Ease family concerns of flying small aircraft

[denverpilot]

Also you do not see many fender benders as they call them in aviation. Not to often people walk away. It happens but not as often as automobiles.

This is not true. Ask any aviation insurance underwriter. Plenty of losses incurred with no loss of life. Additionally plenty of other potentially deadly scenarios that were non-events when handled well.

I personally know three people who have had complete engine failures in singles. Two have had them twice. Also know someone who had a midair and survived it which is incredibly rare.

Point is... There's plenty of aviation "fender bender" level events. The public is not aware of them, but they happen with regularity.

 

[Dead Stick]

I don't consider the C172 airplane I fly is a crotch Rocket LOL.

It was a serious question. LOL

We all know jackwads that we would not feel comfortable flying with. There seems to be at least one at every airport. I don't know the guy, but I know enough not to assume that he is not one. For all any of us know, his significant other's reservations about flying with him could be well grounded.

 

[Dead Stick]

This is not true. Ask any aviation insurance underwriter. Plenty of losses incurred with no loss of life. Additionally plenty of other potentially deadly scenarios that were non-events when handled well.

I personally know three people who have had complete engine failures in singles. Two have had them twice. Also know someone who had a midair and survived it which is incredibly rare.

Point is... There's plenty of aviation "fender bender" level events. The public is not aware of them, but they happen with regularity.

All you have to do is peruse the NTSB accident database - most of the accidents are "fender benders".

 

[Jimmy cooper]

The faa monthly accident reports that I read often describe a lot more than " fender benders" in fact if you read them carefully, many that don't result in fatalities , still describe serious injury which can mean any thing from future problems to dying later on. Included in dumb decisions , are quite a few " engine quit shortly after takeoff" which is as serious as it gets. They usually result in a death or two.

 

[gismo]

Fossett died just through repeated exposure to regular GA. And you can't opt out of dead stupid pilot trick odds, we are all stupid enough to do those things. Some of us just haven't yet.

Ah, but I already did mine and have gotten them out of my system.

But seriously, if it looks like I'll have less than an hour's fuel when I land I either slow down until the totalizer's fuel reserve goes back to an hour or start looking for somewhere closer to land.

If I feel the urge to buzz something I stay at least 1000 AGL and monitor my AoA so as to maintain a decent stall margin.

I've been IFR current for pretty much all of the last 25 years and usually file for any trip longer than a half hour. If the wx gets down to MVFR when I haven't filed I airfile and join the system.

I really do believe that my chances of coming to grief by stretching fuel too far, stalling close to the ground while showing off, or blundering into IMC are pretty much insignificant. Do you see any holes in my logic?

I certainly don't mean to imply that I'm immune from doing something stupid in an airplane, just that it won't be one of the three most common.

 

[Henning]

The faa monthly accident reports that I read often describe a lot more than " fender benders" in fact if you read them carefully, many that don't result in fatalities , still describe serious injury which can mean any thing from future problems to dying later on. Included in dumb decisions , are quite a few " engine quit shortly after takeoff" which is as serious as it gets. They usually result in a death or two.

If you count that, 100% of accidents are fatal.

 

[nddons]

It is a test. If you stop flying you fail. Let her be uneasy, chicks love being uneasy. Logic BS, and stats, and Nall report this and that do nothing but make you look like a chump, do not invoke them. If you have to argue take a clue from Maverick and say 'that's right icewoman I am dangerous.'

 

[Bob T]

My wife is fine as long as my life insurance is paid up.

 

[Lord Muck]

My wife is fine as long as my life insurance is paid up.

... in fact she encourages it?

 

[Bob T]

... in fact she encourages it?

Come to think of it, she does.

 

[FloridaPilot]

Last time I checked the fatality rate was around 2 per 100,000 hours but a significant portion of basis for that number comes from homebuilt AC (let's not get into the whys of that), running out of gas with no mechanical issue like a leak, low level maneuvering (i.e. buzzing the neighbors), and VFR into IMC and several high-risk airborne activities like flying to offshore platforms and cropdusting. All of those risks can be eliminated if you want to.

Taking a SWAG and the percentage of remaining causes more likely to befall a careful aviator I'd go with something between 10% and 25%. If that's a reasonable number and you're chances are the same as everyone else, you should expect the "low risk group" fatality rate would be between 2 and 5 per 1,000,000 hours. On that basis the expected # of fatalities for 20 people @ 2000 hrs each would be between 2 * 0.04 = 0.08 and 5 * .04 = 0.2 (20*2000 = .04 million). That's a long ways from all 20. Even if you put everyone in the same group WRT risk factors with an average fatality rate of 20 per million hours (assume everyone is going to buzz neighbors, fly VFR into IMC, run out of fuel, etc) the fatalities for the group of 20 shouldn't average more than 20 * .04 = .8 so you'd still only lose most of one statistically.

Let's try another scenario. Maybe you win the lottery tomorrow and are able to retire with all the money and time necessary to fly as much as you want. How many hours would that amount to? Maybe 10-20 hours per week? At 20 hours per week and 50 weeks per year you'd be flying about 1000 hours per year. At that rate (again assuming you gave up stupid pilot tricks for Lent) you'd need to fly for 200 to 500 years (200,000 hrs to 500,000 - hrs) before your number came up statistically to a 1 to 1 chance.

Did you folks know every 33 seconds someone dies of cardiovascular disease?

http://www.theheartfoundation.org/heart-disease-facts/heart-disease-statistics/


Flying IS dangerous and I would tell my family that. Sure I would have less family members flying with me but I told the truth. I'm not afraid to die but I'm not going to rush it either.:wink2:

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Notice that henning loves the last word but in many instances he's wrong. Just check the faa accident reports often. You'll immed. See what I mean.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Did you folks know every 33 seconds someone dies of cardiovascular disease?

http://www.theheartfoundation.org/heart-disease-facts/heart-disease-statistics/


Flying IS dangerous and I would tell my family that. Sure I would have less family members flying with me but I told the truth. I'm not afraid to die but I'm not going to rush it either.:wink2:

Yes they do die of cardio disease and unfortunately many times they are at the controls of an airplane when it happens. Happens quite often. An excellent candidate could be the very recent 180 Cessna pilot in New England.

 

[el con]

Yes they do die of cardio disease and unfortunately many times they are at the controls of an airplane when it happens. Happens quite often. An excellent candidate could be the very recent 180 Cessna pilot in New England.

Yep, also happen a lot more in cars, trucks and semi's.
At least in most planes there another yoke in front of the co pilot seat( exception-some Beech products), and with a little training maybe the rest in the plane may survive.
Planes? the word "many" might be excessive," some" ? yes
If ya gotta go--- flyin is my choice all except the news media's sensational news coverage. When you're in a car and you die it's just another accident, you probably only make the local news, if you're in plane it's another trajedy on national news, Faa investigation, call your congressman, stop these planes falling out of the sky
Everything in life is dangerous,every breath you take is getting closer to your last. Face it the day we're born is when the count down clock starts
I could go on but I won't.( or shouldn't )

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Yep, also happen a lot more in cars, trucks and semi's.
At least in most planes there another yoke in front of the co pilot seat( exception-some Beech products), and with a little training maybe the rest in the plane may survive.
Planes? the word "many" might be excessive," some" ? yes
If ya gotta go--- flyin is my choice all except the news media's sensational news coverage. When you're in a car and you die it's just another accident, you probably only make the local news, if you're in plane it's another trajedy on national news, Faa investigation, call your congressman, stop these planes falling out of the sky
Everything in life is dangerous,every breath you take is getting closer to your last. Face it the day we're born is when the count down clock starts
I could go on but I won't.( or shouldn't )

That's only because there are many fewer aircraft flying than cars on the road. The coverage is sensational as airplanes are much more exciting to report on than a run of the mill car accident. Very doubtful that the person in the right seat of a plane is going to save it if you croak. Most wives, passengers, etc. have no idea how to fly. Flying IS much more dangerous than driving and it's proven by the accident reports. Really dumb decisions, many times by low time know it alls....but not always. Old tired aircraft account for a lot too. This probably accounts for the large number of aircraft that quit just after takeoff leaving the pilot to wish in one hand and ***** in the other.

 

[Eagle I]

OK, I've just kind of skimmed through this thread, but here's what I tell people who are concerned about my flying, whether they are passengers or just concerned family members or friends. GA flying is statistically about 6 times more dangerous than driving. However, most people who are injured or killed while driving are the victims of the stupidity, recklessness or drunkenness of others. Most people who die in GA accidents are the victims of their own mistakes. Sometimes it makes people feel better, sometimes it doesn't. It is what it is.

 

[cowman]

I've always said it's more dangerous than a car but less dangerous than a motorcycle..... also seen it put as 5x less likely to have an accident but 5x more likely to be fatal.

 

[Eagle I]

I've always said it's more dangerous than a car but less dangerous than a motorcycle..... also seen it put as 5x less likely to have an accident but 5x more likely to be fatal.

I think I've seen general aviation put at about the same level of risk as a motorcycle, but judging from the crazy people I see on motorcycles, that actually makes me feel better! I have seen people on motorcycles doing wheelies at about 100 mph on I-95. I can't even begin to speculate on the aviation equivalent of that!

 

[Jimmy cooper]

I think I've seen general aviation put at about the same level of risk as a motorcycle, but judging from the crazy people I see on motorcycles, that actually makes me feel better! I have seen people on motorcycles doing wheelies at about 100 mph on I-95. I can't even begin to speculate on the aviation equivalent of that!

Oh yes you can speculate. Consider the recent idiot in an aerostar who buzzed a buddy's house repeatedly at very low level while the buddy panicked and screamed for him to stop. He then elected to pull it straight up into a hammerhead ( a real tough hombre type) , stalled it and plunged straight down to a flaming Viking type funeral. Pretty damn equivalent to me! Even better! A wheelie is pretty tame stuff compared to that display.

 

[FormerHangie]

OK, I've just kind of skimmed through this thread, but here's what I tell people who are concerned about my flying, whether they are passengers or just concerned family members or friends. GA flying is statistically about 6 times more dangerous than driving. However, most people who are injured or killed while driving are the victims of the stupidity, recklessness or drunkenness of others. Most people who die in GA accidents are the victims of their own mistakes. Sometimes it makes people feel better, sometimes it doesn't. It is what it is.

Slightly more than half of all motor vehicle fatalities are in single vehicle accidents: http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/general-statistics/fatalityfacts/state-by-state-overview

 

[Eagle I]

Oh yes you can speculate. Consider the recent idiot in an aerostar who buzzed a buddy's house repeatedly at very low level while the buddy panicked and screamed for him to stop. He then elected to pull it straight up into a hammerhead ( a real tough hombre type) , stalled it and plunged straight down to a flaming Viking type funeral. Pretty damn equivalent to me! Even better! A wheelie is pretty tame stuff compared to that display.

Good God! What is wrong with some people???

 

[Henning]

OK, I've just kind of skimmed through this thread, but here's what I tell people who are concerned about my flying, whether they are passengers or just concerned family members or friends. GA flying is statistically about 6 times more dangerous than driving. However, most people who are injured or killed while driving are the victims of the stupidity, recklessness or drunkenness of others. Most people who die in GA accidents are the victims of their own mistakes. Sometimes it makes people feel better, sometimes it doesn't. It is what it is.

Most of the time I just shrug at the questions or comments if they are not specific as to 'How do you handle...?"

 

[FloridaPilot]

It also doesn't matter the age of the airplane either. Just yesterday 3 people died in a TBM flying over Cuba and they crash landed in Jamaican waters. The airplane was new but they suspect it was hypoxia.

 

[Jim_CAK]

To the Original poster -
I learned to fly right after the JFK jr. accident. The non-stop coverage had my wife convinced she was going to end up a widow raising a toddler.

I started taking her to a local college airport that had a lot of active flying. I would get them ice cream and we would sit and watch the planes for about an hour. She started getting the idea that every flight is not a death-defying stunt. People came back alive, looked like they were having fun.
As others have said, her concerns are genuine. She needs to see that safe flights are the norm.

My wife still doesn't like to fly, but every year or two she will ride along somewhere. I usually fly solo or with friends.

Like Henning said, keep showing up alive, and she will gain confidence in you.

Jim

 

[Jay Honeck]

It's just a data point, but we get a surprising number of pilots at our aviation themed hotel who DRIVE in with their wives.

Now this could be due to any number of things, from money to weather, but more than occasionally I get the vibe from the spouse that this is HIS thing that I don't participate in.

So, they will drive to the island, sitting in a two hour line for the ferry, rather than flying over all those cars and enjoying one of the most beautiful approaches in America. It's all so sad.

For me, flying is a social thing, and I am so glad that my wife is a pilot. I've owned our current plane since June 2013, and have yet to fly it solo!

 

[paflyer]

I think I've seen general aviation put at about the same level of risk as a motorcycle, but judging from the crazy people I see on motorcycles, that actually makes me feel better! I have seen people on motorcycles doing wheelies at about 100 mph on I-95. I can't even begin to speculate on the aviation equivalent of that!

How about "the urge to buzz something"?

 

[overdrive148]

How about "the urge to buzz something"?

One of the newly minted (young) pilots in the area I learned to fly decided it'd be a cool idea to show off to his girlfriend by buzzing the high school she was at. He did it enough times that they grabbed his tail number and he had cops waiting for him when he landed. Last I heard he was charged of something lke 1500 counts of child endangerment or something. Lost his license too.

 

[Eagle I]

How about "the urge to buzz something"?

Yes, that's probably the best analogy, although I can't say I've ever witnessed a buzzing, whereas I've seen plenty of apparently insane motorcyclists. Unless you want to count the R.I. Air National Guard C-130s that routinely fly over our house, just barely above the treetops. Does that count as buzzing? I always think to myself, how is that legal?

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Wives, relations, friends usually watch other habits. How you drive a car, your reaction to another driver, temper, habits, etc. this probably has a lot to do with their decision to trust their lives flying with a person. Many people just are not cut out mentally to fly but do it anyway. Even in the military where cadets are carefully screened, some nut jobs still make it thru. Women have flown aircraft for many years and in many instances are better than men. The women who flew things like B-17s thru P-51s, etc. etc. in WW 2 were top notch not to mention Russian women who flew combat and were deadly. More recently, three or four even flew U2s in dicey situations, navy and airforce fighters, on and on.