Eddy Current Inspection? Piper SB-1345

pburger

pburger

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Houston, TX
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Paul B.
I'm going to have the Piper SB-1345 done on my Arrow.

Can anyone recommend someone near Houston, TX that is qualified in accordance with NAS 410 Level II or Level III? The inspection of the bolt holes must be done in accordance with SAE ARP4402.

Has anyone had this done? Either in response to this SB or perhaps in response to the proposed AD two years ago? If so, what did it cost you?
 
Bell206 said:
Are you looking for just the NDT portion, or someone to perform the entire SB?
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Just the NDT. My A&P will pull the bolts and then replace them after the NDT inspection is complete.
 
pburger said:
Just the NDT.
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For mobile aviation services it may be tight to find one in the Houston area. There's one company, Applied Technical Services, that has a Houston office, but don't know if they do aviation inspections out of that office. They're a large company that NDT in various industries, but have used them for aviation in a different state. There are several in the Dallas area that are mobile like JETS, Inc. But don't know if they're at your price point. Regardless, give them a call and see if they know anyone. Another option is to contact Piper Tech Support and see if they have a list of NDT providers in the Houston area.
 
3393RP said:
Does the NDT company have to hold some sort of aviation inspection certificate?
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Yes, in one sense. The work still needs to be signed off via Part 43. Its a dark gray area if an AP can sign behind a Level II NDT tech. All aviation NDT services work under a CRS and sign it remotely when on the road. Very few Level II/III NDT techs have an AP and they operate at a premium. I know of one in the entire GOM area.
 
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Bell206 said:
Yes, in one sense. The work still needs to be signed off via Part 43. Its a dark gray area if an AP can sign behind a Level II NDT tech. All aviation NDT services work under a CRS and sign it remotely when on the road. Very few Level II/III NDT techs have an AP and they operate at a premium. I know of one in the entire GOM area.
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The AD will dictate which level is required.
 
Piper SB 1345
Personnel Qualifications:

Personnel that perform eddy current inspections shall be qualified in accordance with NAS 410 Level II or Level III.

Eddy current bolt hole inspections shall be performed in accordance with SAE ARP4402 or a written procedure specific to the aircraft being inspected and approved by the FAA.

this will put a strain on the A&P-IAs. (cost of equipment)
 
NAS 410 Level II or III is an employer certification. Any serious shop who does aviation NDT work will have them on staff because it is literally the employer certifying that a person has experience and knowledge.

Knowing that, Google is your friend. I found Applied Technology Services with an office in La Porte. I’m sure there are others.
 
bflynn said:
NAS 410 Level II or III is an employer certification. Any serious shop who does aviation NDT work will have them on staff because it is literally the employer certifying that a person has experience and knowledge.

Knowing that, Google is your friend. I found Applied Technology Services with an office in La Porte. I’m sure there are others.
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Google? What’s that?
Seriously dude? I know how to Google. I asked if anyone could recommend someone. That would imply some level of familiarity beyond a Google search.
 
Just about every jet MRO In the country should be able to perform the eddy current, just contact one and pay for road trip and by the hour. It shouldn’t be much more than $130 an hour.
 
Tom-D said:
this will put a strain on the A&P-IAs. (cost of equipment)
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Doubtful. Unless an A&P already had a NDT cert or years of documented NDT experience, they would have to quit the day job and get a job at a NDT entry level position then spend a number of years working at that job until they could test at a Level II for each inspection method. Fortunately/unfortunately, Level II NDT ratings are not a weekend class/test and you are a Level II. A Level III rating is a 20 year endeavor in most cases.
 
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bflynn said:
it is literally the employer certifying that a person
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FYI: NDT certifications are done to external consensus standards. While it's possible an employer can have a Level III technician on staff, who is the one authorized to certify people, most shops only have Level II and Level I techs.
 
Bell206 said:
Doubtful. Unless an A&P already had a NDT cert or years of documented NDT experience, they would have to quit the day job and get a job at a NDT entry level position then spend a number of years working at that job until they could test at a Level II for each inspection method. Fortunately/unfortunately, Level II NDT ratings are not a weekend class/test and you are a Level II. A Level III rating is a 20 year endeavor in most cases.
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In either case the cost of an annual will go up.
 
Bell206 said:
FYI: NDT certifications are done to external consensus standards. While it's possible an employer can have a Level III technician on staff, who is the one authorized to certify people, most shops only have Level II and Level I techs.
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The cost of the inspection is not free. it require time to do the inspections
 
Tom-D said:
The cost of the inspection is not free.
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True. But the question is why the annual cost goes up? The inspection can be performed anytime or not performed at the owners discretion. This not an AD or a recurring inspection. Correct?
 
Bell206 said:
FYI: NDT certifications are done to external consensus standards. While it's possible an employer can have a Level III technician on staff, who is the one authorized to certify people, most shops only have Level II and Level I techs.
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Your statement doesn't make logical sense. If most shops don't have a Level III tech on staff and the certification is granted by the employer, how is a level II tech certified when you claim that a level III must certify the level II?

The only way a shop gets a NAS 410 Level II certification is if the employer certifies the person to that level. It is the employer certifying that the person meets the knowledge and experience requirements for that level, but nobody outside the shop is involved. If they don't have a level III, it's because they can't validate the experience or knowledge level.

Again, it is the the employer (not a level III tech) that certifies the level II. The same employer would also certify the knowledge and experience of a Level III tech.
 
pburger said:
I asked if anyone could recommend someone. That would imply some level of familiarity beyond a Google search.
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Just about anyone who has a level II tech on staff is going to do a good job as long as they work on aircraft. The technology is decades old and proven to be reliable.

You can only really get two recommendation
1) "yes, they did the job".
2) "no, they missed a crack and my airplane fell apart", in which case the company is probably out of business by now.

I'd be at the point of calling around and getting prices.
 
bflynn said:
how is a level II tech certified when you claim that a level III must certify the level II?
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They bring in the "Responsible Level III", who is required to be listed in the employers written procedure, until the shop certifies their own internal Level III, if they choose. However, a lot of small shops stop at Level II due to certification requirements and utilize their R-Level III, or other external Level III, to teach and certify shop personal and procedures. All 410 shop certifications start with this external Responsible Level III as only they can approve the initial programs and procedures per the Standard. An employer can not simply set up a NDT shop, select who is a Level I, II, III and start inspecting. That's about as logical as it gets.;)
 
bflynn said:
Just about anyone who has a level II tech on staff is going to do a good job as long as they work on aircraft. The technology is decades old and proven to be reliable.

You can only really get two recommendation
1) "yes, they did the job".
2) "no, they missed a crack and my airplane fell apart", in which case the company is probably out of business by now.

I'd be at the point of calling around and getting prices.
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Dude, really? I fail to find any value in your responses. I was basically asking if anyone knows of someone that does this kind of work in my area. Something along the lines of, "I had a guy do a similar inspection on my Cardinal last year, his name is Bob, you might give him a call". I assume you don't know a guy in my area, and you didn't have a witty or snarky reply, or reference boobs in any way, nor did you make a Cirrus joke (oh chute!). Your advice to me is to pick up the phone? Really? I expect more from POA!
 
Bell206 said:
True. But the question is why the annual cost goes up? The inspection can be performed anytime or not performed at the owners discretion. This not an AD or a recurring inspection. Correct?
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Correct, so why are we worried about it.
Why? because someone asked. post #1
All the POA'res know the annual encompasses all. :)
 
Tom-D said:
Why? because someone asked. post #1
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??? The OP didn't ask about the annual in Post 1. You brought it up in Post 14. Hence my question on the increase in annual costs. Only curious if you know see something I don't see. ;)
 
Bell206 said:
??? The OP didn't ask about the annual in Post 1. You brought it up in Post 14. Hence my question on the increase in annual costs. Only curious if you know see something I don't see. ;)
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It's a process getting to the point.
Lots of people have made comments.
 
pburger said:
Dude, really? I fail to find any value in your responses. I was basically asking if anyone knows of someone that does this kind of work in my area. Something along the lines of, "I had a guy do a similar inspection on my Cardinal last year, his name is Bob, you might give him a call". I assume you don't know a guy in my area, and you didn't have a witty or snarky reply, or reference boobs in any way, nor did you make a Cirrus joke (oh chute!). Your advice to me is to pick up the phone? Really? I expect more from POA!
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Yeah Right?
it is impossible with the rules in place at this time
 
pburger said:
Can anyone recommend someone near Houston, TX
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Davecat said:
Looking for technician in Houston area as well
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Perhaps coordinate your combined efforts with any other potential Piper owners in the Houston area and make a group offer to a NDT vendor to perform the SB over a a set time frame and at a set price (discounted?) for all concerned??
 
DONE! PASSED!

We had two Arrows inspected this morning. Both passed with NO CRACKS! (Just say no to crack!)

We used Wally Warren (281-794-0947). Wally lives in Conroe, TX, which is just north of Houston. He charged us $600 per plane.
 
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