Every now and then you have to hold...

Mistake Not...

Mistake Not...

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Mistake Not...
Working on my instrument rating, but more or less just started. I remember reading on here and other places how holds rarely occur in real life, so I thought this was interesting.

I'm out at the hangar wiping bugs off the plane and listening to my scanner. Approach suddenly announces something like "Attention all aircraft, my screen just froze. Radar service terminated for all aircraft." and then started issuing holds for the instrument stuff (mostly two commercial flights coming into the class C).

It only lasted 15 seconds or so, but the weather was great and traffic was relatively light. I'm guessing had I been on an instrument flight plan I probably wouldn't have been expecting to hold.

How often does this really happen (holding for real)?
 
I've only had my IR for less than a year but I've never received a hold. My instructor says the only time he got a hold was one that he requested. When my dad flies to London, he always gets a hold as it's part of the STAR. He also got one flying back from Madrid to JFK last week battling thunderstorms.
 
Did a hold last night at work, waiting for some fog to clear a little and the AWOS to catch up.

Holds aren't common but, for sure, something you need to have down.
 
Depends a lot on where you fly. Holds are not uncommon in non-radar places. If ATC doesn't have radar to use for "vectors for sequence" for the approach then you can expect holding waiting for your turn.
 
I haven't been put in one, but I'm a low IFR time guy.

I'm sure it will happen sometime in the future.
 
Holds also happen going into major airports, especially when there are thunderstorms. Held as a passenger on Southwest about a month ago because of a thunderstorm over KDEN. Heard them assigning holds the other day but we were going to another airport. I think we hold a few times a year but not often.
 
peerlesscowboy said:
Depends a lot on where you fly. .
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Yep. In SE Asia they are common place. Kuala Lumpur loves to use holds when arriving. Manila is the worst with aircraft holding everywhere in the terminal area and no EFC's.

Singapore and Hong Kong will try to adjust the traffic with airspeed to minimize holds.

In the US northeast corridor during weather it was not uncommon to get a hold while traffic sorted out.
 
If it was a clear VFR day, then those accepting holds were probably the ones that had to stay IFR. Otherwise, all you would have heard was "bugsmasher 12354, cancelling IFR"
 
Other than practice/training, I've only had to hold for real a few times. Some were due to being number 2 or 3 for an approach into an airport and another was waiting for a storm to finish passing through my destination (in visual conditions with a clear out to the south of the weather).
 
I've had to hold many times in 14 years coming into MSP, even in good weather. Sometimes it's just rush hour and the amount of traffic.
 
In the 90's going to Florida there were thunderstorms rolling across KTPA and the airliner had to hold for almost a half hour in a stack. We were below the clouds and fairly low in clear air. This was just after sundown so the roads below were rivers of light for the supper drive time. After the first circuit I began watching the pilots technique. He had it nailed. We rolled in and out of the turns over the same intersections and strip malls every time around. It was before cockpit glass so they were doing it by clock and heading bug and had the wind drift correction dialed in.
I asked the stu to extend my compliments to the cockpit crew for their excellent holding technique. She came back later and said they were blown away that anyone noticed.
 
Not common, but they do happen. Thing is, when they do happen it's often for something non-routine (weather, traffic, plane in front of you gear'ed up and closed the runway, etc.) so it makes sense to practice them so you're not adding an unfamiliar procedure to a non-routine situation...accident chain and all that.

Another common reason, for me at least since I'm based at an uncontrolled field, is the plane in front of me decides to wait until they get the hangar door closed to call and close their flight plan leaving me stuck in the air (Don't be that guy).
 
2 times. One was when there was lightning on the airport(military field so they weren't issuing landing clearances). Started stacking us up at different fixes. Think there were at least 10 aircraft holding in the area waiting to get in. Other time was holding trying to do an approach while waiting for another aircraft to do an approach. If they ever issued it for delays, I would just ask for a speed reduction.
 
So far once, last year. I was shooting the ILS 4 at PHN by myself in actual, and requested the published hold at MARGN. I was cleared for it, and then given an EFC time, which IIRC was 15 minutes. The reason given was traffic on the airway 1000 feet below me, which I did see on ADS-B.
 
Have had to hold several times,due to weather,and traffic. Not a big deal.
 
Once (other than on my instrument checkride when I got one from Bradley Approach due to a runway change). Shortest hold instruction ever: "Hold SE of the Santa Fe VOR. Expect further clearance at XXXX Zulu."
 
If you don't want to hold just bring min fuel ...and be prepared to divert. ;)

In 10,000 hours of flying I'd guess I've been given a real life hold maybe 2 dozen times.
 
The old DPE at MSN once told me, "Anyone who says that small airplanes don't get holds has never tried to fly to northern Wisconsin on a summer Friday." There's a LOT of people from S. WI and Chicagoland who fly everything from single-engine pistons to Gulfstreams into a bunch of airports up there every weekend during the summer. Eagle River in particular is just PACKED with jets on the weekends.

And, it's one-at-a-time. Minneapolis Center's radar coverage only goes down to about 8000 feet up there.
 
It has happened to me 4 times on different IFR flight plans.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Shortest hold instruction ever: "Hold SE of the Santa Fe VOR. Expect further clearance at XXXX Zulu."
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My "shortest" was something like, "Hold west of Harrisburg, I'll get back to you in a minute."

Me: "B-but, I'm already past Harrisburg."

Pause. "Do the best you can."

Needless to say, I didn't much stress out on the proper entry.

dtuuri
 
dtuuri said:
My "shortest" was something like, "Hold west of Harrisburg, I'll get back to you in a minute."

Me: "B-but, I'm already past Harrisburg."

Pause. "Do the best you can."

Needless to say, I didn't much stress out on the proper entry.

dtuuri
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WoW! How's that for a fix!
 
dtuuri said:
My "shortest" was something like, "Hold west of Harrisburg, I'll get back to you in a minute."

Me: "B-but, I'm already past Harrisburg."

Pause. "Do the best you can."

Needless to say, I didn't much stress out on the proper entry.

dtuuri
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I like it! :yes::yesnod:
 
Jaybird180 said:
WoW! How's that for a fix!
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Um, well, he and I both knew he meant "At HAR, west of the VOR". Since I was eastbound and already a couple miles past it he actually said something more like, "Oh I see that now, well just do the best you can." A one-eighty outbound and start timing abeam the fix is all it took to remedy the situation, but it illustrates how these things, when they happen, are usually a sign something unplanned has happened and it's "catch as catch can". :)

dtuuri
 
dtuuri said:
Um, well, he and I both knew he meant "At HAR, west of the VOR". Since I was eastbound and already a couple miles past it he actually said something more like, "Oh I see that now, well just do the best you can." A one-eighty outbound and start timing abeam the fix is all it took to remedy the situation, but it illustrates how these things, when they happen, are usually a sign something unplanned has happened and it's "catch as catch can". :)

dtuuri
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Yes, but that was the worst phraseology that could have caused so much more chatter clarifying exactly what he expected you to do. He could have at least provided a radial.
 
I was issued an NDB hold on my very first IFR cross country! This was about 15 years ago I guess.

I flew from Austin to Port Aransas with my family. When I got there PortA was socked in under a stratus layer. At that time PortA (KRAS) didn't have an instrument approach.

I diverted to nearby Rockport, where there was a classic stack of airplanes holding over the NDB. A textbook scenario!
 
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