European citizen going for FAA ATP

[Vcom]

Hi,

I apologize in advance if this post does not match this forum.

I am a European citizen residing in Belgium.
My goal is clear: get an ATP license.

Obtaining an EASA class 1 medical would be the logical first step for me, but it turned out that I am not medically qualified for an EASA class 1 so an ATPL career in Europe is not possible for me. (At least at this point.)

Recently, I obtained my FAA medical class 1. Now I am trying to gather info on the next steps I need to take to reach my goal. Hopefully, there is someone here that can give me some better insights.

I have no prior flight experience.

Below are some questions I have at the moment:

• Is it possible to obtain FAA licenses while training with a local FAA CFII in Europe?
  
  
• If the above question is 'yes', is it recommended to do the training in the EU, or will training in the U.S. be significantly faster?
  
  
• If I understood correctly, I will need to make (all) the exams on U.S. soil?
  
  
• Eventually, If I were able to obtain the ATP license, I will have to move permanently to the U.S. for employment? Or can you get employed with an FAA ATP and still reside in Europe?
  
  
• Do EU pilots with FAA licenses have any disadvantages towards a U.S pilot with FAA licenses?

If you have any other good insights or tips, feel free to mention them!

Thank you in advance! <3

 

[aterry1067]

There are lots of international students attending flight schools in the US. One of the big schools in this area is Westwind. I’ve heard good things about them. I can’t answer any of your questions, but I’m sure someone there can. Give them a call or send an email.

Just FYI, the desert southwest and Florida are two of the most densely populated areas for GA and flight training.

https://www.westwindaviation.com/international-new


Edit to add: Lufthansa, until recently, had a large flight school operation at Goodyear, KGYR.

 

[MikeNY]

is it recommended to do the training in the EU, or will training in the U.S. be significantly faster?

If weather delays can be avoided by training in AZ or FL, then yes. Flight training should be faster in US than in Europe.
Also consider, costs are higher in EU. (fuel, fees for airports, airspace, clearances and other ATC services, etc.)

Do EU pilots with FAA licenses [certificates] have any disadvantages towards a U.S pilot with FAA licenses?

Yes. Depends where an FAA ATP certificate holder is allowed to work.
For an Airline Transport Pilot seeking work for a US airline, there are USA immigration and visa considerations that would be a disadvantage for an EU national.
For an FAA-issued ATP, initial work experience may be difficult to obtain … outside the US.

I have no flight experience.

As a practical starting point, might consider an intro or discovery flight and a lesson or two at a local flight school near home.

 

[Vcom]

Hi,

Thank you for your helpful replies!

Do you also have an opinion about the scenario below?

I am a European citizen (Belgium). I am not able to obtain an initial EASA class 1 (monocular vision) however, I recently obtained my FAA Class 1 medical.

My goal is to obtain an ATP.

Currently, I am exploring my options on how I should approach my training. I already found out obtaining a VISA in the U.S. is not something you'll easily do.
You can get an F-1 VISA and do your training/flight hours, but after that, your permit to work will eventually end so no guarantees there.

Now, I was wondering, do European pilots with an FAA license (and most importantly, that are only able to get an FAA medical) have an opportunity to work in Europe?
I saw posts mentioning 'ICAO, JAA,..' I am not exactly sure what the exact difference is, but if I understood correctly you can bring an EASA and FAA license under an 'ICAO' license?

To clarify, the real problem I have is not being able to obtain an EASA medical Class 1. But I think I would have no problems doing the theory programs etc...

Imagine an airline accepts an ICAO license, will I be able to work there with an FAA medical and not an EASA one? There are airliners out there in Europe flying with N-reg planes, I could work for those, right?

Are there any people in this forum that know people that had an issue like me?
I am aware my scenario is not common, that's why I have trouble finding accurate information regarding this subject.

TL;DR can you operate in Europe under FAA/EASA regulations when only being able to obtain an FAA Class 1 medical and not an EASA class 1 ?

Thank you in advance for your helpful replies.

Kind Regards,
Andres

 

[MikeNY]

1. do European pilots with an FAA license (and most importantly, that are only able to get an FAA medical) have an opportunity to work in Europe?

For airline pilot employees who live in Europe, they typically work for a European airline.
To work for a European airline, a European ATPL is required (issued by an EASA-member state); they typically operate aircraft registered in an EASA member state (not N registered aircraft).
Formerly, I lived/worked in Belgium and I have never heard of a European airline employing a pilot with only an FAA ATP.
Usually an FAA ATP would need to get a European medical and do a conversion to a European ATPL ... and THAT, is an expensive and significant undertaking.

2. the real problem I have is not being able to obtain an EASA medical Class 1.

Agreed.

3. Imagine an airline accepts an ICAO license, will I be able to work there with an FAA medical and not an EASA one?

ICAO does not issue pilot licenses, pilot certificates, or medical certificates. The aviation authorities of ICAO member states issue those.
There may be non-US airlines which accept an FAA ATP, such as for wide-body aircraft operated by Asian or other non-European carriers. Not sure about cargo operators or private jets.

4. There are airliners out there in Europe flying with N-reg planes, I could work for those, right?

Unlikely. When you see a transport category aircraft with an N registration, at a European airport, they are normally US airline companies, based in the US.
To work for a US airline based in the USA requires a legal right to live and work in the USA.

5. can you operate in Europe under FAA/EASA regulations when only being able to obtain an FAA Class 1 medical and not an EASA class 1 ?

You may be asking the wrong question. It's not "can you operate", it's "can you be employed by an airline i.e. receive compensation" while resident and working in Europe ... with only an FAA ATP certificate.
The answer is normally, no. European carriers employ EASA ATPL pilots, not FAA ATP pilots.

Also consider, with only an FAA ATP certificate, a pilot's first 'airline' job might typically be with a US-based regional carrier, or, a US-based Part 135 operator.
For both of those employers, which are based in the USA, the first question a potential employer asks is "are you a US citizen?" or "do you have a legal right to live and work in the United States?"

TL;DR
What you are asking is probably not possible (or very difficult absent significant flying experience, AFTER you get an FAA ATP), unless you can find a pilot position for an employer in Europe, which is based in Europe (where you have a legal right to live and work in the EU) and operates N-registered aircraft.
Normally, European airline fleets are registered in an EU member state. (i.e. not an N-registered aircraft).

caveat: Not a subject-matter expert and no first-person expertise .... but hope this may help.

A better place to ask questions about employment opportunities in Europe (for an FAA ATP certificate holder), might be with ... an international pilot group (maybe pprune.org forum).
It appears your scenario may not be unique: look here.

or as suggested in previous post ... a flight school which caters to non-US students.
For example, have you contacted Westwind yet?
What did they suggest about employment opportunities for US ATP pilots working for an airline based in Europe?
If you find inaccuracies or corrections for above, please consider sharing.

... and Andres, check the previous post above regarding "I have no flight experience."
Can you visit a flight school at Antwerpen or an airport near you to try one or two flight lessons?
Shouldn't your starting point be to see ... if you like it

regards,
Mike
[ATP, IGI]

 

[Vcom]

Hi Mike,

Thank you for your replies.
I am aware I am asking a lot...

Yes, I did reach out to Westwind but have not yet received a reply however, I took the opportunity to contact other flight schools that do International students. (Pelican Flight training, Phoenix east aviation..)

They replied that they offer F-1 and M-1 VISA's

I describe them as follows:

M-1: Do your training and then go back to your country. - This will be useless for me since I need to build hours after training AND my FAA licenses don't have any use in E.U. (Assumption that I can't convert to EASA because of unable to obtain EASA Class 1 .)

F-1: Below, is a quote of how the flight school described the F-1 visa:

"F1 is the best:

1) It gives you a connection between the flight school and your future airline employment.

2) You will be able to get your training and right after the course completion will start working and earn as a pilot in the United States.

3) You will have the possibility to log up to 1500+ hours (to meet ATP requirements), get up to 2 years of practical experience as a flight instructor and have a chance to join a US regional airline and be sponsored in getting a type rating.

International students studying on F-1, are the only ones that are permitted to apply for official practical training, supported by getting the social security number, and later applying for the OPT working permit.

I mean, I have no issues going to the U.S. to do my flight training and staying there forever to be employed as a U.S. pilot.

The main concern I have is:

What happens after the training? They're talking about work permits, extended stays, etc... but I want to have some kind of guarantee before I commit all my energy and money to flight training. It would be a real bummer that I would have to leave the U.S. after my training and built hours. Keeping in mind that I wouldn't be able to convert to EASA because I am not able to get the class 1 medical.


I found out that you could get A H1B visa if you have a bachelor's degree.
Maybe I should follow a bachelor's degree and training at the same time to improve my chances? But I guess that will pile up the costs a lot...

You said you lived and worked in Belgium for a period, did you return to the U.S. because your permit to work expired, or? (If I may ask)


Regarding the flight lessons, I have been in B737 sims, been flying with local flight schools just for fun.
I have a real 'discovery flight' in Brussels this Saturday as well, and I LIKE it. I am just exploring possible paths.


I mean, as we said before, it's just a huge bummer that I am forced to get FAA licenses since that's the license I am medically qualified for.
I am just trying to already investigate what my options are at the moment!


Thank you!

Andres

 

[MikeNY]

Thanks Andres,

Yes, searching for an alternate path (considering the EASA medical issue) ... doesn't look easy.

It appears you are already aware, the flight school may help for information, but their goal is to take your money for flight training.
Your goal considers, 'what are employment options after training'; can you obtain a visa which will permit working in the US, while training, and after training.

For example, if you become a CFI, could you provide flight training in the US (and earn compensation), while you are training for advanced certificates/ratings, or while building hours?
That is a question you raise which appears critical.

Obtaining an H1 visa on your own could be a challenge.
But if a US employer would sponsor or help you get a visa to work in the USA, that might be an option.

For example, one US regional airline is currently hiring non-US citizen experienced pilots (Australians). The employer takes care of visa/work permit requirements for working in the US.
Likely those work visas for non-US pilots are tied to the employer, so they wouldn't be able to move to a different employer. (a significant benefit for a regional airline, when a pilot cannot change employers).

Best of luck with your continued search for answers (maybe on pprune forum) and hope you will have fun and enjoy your discovery flight at Zaventem!
p.s. Since asked ... with both passports, EU and US citizen, No visa/work permit required.

 

[SkyDog58]

So what condition disqualified you for an EASA medical but was ok for a USA one?

 

[Vcom]

Mikey, thank you!

@SkyDog58. I have monocular vision because of Strabismus. Apparently, this is disqualifying in EASA but not in FAA.

 

[SkyDog58]

Interesting. I thought that would be a no-go for a first or second class and a deferral for a third. I guess the FAA medical isn’t as onerous as we thought.

 

[Vcom]

Interesting. I thought that would be a no-go for a first or second class and a deferral for a third. I guess the FAA medical isn’t as onerous as we thought.

I think it is allowed since +- 2015, not sure.

I have been deferred for my initial Class 1. I had to give all my eye reports including visual field tests etc to the FAA. I had to do a decent amount of examinations for this certificate.
But yeah, the real struggle is not being able to get an EASA 1 as an European

 

[Samsingh]

Hey Andres

Ik ben een student van uit Gent en zit met hetzelfde idee.
Ik ben dan ook aan het kijken voor een FAA licence. Misschien kunnen we samen eens kijken wat de opties zijn want ik struggle er ook zeker mee.

Indien je wilt kan je me mailen op samsingh@live.nl

 

[Jackk]

I think it is allowed since +- 2015, not sure.

I have been deferred for my initial Class 1. I had to give all my eye reports including visual field tests etc to the FAA. I had to do a decent amount of examinations for this certificate.
But yeah, the real struggle is not being able to get an EASA 1 as an European

So you have a FAA class 1?

You’re probably going to need a certificate to match the planes reg, haven’t heard of many airline guys flying EU planes with only FAA certs

 

[Pinecone]

Years ago, while getting my ASES rating, I met an Australian guy who had come over to do his training in the US. He told me, getting to the point he was at (Com ASMEL IA) cost about 25 - 35% of the cost of the same ratings in Australia.

Once he got his US ratings, he was able to do some simple conversion to the equivalent Australian rating (I don't recall what he had to do, but it was not too much).

The thing is, in general your license has to match the registration of the aircraft. So a US ATP would allow you to fly N- registered aircraft. But not Belgian registered aircraft. EU may allow cross flying within EU states.

I know many years ago, I was trying to put together a group flight of aircraft from Lithuania, and one pilot in each aircraft needed to get a Lithuanian license.

 

[Kritchlow]

Perhaps I missed it, but it may be worth repeating…

You can come and train in the US, but you specifically said you want an “ATP”.
That takes experience and time after the CPL. Its not an instant progression as are the other certificates and ratings.

 

[Johnvan]

Obtaining a work visa as a pilot in the US can be difficult, bordering impossible.
Immigrating to Canada is easier. If you speak French, immigration to Quebec will be quickest.
Canada and FAA have reciprocal agreements with licensing.
I used to fly for a Canadian airline in Quebec. Some of the first officers had immigrated from Europe to fly. There is no 1500 rule in Canada so you can fly as a first officer with a commercial license and 250 hours.

 

[Vcom]

Obtaining a work visa as a pilot in the US can be difficult, bordering impossible.
Immigrating to Canada is easier. If you speak French, immigration to Quebec will be quickest.
Canada and FAA have reciprocal agreements with licensing.
I used to fly for a Canadian airline in Quebec. Some of the first officers had immigrated from Europe to fly. There is no 1500 rule in Canada so you can fly as a first officer with a commercial license and 250 hours.

Interesting. Maybe that's a path I can take. So any FAA license would be valid in Canada without getting a separate medical?

I realized that going for ATP is challenging, because of the VISA, etc.. so I decided to take a few steps back and start small and see where we can end.

At the moment I own a valid FAA Class 1.
Currently, I am looking into obtaining an EASA Class 2. (Checking right now if it is possible due to my strabismus, and monocular vision).

I will be doing flight training in the U.S. to obtain an FAA PPL and hopefully convert it to an EASA PPL.
I can fly in Europe In the meantime with the EASA license, build some hours, experience,..

This way I can just chill in my own country.
This will allow me to fly, get experience and give me the time to find out what's possible and realistic for me to go CPL/ATP with my FAA Medical.

Kind regards!