entering airways on 430/530...?

cruiserandmax

cruiserandmax

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cruiserandmax
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I've been flying behind a GNS480 for 10+ years and maybe about to switch to an airplane that has a GNS430. It's common where I fly to get clearances involving multiple airways with many fix turns within each airway. I understand the 430 cannot accept airway input- am I going to be in for a big increase in button pushing?

I read about flightstream- does that actually completely solve that problem?
 
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Adding the flight stream makes single pilot IFR much easier. When I flew behind the 530/430 combo, combined with Foreflight, I could make changes on the go and push them to the GPS.

Adding the Flightstream is the only way to add the airways with all intersections. If not you will chug and plug each route.

I just did the opposite swap with our new to us Commander after our accident in the Debonair.
 
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Yes, the GNSs do not accept airways, so you would need to at least enter the turns along the way. And if you only enter the turns, there's always the possibility of a vector for traffic followed by direct to a fix you have not entered. And yes, as @GMascelli said, one of the advantages of Flightstream is the ability to transfer the entire route between your compatible EFB (Foreflight or Garmin Pilot) and the GNS.

Edit: corrected GTN to GNS. I do that typo so consistently it's scary.
 
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You have to make your flight plan to submit. And make your flight plan for the box.
Using waypoints to define the airway. Not all of them along the way. Watch for the subtle turns at a VOR. Keep in mind if you are asked to establish on an airway. To active the segment it’s “direct direct enter”.
u get used to it.
 
It's really not that big a deal. You have to enter the "dogleg" intersections into the GNS if the airway is not direct between two VORs. If flying VFR (and often IFR in all but the densest part of the air traffic system in the NE) you are going to be able to fly direct-to shortcuts anyway, and if IFR it is almost guaranteed you are going to get some sort of re-route or shortcut enroute. In practice, I write down my clearance on paper, and then enter the first few waypoints into the GNS box prior to takeoff. Additional waypoints can be added in flight as they evolve. I gave up putting the entire flight plan in the GNS-430 ages ago. It never lasts more than 100 miles. I just try to stay a couple of waypoints ahead during flight, plus the destination airport so that the destination approach can be loaded quickly.
 
chemgeek said:
It's really not that big a deal. You have to enter the "dogleg" intersections into the GNS if the airway is not direct between two VORs. If flying VFR (and often IFR in all but the densest part of the air traffic system in the NE) you are going to be able to fly direct-to shortcuts anyway, and if IFR it is almost guaranteed you are going to get some sort of re-route or shortcut enroute. In practice, I write down my clearance on paper, and then enter the first few waypoints into the GNS box prior to takeoff. Additional waypoints can be added in flight as they evolve. I gave up putting the entire flight plan in the GNS-430 ages ago. It never lasts more than 100 miles. I just try to stay a couple of waypoints ahead during flight, plus the destination airport so that the destination approach can be loaded quickly.
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Yeah, but you get spoiled when you can pop that clearance from Raleigh to NY in with only a few strokes.
 
With the 430,530 combo I don’t mind pushing the buttons. ATC likes to change your route on a regular basis.
 
It isn't quite as much button pushing as it is knob twisting. I'm not a big fan of the knob/buttonology of the 430/530, but the best practice is just to enter in fixes where you make turns on the airways and leave out the rest of the airway - unless you have the FS210 and can just use your tablet to act as a virtual GTN.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Yeah, but you get spoiled when you can pop that clearance from Raleigh to NY in with only a few strokes.
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Agreed. Once an owner moves to the next generation of Navigators which accept airways, it's hard to go back. It really is a massive workload reducer for key moments during the flight.

The Flightstream is a nice way to bridge the gap.
 
Did you think going from a 480 to a 430 was an upgrade?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
EdFred said:
Airways? Reroutes?

Signed,

The Deplorables
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There you go again. ;)
Just cause you own the especially desirable Piper Comanche, which leaves the ATC gang in awe, makes the Bo owners envious and you get all the girls doesn't make it socially acceptable to keep flaunting it in public. :cool:
 
Aren't Victor airways VOR to VOR? Plugging in 27 intersections seems repetitive and redundant. Foreflight will have it.. if you get a "direct smwypnt" crank the heading via Foreflight and then Direct Enter Enter once you have it in the 430
 
Tantalum said:
Aren't Victor airways VOR to VOR? Plugging in 27 intersections seems repetitive and redundant. Foreflight will have it.. if you get a "direct smwypnt" crank the heading via Foreflight and then Direct Enter Enter once you have it in the 430
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Not always. Turns on airways also take place at intersections.
 
Tantalum said:
Aren't Victor airways VOR to VOR? Plugging in 27 intersections seems repetitive and redundant. Foreflight will have it.. if you get a "direct smwypnt" crank the heading via Foreflight and then Direct Enter Enter once you have it in the 430
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RNAV navigators that have airways load all waypoints between the first and last airway fixes/waypoints that you designate, subject to the particular navigator's flight plan leg capacity.
 
Tantalum said:
Aren't Victor airways VOR to VOR? Plugging in 27 intersections seems repetitive and redundant. Foreflight will have it.. if you get a "direct smwypnt" crank the heading via Foreflight and then Direct Enter Enter once you have it in the 430
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No, there are turns on airways. Even so, the method you describe may work as sort of a "hack," but it's not an ideal solution especially from an HF perspective (we deal with this in Safety all the time). Easy to plug one thing into one piece of equipment, not the other, get busy and forget which mode the autopilot or other equipment is in.
 
Tantalum said:
Aren't Victor airways VOR to VOR? Plugging in 27 intersections seems repetitive and redundant. Foreflight will have it.. if you get a "direct smwypnt" crank the heading via Foreflight and then Direct Enter Enter once you have it in the 430
Click to expand...
Just noticed the "San Diego Pilot" so, just as an fyi, here's one near you. All of the red is part of V363. That's three turns in that short span between MZB and ELB VORs.

upload_2020-7-26_11-43-7.png
 
Airways? Reroutes? Aren’t Victor airways VOR to VOR?

Yes, being cleared for Victor airways have become a ‘deplorable’ practice mainly limited to congested areas on the coasts. But for those of us flying where most people live have to put up with them.

The 430/530 is yesterday’s industry workhorse. The orphaned 480 was ahead of its time in many ways. New is nice but I love my 430w for providing cheap certified brains for my multi-MFD/PFD experimental panel. Will miss it when pried from my warm arthritic hands.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
Ryan F. said:
No, there are turns on airways. Even so, the method you describe may work as sort of a "hack," but it's not an ideal solution especially from an HF perspective (we deal with this in Safety all the time). Easy to plug one thing into one piece of equipment, not the other, get busy and forget which mode the autopilot or other equipment is in.
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True. Around here we get so many reroutes though that if I'm in a 430 plane I'll diligently put everything in for the first 3rd of it then VOR - VOR it or at least base it off the turns. When I'm sitting in cruise I can plop the rest in if I haven't been rerouted yet

But yes, that's the biggest "issue" I have with the 430. And the reason why I *never* use vector-to-final when loading procedures.. at least that plots all the points in if you start from an IAF
 
Tantalum said:
True. Around here we get so many reroutes though that if I'm in a 430 plane I'll diligently put everything in for the first 3rd of it then VOR - VOR it or at least base it off the turns. When I'm sitting in cruise I can plop the rest in if I haven't been rerouted yet

But yes, that's the biggest "issue" I have with the 430. And the reason why I *never* use vector-to-final when loading procedures.. at least that plots all the points in if you start from an IAF
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Understood on all points. I flew behind a KLN-94 for years and had to deal with everything you describe, so I certainly get it!

The GTN650 was probably the best single upgrade I've ever made to my old bird. Across the board, the capability, ease of use, decreased workload, and integration with the iPad just really moved my plane into the 21st century. But it's certainly possible to keep soldiering on without these capabilities. It's just more work.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Just noticed the "San Diego Pilot" so, just as an fyi, here's one near you. All of the red is part of V363. That's three turns in that short span between MZB and ELB VORs.

View attachment 88241
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In the last 300 hours I've always been given V23. But point taken, obviously if I'm looking at the route on Foreflight and I see non VOR turns I'll load those into the 430.. but if I'm on V23 I'll leave out KELPS.. for example
 
Tantalum said:
In the last 300 hours I've always been given V23. But point taken, obviously if I'm looking at the route on Foreflight and I see non VOR turns I'll load those into the 430.. but if I'm on V23 I'll leave out KELPS.. for example
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I agree, with the GNS,we make those kinds of choices. When I fly with a GNS, and don't have EFB transfer ability, I do the same. It's not that big a deal. Getting a "Direct" to a waypoint we haven't already loaded in the unit just means entering it. BTDT.

OTOH, given the choice between figuring out which of the 20 points (including 6 VOR) along V16 between RIC and JFK (standard routing from Richmond VA to NYC) are "significant" enough to load individually and telling my panel "RIC V16 JFK," I know which one I would opt for ;) :D It was I meant by "getting spoiled"
 
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Tantalum said:
Aren't Victor airways VOR to VOR? Plugging in 27 intersections seems repetitive and redundant. Foreflight will have it.. if you get a "direct smwypnt" crank the heading via Foreflight and then Direct Enter Enter once you have it in the 430
Click to expand...

Nope. Lots of doglegs in airways. Most are obvious. Some, like V14 from GGT to ALB are more subtle to see. The only intersection you have to enter for airways that are not direct routes between VORs is where the track changes.
 
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