Electronic checklist

cocolos

cocolos

Pre-takeoff checklist
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cocolos
Any of you use a ipad/iphone app for your checklist? If so what do you use?


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I don't and wouldn't. I am starting to doubt my choice to move full electronic as far as sectionals go since you are always tied to a power plug or portable battery which kinda defeats the purpose.

If you do use an electronic checklist, have a paper backup in the plane as well. I just find them kinda clunky compared to a regular paper one that you can quickly stash under your leg.
 
I like paper too for checklist...safer IMO since you can see the whole thing and less chance of getting "lost" ....this is especially important for Emergency Checklist .
Not everything needs to be digital and this is a perfect example.
 
I use my iPad and iPhone for a good bit of stuff in the cockpit, but I don't use them for checklists and I always carry paper backup charts. I prefer the laminated cards for checklists, as they don't blow around and I can toss them up onto the glareshield for easy access.
 
I have the paper checklist in a pocket right next to me, however I do use Foreflight's checklist app as well. It's functional, but I really wish they would integrate it into the main app.

I find with a paper checklist, I tend to rush things and maybe even miss items. With the electronic one, I have to actually tap each item as its completed and that is better for me.
 
Yup...I created my own checklist then saved it as a PDF. I have a page for each phase of preflight and flight with my own flow that works for me and my plane. Even have a page for IFR procedures. It is stored in "documents" in Foreflight on both my IPad and IPhone. Love it.

I do keep the standard stock flip chart type checklist still however in my glove box in case of emergency.
 
I like my iPad mini for lots of reasons, checklists are not one of them.

Checklist should be one piece, folded long ways and laminated. I keep mine under my right leg when I'm flying.

I do keep the pdf of that list in foreflight, but it's just because that's a safe place to store it should I need to print up a new one.


Digital checklist... Sounds like someone trying to be too digital.

Also multi page checklists, trim the fat down, complex turbine aircraft use that one folded sheet method just fine, a small GA plane should need a multi page list, it's a check list not a do list, build some good flows and just use the list to confirm after your flow. YMMV.
 
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I have not yet seen an electronic checklist (as opposed to my "paper" checklist in a electronicly viewable format, which I do use) that was far more trouble to me than it was worth.

but that's personal and I know pilots who like them.
 
James331 said:
Also multi page checklists, trim the fat down, complex turbine aircraft use that one folded sheet method just fine, a small GA plane should need a multi page list, it's a check list not a do list, build some good flows and just use the list to confirm after your flow. YMMV.
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MV.

I actually started to find my checklists getting longer when I moved them to my iPad. With space and bulk and turning pages no longer an issue, moving the same stuff (or less; each version of my basic personal checklist has been more consolidated than the previous one) into phase of flight pages accessible by sliding my finger across a page made them far more ergonomic and useful. Although I admit my jury is still out on what I'll do next round.

Like you I primarily use flows and back (or forward) them up with the checklist.
 
I highly modify my standard checklists. For example, I include items like "verify pax headsets are working" and "set climate control" to avoid the distraction of pax bitching that their headsets don't work or that they're not getting air right after rotation.

This is based on experience.... !
 
midlifeflyer said:
I have not yet seen an electronic checklist (as opposed to my "paper" checklist in a electronicly viewable format, which I do use) that was far more trouble to me than it was worth.

but that's personal and I know pilots who like them.
Click to expand...

The one on the 777 is very good. It senses switch position so if it is configured correctly it doesn't bother. It also can prioritize emergency irregular checklists.

Of course that is an apples to oranges comparison.
 
dans2992 said:
"verify pax headsets are working"...

This is based on experience.... !
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This is where I like my multi page digital copy. I have a page for when I have PAX that covers thing like the safety brief to the PPT switch and climate controls. If I don't have PAX, I just skip that page.

Mine is "Turn on PAX Headset ANR" on my checklist...have forgotten many times to have them turn it on and they are beyond relieved when I would finally remember, hence the creation of the PAX checkilst page.

Also on that page is Barf Bag location and that I have them on board...again, based on experience from NOT briefing the kid in the back seat who didn't speak up till it was too late!

And for me, multiple pages does not mean that I have THAT much on my checklist, only that I have each segment compartmentalized to an individual page...I find myself MUCH less likely to just breeze over the checklist and skip things once my flow is done.
 
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+1 for a paper checklist. The only time I don't use paper is when I fly the Cirrus. I use the MFD's checklist but we still have a paper backup
 
Ok pretty clear consensus that electronic is just too much of a hassle.


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I tried Foreflight checklist. Decided I like the short seek-time & 0-mA efficiency of the paper under the leg.

Being an avionics tech and computer geek for so many years, I've decided I'm jinxed when it comes to personal electronics. If I need it it will fail. If I need badly, it will fail in the worst way.
 
I have my checklist in Evernote so whenever I think of something I want to add or change I add it or move things around, and then print out a new hardcopy from time to time. I really only use it on my phone for pre-flight though; it's hard to use in turbulence or bright sun.
 
I use the electronic Foreflight Checklist and LOVE IT!
Having the at-a-glance visual queues of the items I've actually completed makes my flow much simpler. It's faster than a paper checklist, and the flow is so much more effective.

You don't have to worry about printing in 4 point text that a gnat couldn't read in order to get it to fit on a nice page. What a bunch of malarkey.

Additionally, being able to modify and adjust the checklists without having to reprint, laminate, or ever use all that other paper garbage.

Much more efficient and safer than paper anything.
 
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Archammer said:
You don't have to worry about printing in 4 point text that a gnat couldn't read in order to get it to fit on a nice page. What a bunch of malarkey.

......

Much more efficient and safer than paper anything.
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Sounds like you got too much stuff in your checklist.

Here's mine, it even has cruise tables, dimensions, strut and tire pressure, v speeds, etc, because I had SOO much extra room and that's for a fully IFR amphibian with a CS prop, two unsafe gear positions, EHSI's etc.


image.jpg


As far as safer, the biggest factor is it's short and simple, also even with a full electronics failure, or if my ipad goes swimming, I still have my checklist :yes:
 
James331 said:
Sounds like you got too much stuff in your checklist.

Here's mine, it even has cruise tables, dimensions, strut and tire pressure, v speeds, etc, because I had SOO much extra room and that's for a fully IFR amphibian with a CS prop, two unsafe gear positions, EHSI's etc.


image.jpg


As far as safer, the biggest factor is it's short and simple, also even with a full electronics failure, or if my ipad goes swimming, I still have my checklist :yes:
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Yea this. My checklist is the one page front and back about the same size as a SureCheck checklist and has everything I need and I can easily see it. When I'm done I just put it in the pocket next to my seat.
 
dans2992 said:
I highly modify my standard checklists. For example, I include items like "verify pax headsets are working" and "set climate control" to avoid the distraction of pax bitching that their headsets don't work or that they're not getting air right after rotation.

This is based on experience.... !
Click to expand...
I think everyone should. It might be expansion of some items and it might be condensing others. The key is to cover what you need in a way that makes it usable to you.

My favorite is from one of my students. Most common xwind landing error is neutralizing ailerons during the rollout. On day when he arrived for a lesson my student showed me the new update to his checklist. "Rollout -- full deflection" had been added to his landing brief checklist.
 
taters said:
could also be a bigtime safety issue
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I don't really see that, especially the "big time" part. Stand-alone checklists, whether paper or electronic, are conveniences. At least with the airplanes I fly, YMMV ;), there's an entire flight manual on board.
 
James331 said:
Sounds like you got too much stuff in your checklist.

Here's mine, it even has cruise tables, dimensions, strut and tire pressure, v speeds, etc, because I had SOO much extra room and that's for a fully IFR amphibian with a CS prop, two unsafe gear positions, EHSI's etc.


image.jpg


As far as safer, the biggest factor is it's short and simple, also even with a full electronics failure, or if my ipad goes swimming, I still have my checklist :yes:
Click to expand...
But what if your paper checklist is as unsecure as your iPad and goes swimming too? :D

I like your checklist. Looks a lot like mine used to until, after the same thing happened with smartphones, I dropped "mine is smaller" as an indicator of quality.;) I find larger fonts to be much more readable for me, especially when used to confirm critical cockpit tasks.

Of course, that could just be my advancing age.
 
midlifeflyer said:
But what if your paper checklist is as unsecure as your iPad and goes swimming too? :D

I like your checklist. Looks a lot like mine used to until, after the same thing happened with smartphones, I dropped "mine is smaller" as an indicator of quality.;) I find larger fonts to be much more readable for me, especially when used to confirm critical cockpit tasks.

Of course, that could just be my advancing age.
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It actually somewhat floats :lol:

I think the font I used was 12 or 14, minus the cruise tables which are a point or two smaller.
 
I have a digital version of my checklist. To access it, I press the home button to wake my iPad, swipe to unlock, punch in my four digit code, press the home button again to exit the Jepp app, navigate to my eReader, and finally select my checklist .pdf. Once I'm done, I'll navigate back to the Jepp app to have it ready for the next time I need it.

Or I can just grab the piece of paper at my knee and read that. ;)
 
I've wondered why it isn't more common to pipe some checklists in audio form through the music input of the newer intercoms. It could leave both eyes and both hands free during busy times.

Now, where did I leave that great old Sony cassette player? ;)

I know one pilot who has his non-pilot pax read the checklists aloud to check the intercom, keep them distracted to avoid nervousness, and better use cockpit resources.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I don't really see that, especially the "big time" part. Stand-alone checklists, whether paper or electronic, are conveniences. At least with the airplanes I fly, YMMV ;), there's an entire flight manual on board.
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They are much more than "conveniences" and perpetuate a safety culture that has aviation at the forefront of many industries. Moreover, they can change and better the outcome of an Emergency or Abnormal situation and save lives.
Weather in a big or small plane deciding to follow a procedure out of "convenience" is simply the wrong attitude. Yes you can die reading a checklist but those situations are rather self-explanatory.

When you’re bouncing around in mod-severe turbulence trying to find your immediate action item checklist with associated QRH procedure followed by normal procedure you will notice...

Checklist are very important and keeping them in a paper EASY TO ACESS AND USE form is vital for your Safety!
 
taters said:
They are much more than "conveniences" and perpetuate a safety culture that has aviation at the forefront of many industries. Moreover, they can change and better the outcome of an Emergency or Abnormal situation and save lives.
Weather in a big or small plane deciding to follow a procedure out of "convenience" is simply the wrong attitude. Yes you can die reading a checklist but those situations are rather self-explanatory.

When you’re bouncing around in mod-severe turbulence trying to find your immediate action item checklist with associated QRH procedure followed by normal procedure you will notice...

Checklist are very important and keeping them in a paper EASY TO ACESS AND USE form is vital for your Safety!
Click to expand...
You can save the rant. I think you completely misunderstood my post. You seem to think I said that checklists are unimportant. I didn't.

What I said was:
Stand-alone checklists, whether paper or electronic, are conveniences. At least with the airplanes I fly, YMMV, there's an entire flight manual on board.
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IOW, if your paper or electronic personal stand-alone checklist in the side pocket or tablet craps out flies out the window, it is not an enormous safety issue, since there's a flight manual easily accessible on board (it is when I fly, anyway - right in the seat pocket of the seat I am not sitting in so I can easily reach it - with the regular, abnormal, emergency and whatever checklists are needed and other sections containing far more information of the procedures you need than most any personal checklist I have ever seen, I'd bet including yours unless yours is about 20 pages long.

Of course, I might have misunderstood your post. Yours might be 20 pages long, in which case I will disagree with you on their every day usability
 
I use an app called CheckMate that's pretty good. You have to buy one of their checklists, but once you do that you get access to their online checklist editor and you can customize it however you want or make an entirely new checklist. I like it for stuff that happens on the ground but I prefer the paper checklist in the air so I don't have to exit Foreflight.
 
nimdabew said:
I don't and wouldn't. I am starting to doubt my choice to move full electronic as far as sectionals go since you are always tied to a power plug or portable battery which kinda defeats the purpose.

If you do use an electronic checklist, have a paper backup in the plane as well. I just find them kinda clunky compared to a regular paper one that you can quickly stash under your leg.
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Even with a glass panel and iPad, my box of sectionals and Low Enroute charts still lived in the back seat of my 310 within easy reach. There are still things that are faster and easier to deal with with paper charts. I learned my lesson long ago with a 530 and MX-20 with no paper and needed to file last minute to get through the Long Beach Cloud that wasn't clearing. I was on descent over Lake Arrowhead and got a V-Airways clearance that had about 20 intersections and waypoints I had to program in, the first about 2 minutes away. I had to just call back and confess, "There is no way I can program that in fast enough, you can vector me, or I'll VFR it to Seal Beach VOR and call you back for sequencing for the ILS, your choice." They chose to just vector me, but it was embarrassing.
 
We've started using the checkmate app at the flight school I teach at. I have to admit i like it, and it seems trouble free. Also helps students keep from losing their place every other item.

Of course, I always have a paper backup, just in case
 
James331 said:
Sounds like you got too much stuff in your checklist.

Here's mine, it even has cruise tables, dimensions, strut and tire pressure, v speeds, etc, because I had SOO much extra room and that's for a fully IFR amphibian with a CS prop, two unsafe gear positions, EHSI's etc.


image.jpg


As far as safer, the biggest factor is it's short and simple, also even with a full electronics failure, or if my ipad goes swimming, I still have my checklist :yes:
Click to expand...


Wow, you could almost use that for a life raft! And you're knocking a digital version?... :rofl: I bet it doesn't stay any drier in the water. My phone is more waterproof and floats better than that paper. Hey at least you have an extra rudder if you need it.

Yes, some of the checklists we all use are pretty complex, and maybe have additional "advanced" items that you don't use. Yet another reason to have my own digital version.

Mine's the size of my phone, and it fits right in my shirt or pants pocket not the giant seat sized pocket yours goes in. I have a verifiable read out of what item(s) are complete and which are not. Does your have that? :no: Plus when I change something in the airplane, takes me about 10 seconds to modify it. Your fancy typed up paper goes bye bye. Or you can chicken scratch on it I guess...

Knock it all you want, but it's better and safer all day long, just like a glass cockpit and an iPad. Paper is dead, just let it die. It was dead 5 years ago and for some reason you people are holding onto it like cursive... Your pen and paper has just as many faults, but good talk.

Backups are one thing, but saying my digital version of ANYTHING shouldn't be primary and even secondary is nonsense. My digital version is easier to get to, access, and utilize which makes it safer, not the other way around.
 
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Archammer said:
Wow, you could almost use that for a life raft! And you're knocking a digital version?... :rofl: I bet it doesn't stay any drier in the water. My phone is more waterproof and floats better than that paper. Hey at least you have an extra rudder if you need it.

Yes, some of the checklists we all use are pretty complex, and maybe have additional "advanced" items that you don't use. Yet another reason to have my own digital version.

Mine's the size of my phone, and it fits right in my shirt or pants pocket not the giant seat sized pocket yours goes in. I have a verifiable read out of what item(s) are complete and which are not. Does your have that? :no: Plus when I change something in the airplane, takes me about 10 seconds to modify it. Your fancy typed up paper goes bye bye. Or you can chicken scratch on it I guess...

Knock it all you want, but it's better and safer all day long, just like a glass cockpit and an iPad. Paper is dead, just let it die. It was dead 5 years ago and for some reason you people are holding onto it like cursive... Your pen and paper has just as many faults, but good talk.

Backups are one thing, but saying my digital version of ANYTHING shouldn't be primary and even secondary is nonsense. My digital version is easier to get to, access, and utilize which makes it safer, not the other way around.
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well done sir , well done :rofl:
 
I tried a checklist app for my tablet. That lasted one day. Took too long to go through and "check" everything and sift through all the different pages when all of the same info fits on one half sheet of laminated paper.

I made my own checklist based on one I found online for a cherokee simply because I liked the layout. It has all the normal lists on one side and emergency stuff on the back. I put a little piece of velcro on the top and have it stuck to a matching piece right at the base of the windscreen pillar. I put it there so it would be easy to reach, but it turns out I can read it at all times there so I never even have to grab it to look.
 
Archammer said:
Wow, you could almost use that for a life raft! And you're knocking a digital version?... :rofl: I bet it doesn't stay any drier in the water. My phone is more waterproof and floats better than that paper. Hey at least you have an extra rudder if you need it.

Yes, some of the checklists we all use are pretty complex, and maybe have additional "advanced" items that you don't use. Yet another reason to have my own digital version.

Mine's the size of my phone, and it fits right in my shirt or pants pocket not the giant seat sized pocket yours goes in. I have a verifiable read out of what item(s) are complete and which are not. Does your have that? :no: Plus when I change something in the airplane, takes me about 10 seconds to modify it. Your fancy typed up paper goes bye bye. Or you can chicken scratch on it I guess...

Knock it all you want, but it's better and safer all day long, just like a glass cockpit and an iPad. Paper is dead, just let it die. It was dead 5 years ago and for some reason you people are holding onto it like cursive... Your pen and paper has just as many faults, but good talk.

Backups are one thing, but saying my digital version of ANYTHING shouldn't be primary and even secondary is nonsense. My digital version is easier to get to, access, and utilize which makes it safer, not the other way around.
Click to expand...

Well played good sir :lol:

Nah, with the thick lamination stuff it's quite waterproof :yes:

Also that checklist used a 135 turbine single pilot IFR FIKI checklist as the general template, all the smaller working aircraft I've ever seen use the folded and laminated single sheet of paper checklists, it's not too small, not too large, doesn't need batteries and can be duplicated as needed for the cost of paper, toner and a lamination sheet.

I do have a copy of it in foreflight, but it's never really used.
 
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