Earning Sport Pilot Rating North of Chicago

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PHILIP GUZIEC

Filing Flight Plan
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TurboM20E
Hi All,

My 17 year old son is interested in getting a Sport Pilot rating over this summer and has time availability any day of the week, but we are having trouble finding a school offering Sport Pilot. We have only located one school offering the rating and are ready to go but we are having trouble getting appointments booked (at all). Is anyone familiar with schools or rental plane/CFI instructor combos offering Sport Pilot within driving distance of PWK - say an hour or less? Well maintained anything would do - 152, 172, any trainer that qualifies.

Any leads would be helpful. AI and internet searching has been surprisingly unhelpful.

Starting PPL is sub-optimal for now, but the free time is available.

Thanks for the help.
 
Phil I don't know about UGN but we do have two LSAs on the flightline here at Clow (JW Aviation; they are Evektors.). I know it's a haul from up where you are. I'm not sure Skill (UGN) is doing any LSA training....have you inquired.
 
Your experience is not surprising. While many tout LS as the best thing since sliced bread, most flight schools and instructors don’t share that enthusiasm.
 
Presently, it seems that finding an examiner with 'DPE-SPE-ASEL' authorization is more difficult than finding someone willing to let you train in their MOSAIC-compliant airplane.
 
I know a cfii that flys bristells out of Waukegan. Lumina I think. I think skill aviation also offers LSA. City wings at 06c uses remos and flight design ctls.

I avoid executive whenever possible.

A warning... I only know how busy the flight school at 10c is, but it might be difficult to even get on a schools schedule to even start by the end of summer.
 
bonefishpete said:
Throw down the bucks for a PPL. They're good for life.
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Still, hours spent earning a sport pilot ticket go toward that. My school will happily train you for that, as it's essentially just an abbreviated private course.
 
Any flight school or CFI can train for SP even if they don't advertise it. However, it's new enough that they may be unfamiliar with it and need some education.
bonefishpete said:
Throw down the bucks for a PPL. They're good for life.
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He said, "Starting PPL is sub-optimal for now," which may mean medical issues.
 
Dana is spot on. I also started with Sport Pilot, but couldn't find instructors and plane for that. But you can now fly a Skylane as a Sport Pilot, so I'd have an in person chat with the school manager and explain that. I have a feeling that a lot of schools will still shy away from that - it's "New and Different", and although they won't say it out loud, Sport Pilot isn't "real flying" to them. They are wrong IMHO, but hard to convince them.

More important however.........

PHILIP GUZIEC said:
Sport Pilot rating over this summer
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PHILIP GUZIEC said:
Starting PPL is sub-optimal for now, but the free time is available.
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Plan on this taking more time. You're not going to get a Sport Pilot license over the summer. Maybe by Thanksgiving. You'll need 60 hours or so flying, plus 1 - 2 hours a day for a month or two studying for the written test. Then you have to find a DPE that has a time slot for you.

Between flight school schedules (plane and CFI availability), flying weather, the normal amount of hours a 17 year old will need to complete training, DPE availability, it's just not going to happen between now and August when school is back. Which is OK, but just keep this in mind when he's back in school and flight instruction get's harder to do, as it gets dark earlier in Chicago in the Fall.

AND..... if he can get the 3rd class medical, yeah, go ahead and get the PPL. Just makes things easier with flight schools, and you really don't save that much time vs Sport.
 
WDD said:
Dana is spot on. I also started with Sport Pilot, but couldn't find instructors and plane for that. But you can now fly a Skylane as a Sport Pilot, so I'd have an in person chat with the school manager and explain that. I have a feeling that a lot of schools will still shy away from that - it's "New and Different", and although they won't say it out loud, Sport Pilot isn't "real flying" to them. They are wrong IMHO, but hard to convince them.
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What I'm seeing is about the same but a wee bit different. A flight school I'm associated with has no problem training someone for a sport pilot certificate. But they d have an issue - and it might be insurance-related - with a pilot who has no form of medical clearance. I suspect we're in the same area we were it at the beginning of BasicMed.
 
I hadn’t thought of the flight school insurance angle. Sport Pilots might have a higher accident rate, but only because they flew the old definition (1250 lbs max) of Light Sport Plane which has a lighter wing loading, has more accidents on landing, etc. Now that a Sport Pilot can fly a Skyhawk, you'd expect the accident rate to be the same as a PPL flying a Skyhawk. But we don't have that real world data yet.

OP - any issues with getting a 3rd class license?
 
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Flying to Oshkosh 2026. Looking for pilot with like interest and skills to fly along in PA28. Flying out from Portland area on Monday July 13 and returning July 26 or earlier.
 
midlifeflyer said:
What I'm seeing is about the same but a wee bit different. A flight school I'm associated with has no problem training someone for a sport pilot certificate. But they d have an issue - and it might be insurance-related - with a pilot who has no form of medical clearance. I suspect we're in the same area we were it at the beginning of BasicMed.
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My experience with basic med, being one of the first to use it, was that it was a non-issue to the insurance companies.
 
WDD said:
Plan on this taking more time. You're not going to get a Sport Pilot license over the summer. Maybe by Thanksgiving. You'll need 60 hours or so flying, plus 1 - 2 hours a day for a month or two studying for the written test. Then you have to find a DPE that has a time slot for you.

Between flight school schedules (plane and CFI availability), flying weather, the normal amount of hours a 17 year old will need to complete training, DPE availability, it's just not going to happen between now and August when school is back. Which is OK, but just keep this in mind when he's back in school and flight instruction get's harder to do, as it gets dark earlier in Chicago in the Fall.
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I agree with this. It took me longer than I expected to gain my sport license.

I originally started many years ago as a teen but when I picked it up last year, the main issue I had was finding a DPE that does sport pilot checkrides and the wait times associated with it. Finding flight schools that offered sport pilot training and LSAs for rent used to be a main issue when I originally started but these days it's no longer an issue as I am within an hour drive of a couple schools that has pre-MOSAIC SLSAs (Slings & Pipistrel specifically) and multiple options that have Cessnas and Pipers that I could fly under MOSAIC (whether those places are willing to let a sport pilot rent them or not I'm not sure, I haven't called them yet).
 
midlifeflyer said:
Great you had no issues with your insurer. That isns't what I saw at the very beginning.
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Agree insurers don't have a problem with Basic Med.

BUT.... the OP's son isn't getting Basic Med; Basic Med isn't relevant to the issue. He's going to be flying on a Driver's License / Sport Pilot. While I have high confidence that a person flying a Skyhawk on a Driver's License will be just as safe as a person with a 3rd class or Basic Med, I'm guessing the insurance people just don't have the real world data to calculate with at this time.

IF there is indeed an issue with flight school insurance, it might be because of the data. The data they have for Sport Pilots are people flying LSA's, which given the light wing loading do have higher accident rates especially on landing.
 
Thanks all for the responses. In my search, Stick and Rudder at UGN said insurance was the reason they weren't offering sport pilot. I decided to look for schools that actively stated on their website that they offered Sport Pilot ratings. We landed at CityWings at 06C and found availability to match his schedule 3 times per week (when weather complies) in the LSAs they offered there.

He will get it done in whatever time he gets it done, whatever it takes. He has been flying with me since about 10, taking the yoke and turning and such, and must have 50 hours of sim (MS Flight Simulator) with 20 actually practicing landings and he is a really diligent type, but we will see how it goes. His summer activities consist of wrestling practice, flying, and a girlfriend. He doesn't turn 17 until end of October and wrestling season doesn't start until November.

Just for giggles, I pulled out my logbook and my first intro flight was 8/30/94 and PPL checkride was 11/30/1994 at 51.9 hours. I have heard that it is more difficult to get a PPL these days. I believe it, but I have to wonder how planes got so much harder to fly and how navigation got so much harder over the past 30 years using 2 or 3 moving map GPS screens than it was in a 152 with one mechanical VOR that you had to switch back and forth frequencies to triangulate your location.

Snarkyness aside, just for my curiosity, aside from examiner availability, what makes it so much more difficult (tedious?) these days?
 
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bbchien said:
Phil I don't know about UGN but we do have two LSAs on the flightline here at Clow (JW Aviation; they are Evektors.). I know it's a haul from up where you are. I'm not sure Skill (UGN) is doing any LSA training....have you inquired.
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Thanks Doc. It was a balancing act of location and availability and SportPilot focus. Had I not found the setup I had, I would have reached out to Skill.
 
Probably taking more hours than in 1975 because you have to learn flying in busier airspace, a lot more radio work, modern avionics / ADSB, and more rigid testing criteria. Not sure if the 3 hour IFR training was required back in the day, etc. I can also see that the accident rate has gone down, which is a good thing.

The average time to get a PPL is 60 - 70 hours. Probably lower on the curve for younger people, a bit higher time for older folks. (I started my training at 56).

BONUS: Have you checked out rental availability for a Sport Pilot that doesn't have a 3rd class medical? If some schools are shying away from Sport because of that, are there places that will rent a Skyhawk to your son with a Sport Pilot and no medical?

AND.... great that you found a school that will teach Sport Pilot. Will they be teaching on a Skyhawk or LSA? IMHO I have him train on a Skyhawk/Cherokee/typical PPL trainer. Easier and maybe a bit safer to fly.
 
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WDD said:
Probably taking more hours than in 1975 because you have to learn flying in busier airspace, a lot more radio work, modern avionics / ADSB, and more rigid testing criteria. Not sure if the 3 hour IFR training was required back in the day, etc. I can also see that the accident rate has gone down, which is a good thing.

The average time to get a PPL is 60 - 70 hours. Probably lower on the curve for younger people, a bit higher time for older folks. (I started my training at 56).

BONUS: Have you checked out rental availability for a Sport Pilot that doesn't have a 3rd class medical? If some schools are shying away from Sport because of that, are there places that will rent a Skyhawk to your son with a Sport Pilot and no medical?

AND.... great that you found a school that will teach Sport Pilot. Will they be teaching on a Skyhawk or LSA? IMHO I have him train on a Skyhawk/Cherokee/typical PPL trainer. Easier and maybe a bit safer to fly.
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I recall some time under the hood. Can't recall if it was 3 hours, but sounds about right. I'm curious if any CFIs or anyone involved in the training back then can share their impression of the difference. I heard somewhere that the oral is dramatically more difficult. If that is true, I'd love to know the sequence of FAA edicts... err... guidance that led.

Its a Remos GX. We will get through the Sport Pilot hoop then worry about aircraft availability. Stalls slower, cruises faster, and same glide ratio as the 152 I trained in. Why is it harder to fly?

Technically my M20E qualifies for Sport Pilot... after a boatload of transition training, dual from a Mooney CFI, and many hours with me. Insurance is another matter...
 
LSA - so I've read about - are harder to land because of lighter wing loading. LSA's do have a higher accident rate, primarily on landing.

Agree - would also like to hear from older CFI's on their opinions on if / why a student needs more hours today vs 30 years ago.

Anyway - post up pictures and updates as your son does his training!
 
Dana said:
This. But it makes you a better pilot.
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Yes. He had a choice at one school between 152 and 172, and I was going to have him use the 152 for just this reason. Rather have him able to manage energy and think ahead of the airplane than to just point the nose toward the runway.
 
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