EFB - Who get's my next $150

[bjohnsonmn]

Hello All,
I've been a ForeFlight user for two full cycles now, but I am considering a change. I still plan to use an iPad... For now. Though, I would consider a change to a Windows or Android tablet for the right app.

I figured I'd start a thread to begin a discussion. The only thing i ask is to stay on point, and resist the urge to get religious regarding iOS vs. Android vs. Windows. Here is my list of needs/wants:

1. Must have geo-referenced approach plates.
1a. Would like to have plates overlay on a moving map
2. Must integrate with an external GPS with ADS-B in capabilities.
2b. Like - AHRS type features such as backup attitude indicator.
2c. Like - Fly through on backup attitude indicator
2d. Like - Synthetic vision
3. GOOD resolution on Sectionals even when zoomed in closely
3a. Like - Vector image based VFR rendering to improve clarity.

Perhaps there are other features I am not thinking of, but I am really interested in good arguments FOR options that you guys and gals like.

All the Best and Smooth Air,
Brad

 

[frfly172]

Stay with Foreflight ,they have been updating as needed.

 

[Steve Job]

Hello All,
I've been a ForeFlight user for two full cycles now, but I am considering a change. I still plan to use an iPad... For now. Though, I would consider a change to a Windows or Android tablet for the right app.

I figured I'd start a thread to begin a discussion. The only thing i ask is to stay on point, and resist the urge to get religious regarding iOS vs. Android vs. Windows. Here is my list of needs/wants:

1. Must have geo-referenced approach plates.
1a. Would like to have plates overlay on a moving map
2. Must integrate with an external GPS with ADS-B in capabilities.
2b. Like - AHRS type features such as backup attitude indicator.
2c. Like - Fly through on backup attitude indicator
2d. Like - Synthetic vision
3. GOOD resolution on Sectionals even when zoomed in closely
3a. Like - Vector image based VFR rendering to improve clarity.

Perhaps there are other features I am not thinking of, but I am really interested in good arguments FOR options that you guys and gals like.

All the Best and Smooth Air,
Brad

Garmin Pilot

 

[bjohnsonmn]

Steve,
Do you have experience with the Garmin Pilot software? That is one of the options high on my list.

Any thoughts on WingX?

 

[CT4ME]

WingX fills the bill. The Vector view is not named as such, but is done by selecting "none" (or terrain) as the view, then adding what you want on top of that. But try them yourself, as they all seem to have a free trial period. WingX seems to work with more vendors of external devices.

 

[docmirror]

I'm in a similar boat from the OP. Although I would prefer Android platform. This is not to start a debate on Android v iPad, just that I have a Note now, and like the interface. If WingX offered for Android I would likely just do that.

Waiting for some reviews of any Android apps, but also willing to listen to apps for iPad.

 

[ja_user]

Stay with Foreflight ,they have been updating as needed.

I switch from iPad/foreflight to android Garmin... Mainly because I hate iPads.

If aviation is your main criteria, stick wit iPad/foreflight... I love the android tablet, but the aviation apps aren't as good.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Hello All,
I've been a ForeFlight user for two full cycles now, but I am considering a change.

1. Must have geo-referenced approach plates.
1a. Would like to have plates overlay on a moving map
2. Must integrate with an external GPS with ADS-B in capabilities.
2b. Like - AHRS type features such as backup attitude indicator.
2c. Like - Fly through on backup attitude indicator
2d. Like - Synthetic vision
3. GOOD resolution on Sectionals even when zoomed in closely
3a. Like - Vector image based VFR rendering to improve clarity.

First question: Why do you want to switch? Is ForeFlight not serving your needs? They tend to be best at both UI and support.

As far as your list above - AFAIK, nothing does everything on the list. ForeFlight is the only EFB with the "Plates on Maps" feature (1a) but doesn't have what I think you're asking for in 3a.

#2: Currently, ForeFlight and Stratus work together, Garmin Pilot and the GDL-39 work together, WingX is the only big player that uses the other available units, but WingX can't use either the Stratus or GDL-39. Last I checked, Stratus 2 was the least expensive unit with WAAS GPS, dual channel ADS-B, and AHRS built in by a significant margin.

I can't comment on features that haven't been released in ForeFlight yet, but if you search the forum here you'll see that they have responded to requests for some of the rest of #2...

#3: I assume you're talking about a map that's just black with symbols on it like a panel-mount 430 or something like that? I believe Garmin does this, I don't know if WingX does, as you know, ForeFlight does not.

ForeFlight, WingX, and Garmin Pilot all do all of your "musts" - None of them do all of your "likes".

 

[comanchepilot]

Decide which ADS-B solution you want - that will dictate your software solution . . .

Once you spend $800 on an ADS-B solution then your choice of software will be etched in stone so long as you use that hardware. . . .

Obviously Hilton's software is more 'open' and you have more choices for an ADS-B hardware solution - whereas Stratus gets you AHRS and ADS-B but locks you to Foreflight just like the Garmin units lock you to Garmin solutions . . .

 

[docmirror]

OK, I went the other way. I just bought a used iPad 2 with 16GB and no G3, only Wifi, so I'm gonna need an ext GPS and software.

I might make a new thread, but the Foreflight people recommend larger memory. So, I see there are external HD options that mount on IOS, and wondering if anyone has ever put their map DB on the external drive and use that as the map source? Seems like it would work as long as the software knows the mount point. There's nothing on the Foreflight website or in the FAQ about "external hard drive".

Here's the device I'm thinking of: http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Conne...980782&sr=8-22&keywords=ipad+external+storage

 

[dans2992]

Decide which ADS-B solution you want - that will dictate your software solution . . .

Once you spend $800 on an ADS-B solution then your choice of software will be etched in stone so long as you use that hardware. . . .

Obviously Hilton's software is more 'open' and you have more choices for an ADS-B hardware solution - whereas Stratus gets you AHRS and ADS-B but locks you to Foreflight just like the Garmin units lock you to Garmin solutions . . .

Ok, but if you get something compatible with WingX, what other software would/could you use it with besides WingX?

 

[Dr. O]

Last night I let out a stream of swear words and launched the Ipad (my wife's) across the couch.
What a gawd awful excuse for a tool.
First, let me say I really like ForeFlight and will for the moment continue to use that app.
But the Ipad's insistence on changing the word I wrote when I hit the space bar because it does not have it in the autospell drives me bananas. I'm a physician with an electronics and plant engineering background. I know a lot of words the dip****s at Apple never heard of. Too many to have to stop and insert it into the memory every time I hit a new one. And even with a word it knows, halfway through typing it switches what I typed for another word because it 'knows better' than I.

Then there is the browser (arrgh) that every time I close an article I just read it does not return me to where I left off browsing the front page of the Evening Turd Gazette. Nooooo, it insists on going back to the top of the front page. So now I am finger swiping my way back down (waaay down) to get to another article and halfway there it gets tired of finger swiping and summarily opens whatever article it feels like that was near my last finger swipe - or even a couple of swipes back.

I could go on and on but I will likely either have a stroke or stomp into the next room and smash the accursed gadget.
The instant an Android based tablet comes up with something to equal ForeFlight I am gone baby, history, outta here. (I had to type this on a PC to keep from stroking out)

 

[MooneyDriver78]

Why not just off the auto correction instead? It's under keyboard settings


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[midlifeflyer]

Ok, but if you get something compatible with WingX, what other software would/could you use it with besides WingX?

Look a little. There are other iPad apps than FF, WingX and Garmin and a number of Android apps that are decent, which have more open architecture.

Hilton made a business decision not to tie his app to only one ADS-B unit and others have as well.

 

[Flymeariver]

OK, I went the other way. I just bought a used iPad 2 with 16GB and no G3, only Wifi, so I'm gonna need an ext GPS and software.

I might make a new thread, but the Foreflight people recommend larger memory.

My Ipad 2 is 16g and I have had no problems with Foreflight. Only adjustment is only able to keep about 50% of the country on download list. Then again, for most of us thats a non issue.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Why not just off the auto correction instead? It's under keyboard settings


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Shhh... much more fun to rant than to fix.

Although iOS's dislike of contractions is pretty annoying. Try typing it's not on an iPad (with auto correction on)

 

[Jim_R]

1. Must have geo-referenced approach plates.
1a. Would like to have plates overlay on a moving map
2. Must integrate with an external GPS with ADS-B in capabilities.
2b. Like - AHRS type features such as backup attitude indicator.
2c. Like - Fly through on backup attitude indicator
2d. Like - Synthetic vision
3. GOOD resolution on Sectionals even when zoomed in closely
3a. Like - Vector image based VFR rendering to improve clarity.

Perhaps there are other features I am not thinking of, but I am really interested in good arguments FOR options that you guys and gals like.

Take a look at iFly. As others have mentioned, I think only ForeFlight does 1a right now, but iFly covers most of the rest, including 3a. (No 2d yet, though.)

iFly supports just about every portable ADSB option out there...except Stratus, of course. There are multiple AHRS options to choose from. The SkyRadar DX has both UAT and 1090ES receivers plus an AHRS. If you want ADSB out (for better traffic coverage), then check out the options from SkyGuardTWX.

iFly's also available on both iOS and Android, and their data plans are relatively inexpensive. You can upgrade from a single device data subscription to up to 3 devices for only $20.

 

[Steve Job]

Steve,
Do you have experience with the Garmin Pilot software? That is one of the options high on my list.

Any thoughts on WingX?

I initially did the 30 day trial on the big three (WingX, Foreflight, Pilot) about 18 months ago. I ended up buying Foreflight for a year, but let it expire because I really wanted synthetic vision. Last Black Friday, I bought the 2 year IFR/VFR subscription to AOPA FlyQ, which is nice, but I really wanted the vector mapping available with Garmin Pilot. I don't like looking at sectionals upside down, so when Garmin came out with the GDL-39 3D, (which now offers a very polished SV), I decided to go that route. Once you buy the ADS-B hardware, you're sorta locked in to the app. I'm afraid that FLyQ may go the way of WingMan, Foreflight didn't offer SV, so since Garmin isn't going away anytime soon, I bit the bullet. I didn't know that WingX offers pseudo vector mapping, and I read recently that WingX is also letting you auto populate IFR approach waypoints, but I don't regret my decision (yet). You really can't go wrong with any of the big three. Just realize that whatever you choose, there will be some bigger/better gadget in a few years, and nobody will believe you are still using ancient 2014 technology.

 

[Pappy]

I started with Foreflight and now use Garmin Pilot.

I personally like Foreflight better for preflight planning (although Garmin has gotten lightyears better with last two updates), and Foreflight's map rendering is really gorgeous...and fast. I switched because I hated using Foreflight in flight. I just found it to be hard to hit the right buttons and the information I needed was generally not readily accessible without multiple clicks.

Garmin has "the wheel" (or whatever it's called) which is super easy to use in flight and generally gets you what you want on the first try. I also find Garmin's vector maps to be a HUGE improvement over scanned sectionals (but my advice is to change the background color of VFR map to white to help readability in sunlight). Garmin does not have charts superimposed over the map like foreflight, and I find that Garmin's interface is sometimes a little bit slower or laggy.

My advice is to try them all...I think they all have 30 day trials.

 

[C182P]

Shhh... much more fun to rant than to fix.

What was interesting about that rant is that not only are both iPad complaints avoidable (turn off auto-checker; download an alternative browser since many are available for free), he also complains that there aren't any decent aviation apps available for Android which is why he still uses his iPad -- but Garmin Pilot for Android has been a contender for quite a while and is certainly well polished.

 

[Flyhound]

I use Avilution on an Android tablet (Asus Transformer Infinity pad TF700) and I have a Dual XGPS170 ADSB receiver that links to the tablet with Bluetooth (lowr power requirements than WiFi). The combination is superb! The Avilution user interface is the best I've dealt with on any platform and the capabilities are top notch. AHRS is also available with ADSB-in systems like iLevil if you want to pay for the additional capability. With the Dual ADSB receiver, I have georeferenced moving maps with a choice of Sectional, Terminal, IFR-low and IFR-high chart depictions. I have the basic subscription that is only $54.95/year, but georeferenced approach plates are also available with the advanced version of the software for $114.95/year. It is a combination that is really hard to beat.

 

[dukeblue219]

O
I might make a new thread, but the Foreflight people recommend larger memory. So, I see there are external HD options that mount on IOS, and wondering if anyone has ever put their map DB on the external drive and use that as the map source? Seems like it would work as long as the software knows the mount point. There's nothing on the Foreflight website or in the FAQ about "external hard drive".

Here's the device I'm thinking of: http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Conne...980782&sr=8-22&keywords=ipad+external+storage

There's no chance this will work unless Foreflight specifically decides in the future to support a wireless device like that. iOS is far more of a "walled garden" than Windows or Android. Each app has its own storage area on the iPad and cannot access files from other apps. There are certain work arounds, like using a device that serves files over wifi to a webbrowser, like the product you have shown, but there's not going to be a way to simply save the Foreflight database anywhere else.

On the other hand, I have a 64GB iPad but Foreflight uses only 5.8GB right now for VFR + IFR for most of the US east of the Mississippi.

 

[Jonathanf4]

I have used Foreflight, WingX and AOPA's EFB along with Clarity SV and Stratus and all I can say is nothing beats Foreflight. Its just very user friendly and they keep adding new functionality and provide great support. Hands down go with Foreflight.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Decide which ADS-B solution you want - that will dictate your software solution . . .

Once you spend $800 on an ADS-B solution then your choice of software will be etched in stone so long as you use that hardware. . . .

I disagree completely - The various hardware lines do mostly the same things, the main difference being price. The software is a far more important decision.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

OK, I went the other way. I just bought a used iPad 2 with 16GB and no G3, only Wifi, so I'm gonna need an ext GPS and software.

I might make a new thread, but the Foreflight people recommend larger memory. So, I see there are external HD options that mount on IOS, and wondering if anyone has ever put their map DB on the external drive and use that as the map source? Seems like it would work as long as the software knows the mount point. There's nothing on the Foreflight website or in the FAQ about "external hard drive".

Here's the device I'm thinking of: http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Conne...980782&sr=8-22&keywords=ipad+external+storage

I don't think that device will do what you want it to. It sounds like it only works with their app or a web browser, not with any other apps like ForeFlight.

If you avoid putting music, movies, or photos on your iPad and just use it for ForeFlight and low-storage-required apps, you'll be OK. I haven't looked lately, but I think if you get sectionals, low enroutes, taxi diagrams, and approach plates for the ConUS it's about 7 GB. High-resolution terrain data might add another half gig. You probably won't have enough storage for two full data cycles, so you'll either need to wait until one expires to update, or simply don't download the entire ConUS.

I have 64GB devices, but I also have a ton of photos and music on them so my storage space is limited. I have my home state and all the surrounding states downloaded all the time, and that takes care of 80% of my flying. When I do a longer trip, I'll just add the states I need.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

But the Ipad's insistence on changing the word I wrote when I hit the space bar because it does not have it in the autospell drives me bananas. I'm a physician with an electronics and plant engineering background. I know a lot of words the dip****s at Apple never heard of. Too many to have to stop and insert it into the memory every time I hit a new one.

This is simple. Don't hit the space bar, hit the little "x" next to the autocorrect suggestion and it'll get added to the dictionary (I forget if it does it right away or on the 2nd time). Or, as another poster suggested, turn it off.

The instant an Android based tablet comes up with something to equal ForeFlight I am gone baby, history, outta here. (I had to type this on a PC to keep from stroking out)

Android has autocorrect too, ya know...

 

[atbroome]

I think the point being made was once you buy the hardware, you are locked into a software solution unless you are willing to re-buy other hardware.

I disagree completely - The various hardware lines do mostly the same things, the main difference being price. The software is a far more important decision.

 

[Badger]

Maybe wait a week or so til FF version 6 is released and see if they add some features you are after.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Maybe wait a week or so til FF version 6 is released and see if they add some features you are after.

This. Just got the email from ForeFlight this morning that it's been submitted... And you (OP) probably did to, if you bothered to read it.

 

[docmirror]

I don't think that device will do what you want it to. It sounds like it only works with their app or a web browser, not with any other apps like ForeFlight.

If you avoid putting music, movies, or photos on your iPad and just use it for ForeFlight and low-storage-required apps, you'll be OK. I haven't looked lately, but I think if you get sectionals, low enroutes, taxi diagrams, and approach plates for the ConUS it's about 7 GB. High-resolution terrain data might add another half gig. You probably won't have enough storage for two full data cycles, so you'll either need to wait until one expires to update, or simply don't download the entire ConUS.

I have 64GB devices, but I also have a ton of photos and music on them so my storage space is limited. I have my home state and all the surrounding states downloaded all the time, and that takes care of 80% of my flying. When I do a longer trip, I'll just add the states I need.

Thanks, this confirms what I just got back from team Foreflight. I'll just download one cycle, and scrub it when the next cycle comes out. I can stage the next cycle on the ext hard drive, but Foreflight won't talk to the ext HD. No worries.

 

[NJP_MAN]

Android has autocorrect too, ya know...

At least with android all you have to do is backspace after it mis-corrects your word, it changes back to your spelling and you don't have to bother with trying to touch the tiny (x) next to the word only to touch the word itself and have the pad mis-correct anyway. This also allows the user to continue using auto fill and not completely disable it.

 

[Jim_R]

I think the point being made was once you buy the hardware, you are locked into a software solution unless you are willing to re-buy other hardware.

But that isn't exactly true. Most hardware has its own "homegrown" software that goes with it, but there may also be other software available. As I mentioned before, iFly GPS works with just about everything out there except Stratus (which has an exclusive deal with ForeFlight) and the Garmin-proprietary stuff.

SkyRadar, SkyGuard, iLevel, Navworx...those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head...all work with iFly GPS, as well as whatever software they come with.

 

[dans2992]

I wonder which portable ADSB receivers have the most market share?

I'm guessing Garmin and Stratus, but I really have no idea.

 

[docmirror]

Prices on ADS-B gotta come way down before I'm jumping in. If not, oh well, I'm staying out of closed airspace after that and getting a car from outlying airport.

 

[dans2992]

For $100 hamburgers, that's do-able. To go places - not so much.

 

[bjohnsonmn]

A couple of comments:

1. Thank you all for the feedback! I will watch to see what v6 of ForeFlight offers, though i wonder what else they will add. A feature like vector based charts and easier interaction with items on the map would be great.

2. The 30 day trials may seal the deal. I am curious for those who have flown both iPad and Android Tablet what the big differences tend to be between an iOS version of an app and an Android version. I wouldn't mind jumping off of iPad as I've had a lot of performance issues with my Mini and FF, even AFTER doing a full factory reset. I really only use the iPad for flying, and a few tablet functions that would be fine to do on Android or Windows.

3. C'mon guys, enough razzing about auto-correct. It sucks, it's great... it's based on user's choice.

4. ASCII, Nice looking club you have there at Dane. Being from Waukesha, and my wife from New Glarus, we've used Dane before. I am a board member on our club www.cloud7.org. I'd love to talk club flying with you some time, and offer a ride up here if you are ever in town.

Thanks again for all of the input! The only platform I haven't seen anything on is Windows, or the Jeppesen software... I am guessing that is a sign.

Best,
B

 

[denverpilot]

Thanks, this confirms what I just got back from team Foreflight. I'll just download one cycle, and scrub it when the next cycle comes out. I can stage the next cycle on the ext hard drive, but Foreflight won't talk to the ext HD. No worries.

That whole "scrub" thing will get old. If you can handle just putting common states you fly in, into the download settings, you'll be able to hold the updates during the overlap week when they release them but they're not active yet.

Foreflight will download them and switch over (and delete the old ones) at the appropriate time. But if there isn't enough room, you have to diddle.

The 16GB devices aren't as useful as 32GB or bigger if you're using them as both your iPad and an EFB and you want all of CONUS.

Frankly I wish FF had some way to share the downloaded data over the local LAN. I'm using all of my FF licenses with two iPads and an iPhone.

Downloading CONUS three times is downright stupid. Painful on my whopping 5M Internet connection.

Not a deal-killer, but the IDevices get told to download and I go to bed... Sometimes they're done in the morning, sometimes one or all of them crap out.

 

[bjohnsonmn]

One other comment... The iFly software looks interesting. I am curious if anyone has a ride report from it?

AND, any Minneapolis area based pilots interested in in doing a comparison? (read, excuse to get breakfast or lunch and hangar fly about our flying technology)

 

[ssonixx]

I just found it to be hard to hit the right buttons ...


I have the same challenge on an ipad Mini. The buttons on the bottom are generally harder to hit accurately rather than the ones on top. I am now even using a stylus to try and get more accurate. But would really love it if they would move the row of buttons on the bottom to the top.

 

[Pappy]

I just found it to be hard to hit the right buttons ...


I have the same challenge on an ipad Mini. The buttons on the bottom are generally harder to hit accurately rather than the ones on top. I am now even using a stylus to try and get more accurate. But would really love it if they would move the row of buttons on the bottom to the top.

Forgot to mention I'm also using a Mini. I really want to like Foreflight more...their support/community involvement is top-notch and their presentation technology is beautiful and fast. I just find Garmin easier to use in flight. To each his own, I guess!