Employer-provided sick time

[BrianR]

Every year around this time, the number of nurses calling in sick at the hospital where I work increases exponentially. Even accounting for the influenza and other seasonal illnesses, it's a dramatic increase over the baseline.

Many of them are surprisingly open about how they are "using up" their employer-provided sick time prior to year's end.

Now, to my way of thinking, sick time is for when you're, ummmm...sick. (I would include the need to stay home and care for a sick child in the acceptable use category.) But it seems the vast majority of nurses, under 40 years of age, view sick time as simply an entitlement, another form of paid time off to use as they see fit. And this is in an environment where they are already provided with standard, if not generous, paid time off in the form of vacation, holiday and personal time.

Meanwhile, these nurses are the first ones to run crying to their union reps if they think the hospital is trying to take advantage of them in any way. And yet, they feel no remorse over taking advantage of the hospital and costing it revenue and frustration in trying to replace them at the last minute.

Were I an administrator (I am in clinical practice), I would simply move to eliminate paid sick time...which some hospitals have done. But when I mention my observations to my administrative friends, they just roll their eyes, shrug and say, "Well, yeah, but what can you do?"

I was taught as a child that sick time was only used if you were ill enough to be hospitalized, or were lying next to the toilet vomiting, or had something horribly contagious. Otherwise, you sucked it up and showed up when you were scheduled. Until I entered the workforce, I just thought most people believed similarly.

Having spent my entire professional life in hospitals, I wonder if this phenomenon is as common in other industries? While I'm sure there are always a few people who will abuse benefits, I'll venture to say that 75% or more of the under-40 nurses at my hospital do this blatantly and repeatedly. Is this a nurse thing? A young person trait? Or, as I suspect, just another sign of the entitlement society so prevalent in the U.S.?

 

[jesse]

I was taught as a child that sick time was only used if you were ill enough to be hospitalized, or were lying next to the toilet vomiting, or had something horribly contagious. Otherwise, you sucked it up and showed up when you were scheduled. Until I entered the workforce, I just thought most people believed similarly.

That's what I used to think. Now I'm come to the conclusion that it's just really stupid to go to work when you're sick (even if you could work) where you'll just get everyone else sick and be trying to work in a state where your brain is barely turning. I've found I'm much better off to stay home..get some sleep..and be back at my full speed in short-order versus stretching it out over a week and getting half the office sick.

Things like colds are something I'd have never considered staying home for in the past. Now I've noticed how I can pretty much beat them in a day if I just get some sleep versus a week or longer. I'll take that day of sleep. The end result is more efficient.

Granted my world is a bit different. If things need to be done I'm not going to skip work or go on vacation. I'll do that when there is a bit of down-time.

 

[Marauder]

We eliminated sick time years ago. Now use flexible time off, 5 days of which are allocated towards sick time. If you do get sick, the first 5 days are applied before short term disability kicks in.

What you are describing is the way we did things 30 years ago.

 

[bqmassey]

Maybe it's a psychological thing.

Give someone 10 days of vacation time... they're probably going to schedule a 10 day vacation and come to work when they're sick. Give someone 5 days vacation and 5 days of "sick time" (even if loosely enforced), they'll probably use a sick day when they're sick.

Just a guess.

 

[Doggtyred]

Every year around this time, the number of nurses calling in sick at the hospital where I work increases exponentially. Even accounting for the influenza and other seasonal illnesses, it's a dramatic increase over the baseline.

Many of them are surprisingly open about how they are "using up" their employer-provided sick time prior to year's end.

Now, to my way of thinking, sick time is for when you're, ummmm...sick. (I would include the need to stay home and care for a sick child in the acceptable use category.) But it seems the vast majority of nurses, under 40 years of age, view sick time as simply an entitlement, another form of paid time off to use as they see fit. And this is in an environment where they are already provided with standard, if not generous, paid time off in the form of vacation, holiday and personal time.

Meanwhile, these nurses are the first ones to run crying to their union reps if they think the hospital is trying to take advantage of them in any way. And yet, they feel no remorse over taking advantage of the hospital and costing it revenue and frustration in trying to replace them at the last minute.

Were I an administrator (I am in clinical practice), I would simply move to eliminate paid sick time...which some hospitals have done. But when I mention my observations to my administrative friends, they just roll their eyes, shrug and say, "Well, yeah, but what can you do?"

I was taught as a child that sick time was only used if you were ill enough to be hospitalized, or were lying next to the toilet vomiting, or had something horribly contagious. Otherwise, you sucked it up and showed up when you were scheduled. Until I entered the workforce, I just thought most people believed similarly.

Having spent my entire professional life in hospitals, I wonder if this phenomenon is as common in other industries? While I'm sure there are always a few people who will abuse benefits, I'll venture to say that 75% or more of the under-40 nurses at my hospital do this blatantly and repeatedly. Is this a nurse thing? A young person trait? Or, as I suspect, just another sign of the entitlement society so prevalent in the U.S.?

I work in a right to work state... One of the solutions one major hospital chain implemented was that if you took sick during the week of thanksgiving or the two week period surrounding xmas/new years, a doctors note and visit was required even if only one day was missed, counter to the three day minimum traditionally encountered during the rest of the year.

If you miss a required weekend or holiday you are immediately scheduled to work the next open weekend or holiday.

The other solutions included abolishing separate PTO and Vacation banks and integrating them into one time bank for use as desired.

The abuse patterns I observed were not age related, nor race related.

 

[TMetzinger]

My employer gives us a certain amount of discretionary time off that expires at the end of the year, and then earned vacation that doesn't expire until some maximum limit is reached. The discretionary time off is there to cover holidays and sick days.

All of this time off is considered a benefit - and it's stupid for an employee to leave any of that expiring DTO on the table at the end of the year. That's just giving something away.

Now the way our timekeeping system works is that if you don't have a fully allocated time sheet (80 hours), it will automatically make up the difference from your DTO first, and then from your vacation time when your DTO is exhausted. You can manually mark time as "vacation" and save the DTO, but very few folks do that. They use their DTO through the year for holidays and vacation and when it's gone they use their vacation time for other absences, whether it's a holiday or an illness or just a day off.

Now, ensuring the work gets done during holidays is a function of management. That varies based on the industry - some industries are closed for the holidays, while of course the OP's sector (Health Care) is not.

 

[jhausch]

I like the PTO model. Give new hires an initial credit; earn the future time as you work. Use it as you will. Allow it carry over and limit max accrual. Always requires supervisor approval and days off are "first come, first served" with exception to allow for rotation on the holiday days off. There will always be people who always "use up" their accrual so when really sick, they might be out of time. Maybe a rule can be set up where one day must carry over every year or "something" (trying to think of a way to make sure there is always at least one sick day at the ready.....)

One other thing: the company should actually be accounting/accruing the $ for the time. That helps dispel the idea that they are "taking" from the company. The $ is theirs, they earned it, they use it, and if they leave they can get paid out for it.

 

[Bob Noel]

I dispise the PTO model. Sick time should not be a vested right, that is, if you are sick, then you use sick time. If you aren't sick, then you don't use it. I'm not fond of using vacation time because I'm sick.

Do-nothing managers love the PTO model because then they don't have to figure out if an employee is faking it and the manager doesn't have to, you know, manage.

 

[ClimbnSink]

Just people responding to incentives. No doubt when they were hired sick days were touted as a benefit/compensation. It is not evil or unmoral it is the way the rules are written. Change it around and people will respond differently. Some employees bank sick/holiday time for decades and retire with a chunk of change. Other people have to hustle to get in vacation time because it doesn't roll over, same stuff different name.

 

[JOhnH]

I dispise the PTO model. Sick time should not be a vested right, that is, if you are sick, then you use sick time. If you aren't sick, then you don't use it. I'm not fond of using vacation time because I'm sick.

Do-nothing managers love the PTO model because then they don't have to figure out if an employee is faking it and the manager doesn't have to, you know, manage.

I offer and prefer the PTO model. Why should some people get paid the same for not coming in as other people that do come in every day. The downside for me is that we schedule around staff availability. If someone is scheduled out we my pare the schedule a bit. If someone calls in sick and we have a full schedule, then everyone else has to pick up their slack.

And I like not having to challenge people and prove they are not lying about being sick. If I wasn't the owner, I would probably call in sick occasionally just to enjoy life. They are people. Not robots.

There is no carry over. Near the end of the year, I pay all unused time off in the paycheck just before Christmas. I think it is fair, and the people that come to work every day get a nice little chunk of change, on top of any Christmas bonus I pay.

 

[ClimbnSink]

I offer and prefer the PTO model. Why should some people get paid the same for not coming in as other people that do come in every day. The downside for me is that we schedule around staff availability. If someone is scheduled out we my pare the schedule a bit. If someone calls in sick and we have a full schedule, then everyone else has to pick up their slack.

And I like not having to challenge people and prove they are not lying about being sick. If I wasn't the owner, I would probably call in sick occasionally just to enjoy life. They are people. Not robots.

There is no carry over. Near the end of the year, I pay all unused time off in the paycheck just before Christmas. I think it is fair, and the people that come to work every day get a nice little chunk of change, on top of any Christmas bonus I pay.

Sounds sensible to me, fair and as important treating people as adults.

 

[jhausch]

There is no carry over. Near the end of the year, I pay all unused time off in the paycheck just before Christmas. I think it is fair, and the people that come to work every day get a nice little chunk of change, on top of any Christmas bonus I pay.

Nice idea.

 

[ja_user]

We don't get a certain amount of sick time, it is short term disability (so it depends on how long you have been here to get 100% pay), after 5days there is some insuance paperwork..

But we have the same issue at the end of the year, everyone trying to burn vacation since they can't roll it over... And since they all burn vacation 1-2 weeks at a time around Xmas, no one takes vacation again until about May.. A never-ending cycle..

 

[Matthew]

I worked at one place that had a use it or lose it policy for vacation days, and everyone in the company was on the same schedule. I can't remember, but I think it was the last day of May that was the last chance to use vacation - so everyone in the company would try to take vacation at the same time. They finally changed that to where even though it was still use it or lose it, at least it rolled around on your anniversary. Sick leave didn't carry over, but they kept close track of how often you used it and you'd get to explain yourself if you used too much, too often.

Another place did allow for vacation to carry over, up to a maximum. Sick days could also roll over and were worth cash if you left the company, but they didn't accrue very quickly. Then they stopped giving sick days and went to PTO instead (still keeping the vacation days). The PTO also carried over and didn't accrue very quickly, but it all gets forfeited if you left the company. I think the company liked it better that way because it didn't have to account for all that unused sick time on the books.

No matter what kind of days off you offer, people will always work the system - hopefully, not too many at one time so it doesn't cause interference with getting the job done.

 

[Everskyward]

I'm an employee and I prefer the PTO model. Everything (holidays, vacation, sick) is lumped together. We don't lose it all at the end of the year but can only have a year's worth banked.

 

[ja_user]

My neighbor works at a place that apparently didn't like to have to manage people, so to keep down the conflicts decided that all vacation expires November 15th, and you don't earn anymore until Jan1st... No possibility of taking vacation or anything else for the 6 weeks around the HOliday's..

It is a local hospital..

I would be happy to not use all my vacation, if they would just cut me a check at my normal daily rate... We can technically sell itback to them, but we have to elect to do this during open enrollment, they cap the daily rate fairly low, and then they spread it over 26 paychecks..

 

[ScottK]

When I first started at my job, we had 10 vac day, 2 personal days and 5 sick days. About 10 years ago, they changed it to a PTO system. Now we just get 17 days of PTO and can carry over 5 days into the next year.

 

[Gerhardt]

As for the theme of people taking sick leave just because they can, that's not just kids today. That's been going on since before I was born.

I used to enjoy a short-lived TV show Homefront, that took place just after WW II. One of the things that still stands out today was a comment by the factory owner. "They want what? Paid for NOT coming to work when they're sick?" I don't think enough people today appreciate just how much we have that our grandparents didn't.

 

[Marauder]

I don't think enough people today appreciate just how much we have that our grandparents didn't.

Or even our parents My Dad was injured in an industrial accident in the early 60s. No workman comp, no insurance and a "when you get better, we'll see if we have a job for you" from his employer.

I remember looking through garbage and collecting bottles on the side of the road for bread money when that happened. We've come a long way, even from 50 years ago.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

The company I work for just went through a merger, in which the acquiring company just eliminated our sick time. I'm not to happy about it, but what are you going to do about it?

 

[DeeG]

We earn 8 hours sick time per month. If you use no sick time from Jan 1 - June 30, you earn one 'wellness day' that you can use as a vacation day. You can earn a second if you don't use any sick time from July 1 - Dec 31. We also get one 'personal day' per year. It comes out of our sick leave bank, but isn't considered a sick day.

You are sick more than 3 days in a row, you have to have a doctors note when you return.

I've used 1 hour of sick time since Jan 2011. And I've never used a personal day. I get really irritated at my co workers that abuse their sick time. Their shift must be covered, so if they call out sick, and the time isn't covered voluntarily, other people have to mandated to cover it. If you are truly sick, please stay home. But to use it because you just don't want to go to work and you can't get the day off......gggrrrrrrrrr......

I always think about what would happen if I got hurt and had to take an extended time off work. I have enough in my bank to cover about 3 months. I have co workers who have zero. Scary thought if they were to get into a bad car accident, or came down with a bad flu or something. I have one co-worker who's daughter is going have a kidney transplant next year and she is the donor. She's like me. She never calls in sick and despises those that use sick time like vacation time. She'll have plenty of sick time to cover the time off that she'll need to donate her kidney and recover.

 

[JimNtexas]

I'm lucky to work in a software company that is a results oriented workplace. We have no fixed vacation, sick time, personal days, or office hours. Nobody's attendance is formally tracked at all.

Teams and management agree on goals and schedules, then each employee works with his team to take the time off that he or she needs while ensuring that the goals of the team are achieved.

This system works amazingly well, so well that we have almost no attrition and we have as good or better record of on time delivery as any software company that uses the 18th century factory worker model of management.

People really value freedom.

From a corporate point of view, it takes a big liability off the books, since there is no accrued vacation owed to anybody.

It would be harder to have our kind of system in a retail type setting, but I think even there something like ROWE could be implemented.

 

[guardrail]

My company offers rediculous amounts of time off in my opinion. Lower tier employees get 120 hours of vacation time and 80 hours of sick with up to 8 of those can be converted to "personal" days. It's such a convoluted system that I never cared to track time type and just put the onus on the employees to properly manage their usable days. I would give them monthly stats on what they had left because inevitably there would be people who would run out the full 200 hours in the first 6 months of the year.

Interesting note, most of the lower tier employees always seemed to run all of their time out by the end of the year. Those that did had a very "entitled" view to it and since it was a company policy, I didn't really mind, only mildly annoyed when they all would try to take the same time off (like the week of xmas). Upper tier employees never seemed to use all their time, and rarely would they use ANY sick time. True they would get an extra 30 hours of vacation, but most would end the year with a significant amount of time off.

I've personally never used my sick time, ever. Most of my years end with giving back ~100 hours to the company. I get a lot of slack on afternoons here and there so I make sure I balance it out. To me it's a work ethic thing, having that much time off seems excessive to me, as my kids get old that thought may change though.

Interesting rant, but along the same topic, I had one employee that went out on 3mos (paid) Paternity leave and returned to work in late November to then try to take his remaining two weeks of vacation before the end of the year. I could never live with myself asking for 2 weeks off after I just got a 12 week paid leave of absence...

 

[saracelica]

I get 200 hours of PTO time off (5 weeks) which is maxed out. Our boss wonders why work doesn't get done. She has alot of employees working here a long time and we all have 5 weeks to burn. I try hard to save 40 hours for the month of December. I don't enjoy driving in snow and so if we get 6 inches here in NWOhio I'm using my PTO time. Any time that doesn't get used gets rolled over to the next year as sick time. Which is fine but some people have built that up quite a bit. If they ever get let go it does NOT get paid out. Suckers!

 

[TommyG]

I learned years back from an old retired man that was my neighbor, he said no man has ever been on thier death bed and wished they worked more!!!!
So when it comes time on a nice summer day and the family want to spend the day at the beach or go to a theme park. I will use a sick day. I dont go crazy and use them all up in case I do get sick. But in the end, it's those days I called in and had a great day with the family, in my eyes they are memorable and worth it.

Second, I get ****ed off when someone comes in sick, sneezing and coughing because its always getting spread around.

 

[fgcason]

This thread is crazy talk. Getting paid to sit on one's butt and not even show up at work. Sheesh.

"They want what? Paid for NOT coming to work when they're sick?"

That's pretty much my operational behavior as an employee in today's world.
I guess I started out working at the wrong companies that treated people very badly for wanting to take time off work for any reason even when their policy said vacation blah blah nonsense. The stress and consequences of asking for time off was worse than the possible advantage of getting the time off. Heck, I got sacked for it once early on the very first time I ever asked for time off even without pay. Since then vacations and sick time has been time between jobs, not while employed. I have never had a paid sick day (and very few unpaid sick days) and never had a vacation day in 30 years of work...not many vacations either... I don't even know what the vacation policy is where I'm working now..I just daydreamed while they were blithering on about it...I guess they have one since other people tend to not show up for work for a week or two at a time occasionally then come back to work.

 

[guardrail]

I learned years back from an old retired man that was my neighbor, he said no man has ever been on thier death bed and wished they worked more!!!!
So when it comes time on a nice summer day and the family want to spend the day at the beach or go to a theme park. I will use a sick day. I dont go crazy and use them all up in case I do get sick. But in the end, it's those days I called in and had a great day with the family, in my eyes they are memorable and worth it.

Second, I get ****ed off when someone comes in sick, sneezing and coughing because its always getting spread around.

You don't have any morality issue with using a sick day when you're not sick? I guess my question is more that you don't have a morality issue with lying to your employer?

 

[Ghery]

I get "about" 4 weeks of vacation time a year. The company says "about" as you can, theoretically, negotiate with your manager if you need an extra day or so for some reason. It is all "use or lose" each year. Nothing can be carried over to the next year. But, the full 4 weeks are available on January 1. I don't know what they would do if you took the first 4 weeks of the year off and then quit. I haven't considered such a stunt.

Sick leave isn't tracked for salaried exempt employees. If you are sick, stay home. I suspect if I were out for an extended period there would be paperwork for short term disability and the like. The one time I was out for 3 weeks was due to surgery and I worked from home. My job really only requires a phone and a good internet connection.

Non-exempt employees earn a certain amount of sick leave per pay period and can cash it in if they want. Once they have 40 hours of sick leave banked any that they cash out is at time and a half. My son is a technician and has this approach to sick leave. He isn't to the 40 hour number yet, and I will suggest to him that letting it increase without limit is a wise thing to do. I still haven't figured out how to predict the future.

Employers seem to have different ways of dealing with vacation and sick leave. Employees can take it or leave it. Not always easy, but you aren't required to work for a particular employer if you don't like their policies.

 

[wsuffa]

My employer is on a PTO model - it really sucks for new employees who get very little time the first year. A few days of being sick and you basically get no vacation. The policy grants your allotted time as of Jan 1 (with proration during your first year), and then "accrues" against that allotted time as you go on. If you decide to resign (or they fire you), you have to pay them back for any time you've taken but has not accrued. Oh, and you can carry over no more than 40 yours year to year (or else you get less time the following year).

The policy encourages folks to work when sick (especially folks in the first few years).....

 

[guardrail]

I get "about" 4 weeks of vacation time a year. The company says "about" as you can, theoretically, negotiate with your manager if you need an extra day or so for some reason. It is all "use or lose" each year. Nothing can be carried over to the next year. But, the full 4 weeks are available on January 1. I don't know what they would do if you took the first 4 weeks of the year off and then quit. I haven't considered such a stunt.

Our policy is you pay it back, paychecks run on a delay so they can recoup funds if necessary...

 

[numl0ck]

For me vacation is earned monthly and you can borrow against the future. For an employee of less than 10 years you get 80 hours, 10-20 years 120 hours and 20+ gets you 160 hours. You can only carry over up to your total allotment. That part sucks. I lost a week of vacation when I changed jobs (from 3 weeks to 2 weeks). However, now I have some 50+ days of "sick time" per year. I don't get to keep them, but they are mine to spend as I see fit except for an obvious vacation. I usually burn about 5 per year. Some people use them all. We had one guy get fired because he used up all his sick and vacation time and then asked for more time off - he had "missed" about 3 months of work, only showing up 2-3 times per week, before they finally let him go.

I was taught like the OP, sick time is for when you're sick and not just for a random day off here and there. At the same time, like Jessie, I will take a day off to help me recover faster and not spread germs around the office.

 

[RJM62]

I worked at one place where at the end of the year unused sick / personal /vacation days were carried over into a "fund" of sorts that could be used for extended illnesses, if need be; but which otherwise would be used as extra severance pay upon retirement or leaving the firm.

The way it worked was simple. When you left, they paid you for the unused days, either as a lump sum or any other way you liked -- at your then-current rate of pay -- so you actually made a little money by not using the sick days. Most people took the lump sum payment, but the company would distribute the money to you any way you liked.

We received two weeks vacation and six sick / personal days every year. By the end of my five years there, I'd used a grand total of five weeks vacation and one sick day. I got quite a nice severance check when I left.

-Rich

 

[Matthew]

All this talk got me looking at my vac amount. I accrue so many hours each pay period, up to a maximum amount. I can carry over some hours from year to year, but there is an upper limit. I'm usually right at that upper limit, so each time I get too close to topping out I take an afternoon or a day off. I just realized that I topped out again, so I'll take Friday off and maybe go flying.

 

[DaytonaLynn]

About six years ago my company took the sick and added to the vacation. That eliminated the sick days and the end of year vanishing employee. This way you could carry over PTO days up to 10 and had over three weeks vacation for new hires.
Of course we werent union.

Every year around this time, the number of nurses calling in sick at the hospital where I work increases exponentially. Even accounting for the influenza and other seasonal illnesses, it's a dramatic increase over the baseline.

Many of them are surprisingly open about how they are "using up" their employer-provided sick time prior to year's end.

Now, to my way of thinking, sick time is for when you're, ummmm...sick. (I would include the need to stay home and care for a sick child in the acceptable use category.) But it seems the vast majority of nurses, under 40 years of age, view sick time as simply an entitlement, another form of paid time off to use as they see fit. And this is in an environment where they are already provided with standard, if not generous, paid time off in the form of vacation, holiday and personal time.

Meanwhile, these nurses are the first ones to run crying to their union reps if they think the hospital is trying to take advantage of them in any way. And yet, they feel no remorse over taking advantage of the hospital and costing it revenue and frustration in trying to replace them at the last minute.

Were I an administrator (I am in clinical practice), I would simply move to eliminate paid sick time...which some hospitals have done. But when I mention my observations to my administrative friends, they just roll their eyes, shrug and say, "Well, yeah, but what can you do?"

I was taught as a child that sick time was only used if you were ill enough to be hospitalized, or were lying next to the toilet vomiting, or had something horribly contagious. Otherwise, you sucked it up and showed up when you were scheduled. Until I entered the workforce, I just thought most people believed similarly.

Having spent my entire professional life in hospitals, I wonder if this phenomenon is as common in other industries? While I'm sure there are always a few people who will abuse benefits, I'll venture to say that 75% or more of the under-40 nurses at my hospital do this blatantly and repeatedly. Is this a nurse thing? A young person trait? Or, as I suspect, just another sign of the entitlement society so prevalent in the U.S.?

 

[N801BH]

I have been "Self Employed" for 30 years.....

What is this paid sick days, paid personal days, paid vacation stuff

 

[Bob Noel]

I have been "Self Employed" for 30 years.....

What is this paid sick days, paid personal days, paid vacation stuff

And don't forget how sweet it is to have Jury duty when you are self-employed. (>-{

 

[SCCutler]

My policy is, if you're sick, you miss work and (generally) you're paid. If you have excessive "sick" days, we talk about it. If it continues, odds are you're not sticking around.

Vacation, we expect people to take; everyone needs some time off / time away, and it is "restorative." It must be scheduled in advance, so we don't have an "everyone gone" time, and it does not add up; don't use, you lose (we have some flex to accommodate unusual circumstances). Our folks generally do a pretty good job, and when they are here and there's a lot of work to do, they pitch and get it done.

One overarching policy: vacation is a benefit for employees, not additional pay you accrue, so you must be employed both before *and* after vacation; there's no giving two-weeks' notice and saying, and I now start my two week vacation. Had an employee who went off on vacation (duly scheduled), payday was two days into it, so her daughter came by to pick up the paycheck. When, the next Monday, I came in, the employee did not, having come by over the weekend to leave her card and key, along with a note saying how someone had met her during the week and offered her a job closer to home, and she had to be close to son's school, etc.

Next payday, she calls up and asks about collecting her paycheck for the remaining three days of her vacation; I reminded her that she got to me for two days of employee benefit to which she was not entitled, she was not getting paid more money not to work.

Of course, by then, I had come across the fax logs from her sending her resumes out to prospective employers (including the one she went with) on company time and with company equipment.

Good times.

 

[N801BH]

And don't forget how sweet it is to have Jury duty when you are self-employed. (>-{

Oh geez.... I almost forgot about that financial fiasco..

 

[TMetzinger]

I offer and prefer the PTO model. Why should some people get paid the same for not coming in as other people that do come in every day. The downside for me is that we schedule around staff availability. If someone is scheduled out we my pare the schedule a bit. If someone calls in sick and we have a full schedule, then everyone else has to pick up their slack.

And I like not having to challenge people and prove they are not lying about being sick. If I wasn't the owner, I would probably call in sick occasionally just to enjoy life. They are people. Not robots.

There is no carry over. Near the end of the year, I pay all unused time off in the paycheck just before Christmas. I think it is fair, and the people that come to work every day get a nice little chunk of change, on top of any Christmas bonus I pay.

I like that way of doing it.

I don't like the traditional sick leave model - it penalizes folks who are healthy and don't use it.

 

[denverpilot]

PTO model everywhere I've been for a decade or more. Sick. Vacation. Whatever... All the same.

80 hours right now. Had 200 a year from time in service at the last place and bought back some of it every year because I couldn't take it. Carried some over too. Wish I could get that again. This place allows 16 hours of carryover.

Frankly, boss knows it sucks compared to the industry and has made special arrangements for me to be "working remotely" from time to time. All of his staff actually. We don't abuse it.

Friend from Australia and I were talking about his and his wife's extensive travel. I see his monster trips and photos on social media and wondered how he does it.

It's because he has ten weeks or more of vacation time per year PLUS sick time. Five weeks required by Australian law.

He works for a division of HP who's definitely paid by your U.S. taxpayer dollar. They fly him from Oz to the U.S. multiple times per year, too.

Americans are poorly-traveled and generally ignorant of the rest of the world, partly because we as a "puritanical" culture, don't provide ourselves (or staff) time for month long trek overseas -- on top of little vacations of a week or so to recharge.

His last two trips were the Amazon with a week deep into the rainforest, and a two week whirlwind European romp.

I lamented with him that there's not a snowball's chance in hell that Karen and I will ever be able to do that -- unless we save up and ask for extended unpaid leave from our employers, or just flat out quit.