FAA and lasers

donjohnston

donjohnston

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"High-powered laser pointers can incapacitate pilots flying airplanes. To combat the threat, Acting FAA Administrator Billy Nolen requested laser manufacturers add a warning label to their packaging to make consumers aware of the safety risks and federal laws when using lasers."

All this time and it never occurred to anybody that all you need to do is just put a label on the laser pointer telling people not to do it? :rolleyes:
 

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I was lazed maybe 9 months ago during a night flight. I didn't realize what it was at first when they were trying to hit me. When they got me and it lit up the cockpit was pretty obvious. It was directed at me from my right side so it was not straight into my face and I did not notice any discomfort with my eyes. I reported it at the time to ATC that I was with for FF. I assume all they could do was warn any other pilots who might happen to be in the area.
 
donjohnston said:
it never occurred to anybody that all you need to do is just put a label on the laser pointer telling people not to do it?
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Its my understanding the label is to assist with the conviction rate similar to some states requiring a tax-stamp on illegal drugs. Whether it will work....
brien23 said:
If and when they catch one, none that I know of have done any serious time in jail, it's a toothless law.
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The law actually has teeth but it tough to find the offender as you mentioned and charge/convict especially if the person dumps the laser. However, there are people currently in jail, some up to 5 years on a laser rap. Those caught usually are darwinian candidates who shine an overhead police helicopter and get filmed walking back into their house. Also same problem with drone offenses.
 
We were hit with a laser coming into FSD a few weeks ago. We circled them and followed them all to way to where they pulled into a subdivision and parked, they continued to hit us with the laser. We were able to tell approach which house, on which road, and roughly the type of car.
I doubt any law enforcement went to go check it out.
 
I saw one report recently where a guy got arrested for lasing aircraft near Long Beach Airport. One of them was a law enforcement helicopter that had what appeared to be some kind of night-vision video camera that made it really obvious where the laser beam was coming from.

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/alleged-serial-laser-pointer-arrested/

Here's a guy who was sentenced to a little over two years in prison:

https://www.turlockjournal.com/news/crime/pointing-laser-helicopter-results-prison-turlock-man/
 
Mongoose Aviator said:
I reported it at the time to ATC that I was with for FF. I assume all they could do was warn any other pilots who might happen to be in the area.
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That’s essentially all that happens. Trying to find the person responsible is like finding a needle in a haystack.
 
Some people are idiots. You get this cool green laser and you start pointing it at things further and further away from you. Hey, look there's a plane way up there, I wonder if I could hit that.

Of course, sometimes the warning labels don't work or worse. I bought a little flexible video camera. Of course, the first thing everybody does it point the thing in their mouth or ear or something, despite the warning not to use it that way. I had one on my desk for a while (one of my employees wanted to borrow it). When people asked I told them it was the new Textron wellness policy... do it yourself colonoscopy.

I bought Margy this Red Devil propane flame thrower for weeding things. In the instructions it warns you "DO NOT APPLY THE FLAME FROM THE TORCH TO THE PROPANE TANK TO BOOST THE PRESSURE." Well, I can't say that I would ever have thought to do that, but we're out in the yard and the tank is starting to peter out, well maybe...
 
How about those Christmas and party decoration scatter laser things that project hundreds of laser points randomly onto your house? Most installations I see miss the house with a good number of the laser passes.
 
Personally, I think that labeling it is just like telling kids not to take candy that is sitting on the table. You know that a certain percentage of them that might not even have come up with the idea will now do so just because. SMH.

If there is no effective method of consistent discovery and prosecution, there is no real deterrent.
 
In EMS it happens quite often. Think it’s because we’re generally lower and noisier than a typical fixed wing GA. I filed one back during the Thanksgiving timeframe but I doubt they found them. Bright green laser while on final for the hospital. I looked straight at it with the NVGs and the whole cockpit glowed green. Annoying but not hazardous. The whole Christmas laser light reporting is ridiculous. Seen hundreds during Christmas time and none of them affect the safety of flight. Seen home LEDs or some of these spot lights that are far brighter than the home Christmas lasers.
 
It’s my understanding that there exists eye protection for law enforcement or military to protect against being lasered. It would be nice if there were some type of glasses or goggles an average pilot could purchase.
 
The cost of a label is essentially zero. If it even reduces the incident rate by a single incident because it reminds some absent minded person “hey you might not be thinking about it with wanting to play with your new toy, but this is a threat to airplanes so just keep that in mind” it was worth it.
 
DMD3. said:
It’s my understanding that there exists eye protection for law enforcement or military to protect against being lasered. It would be nice if there were some type of glasses or goggles an average pilot could purchase.
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Some of the helmets in the military have laser filters. Generally when you see the amber / brown tint, that’s the filtered visor. I had one on my helmet but I was like the only one in my unit to do so. It’s not a requirement. Military NVGs also have a laser interference filter (LIF) to protect the NVGs from green lasers. Used to be a hush hush thing, now it’s commonplace…although not on the NVGs I use for work.
 
AKiss20 said:
The cost of a label is essentially zero. If it even reduces the incident rate by a single incident because it reminds some absent minded person “hey you might not be thinking about it with wanting to play with your new toy, but this is a threat to airplanes so just keep that in mind” it was worth it.
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I think it increases the incident rate.
 
Brad W said:
How about those Christmas and party decoration scatter laser things that project hundreds of laser points randomly onto your house?
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I have one. It will barely hit the very large rocks on the hill across the road from my house, about a half mile. I live just outside the pattern for the airport.

It has a warning against prolonged eye exposure. It also says ''A Class 3R laser is not a skin or materials burn hazard. However, a Class 3R laser can be a distraction, glare or flashblindness hazard for pilots and drivers.'' CYA and all.

I have mine angled towards the ground to illuminate the path between my house and garage. Unless it is snowing, then I angle it upwards for a fantastic light show.
 
DMD3. said:
It would be nice if there were some type of glasses or goggles an average pilot could purchase.
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They make laser safety glasses that anyone can buy. However, they seem to be specific to the laser type. We have some for a laser alignment tool used with some repair work that were fairly inexpensive.
 
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Has a laser ever really incapacitated a pilot?
I'm skeptical that a consumer grade laser pointer from 1000+ feet away could incapacitate anyone even if it met your eyes for more than a millisecond.
No human is capable of hitting your eyes on purpose from any distance long enough to really injure you.

I get that a big green flash on the windshield is distracting.

Once someone on the street shined a green laser at me in my car while I was driving and it scared the **** out of me.
Once I was on final around Halloween and one of those quad spotlights at the Spirit Halloween store hit me and scared the **** out of me.

I am not suggesting it is benign but are there documented cases of this really having disasterous results?

Again. Not saying its nothing. Just a bit skeptical and wonder if there aren't some mountains being made out of mole hills.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Has a laser ever really incapacitated a pilot?
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Yes, with about 30 or so cases requiring medical attention per year. Never heard of any permanent eye damage though. Two pilot aircraft not a big issue but single pilot ops have lead to unplanned RTB or emergency landing due to partial loss of vision. Know 3 EMS pilots who got hit.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Has a laser ever really incapacitated a pilot?
I'm skeptical that a consumer grade laser pointer from 1000+ feet away could incapacitate anyone even if it met your eyes for more than a millisecond.
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Think part of the issue is that consumer grade lasers aren't the issue. It seems you can get some pretty powerful ones like these https://burninglaserpointer.com/lasers-for-sale that go up to 5,000 mW. Think the consumer pointers are like 100mW.
(Rant starting) As an aside, nothing makes my blood boil faster than someone using a laser pointer in a presentation. Write the damn slide so it's clear, don't make circles around your point with a stupid pointer. If it were up to me laser pointers would be outlawed for any use (Rant Over)
 
Sounds like Michigan SP has a good deterrent program, based on the link above. Or if not that, very good at reducing recidivism.
 
Hang 4 said:
(Rant starting) As an aside, nothing makes my blood boil faster than someone using a laser pointer in a presentation. Write the damn slide so it's clear, don't make circles around your point with a stupid pointer.(Rant Over)
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Amen to that!
 
Hang 4 said:
...(Rant starting) As an aside, nothing makes my blood boil faster than someone using a laser pointer in a presentation. Write the damn slide so it's clear, don't make circles around your point with a stupid pointer. If it were up to me laser pointers would be outlawed for any use (Rant Over)
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Maybe conference rooms should be equipped with cats. Or schedule the presentation for "bring your cat to work day."
Personally, despite being a high-tech IT guy, I was a little retro and always used a long elementary school wooden pointer with a black rubber tip. I loved the "TWACK!" it made when smacked against the hanging screen. Woke the sleepers up.
 
Hang 4 said:
(Rant starting) As an aside, nothing makes my blood boil faster than someone using a laser pointer in a presentation. Write the damn slide so it's clear, don't make circles around your point with a stupid pointer. If it were up to me laser pointers would be outlawed for any use (Rant Over)
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Yeah but my cat won't chase a PowerPoint...
 
Hang 4 said:
(Rant starting) As an aside, nothing makes my blood boil faster than someone using a laser pointer in a presentation. Write the damn slide so it's clear, don't make circles around your point with a stupid pointer. If it were up to me laser pointers would be outlawed for any use (Rant Over)
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Talking to a professor where I worked "I don't understand why people use those laser pointers - you can't see them"
He was one of the about 10% of men have some kind of color blindness.
Using red vs. green to distinguish between two choices is an abysmally poor practice.

Back to your regularly scheduled thread, already in progress.
 
Hang 4 said:
(Rant starting) As an aside, nothing makes my blood boil faster than someone using a laser pointer in a presentation. Write the damn slide so it's clear, don't make circles around your point with a stupid pointer. If it were up to me laser pointers would be outlawed for any use (Rant Over)
Click to expand...

pointers have a place in presentations.

for example, when taking questions regarding a diagram, you can point to the part of the diagram being discussed or the part that answers the question being posed.

plus, the laser could be used to take care of hecklers.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/michigan-man-dead-pointing-laser-opening-fire-police-helicopter

If only there had been a warning label on the laser...
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In the months leading to his death, Cousins thought planes and helicopters were the government's way of spying on him — or, on some days, a way of dropping cannabis seeds from the air as a means of confiscating his grandmother's land in Tennessee. He'd shoot at aircraft "to scare them off," his family told the Free Press.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/lo...er-was-supposed-to-get-treatment/70079984007/
 
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