EAA event but no EA allowed

[S Joslin]

Thank you, kind sir. My Google-Fu was unable to find an example like this...

 

[tsts4]

No problem at all. In fact, the last several YE events I've flown at only had one E-AB aircraft attend...mine. I could care less. If it wasn't for the other 7-10 planes that showed up, that weren't E-AB's, there's no way we could have flown 100 kids that day. That's NOT my argument. Again...it's okay to "expose" other kids to E-AB aircraft, but not Boy Scouts?

You're missing the point of YE events which is to expose kids to Aviation -- Period. From the EAA website: "The EAA Young Eagles Program was developed in 1992 to welcome young people into the world of aviation. Aviation is exciting and vital to our nation's future and the best way to convey that message is to actually experience flight in a first-hand setting."

Note the word "Aviation" and not "Experimental Aviation". Don't confuse the means to the ends.

 

[Lindberg]

No problem at all. In fact, the last several YE events I've flown at only had one E-AB aircraft attend...mine. I could care less. If it wasn't for the other 7-10 planes that showed up, that weren't E-AB's, there's no way we could have flown 100 kids that day. That's NOT my argument. Again...it's okay to "expose" other kids to E-AB aircraft, but not Boy Scouts?

Do you really not understand? The BSA is making a decision on how much risk it will accept. They're making that decision at a distance in time and space from your particular event, and they're making that decision based on generalities. Not making that decision isn't an option. They've got to quantify the risk so they know how great it is, whether it's within the range of acceptable risk, and whether they can insure it.

So they have to draw a line, and they drew the line at standard airworthiness certificate. It's actually a quote rational place to draw it considering the hodgepodge that exists beyond that line. They could have just as easily said, no flying, like the girl scouts. Or they could have limited it to only commercial pilots and commercial operators.

I see the irony in the local troop partnering with the EAA to do the flights, but it doesn't seem to be an issue if there are plenty of standard certified birds.

 

[Ghery]

I was a Boy Scout when I was growing up in the 1960s. My son went through the program in the 1980s/early 1990s. He made Eagle Scout. I spent almost 10 years as an adult Scout leader while he was growing up. Our Troop was very much into camping, hiking and other outdoor activities. A highlight every year was a trip to what was then Pinnacles National Monument for a weekend of rock climbing and rappelling. One of the member's cousins was one of the top rock climbers in the state of California. We'd have those boys going between pinnacles on Tyrolean Traverses. They had a ball. We took 9 of them to Philmont Scout Ranch in New Mexico in 1991. When we hit the activity that included rock climbing the staff was blown away by the enthusiasm with which our guys hit that rock. Of those 9 boys, 2 were already Eagle Scouts when we went and the other 7 made Eagle. About the only rule I recall that was drilled into us was the requirement that you had to have at least two adults along on any activity, no single adult supervision.

Now, my daughter was in Girl Scouts. I went on ONE Father/Daughter campout and vowed never to do it again. No liquid fuel stoves, no liquid fuel anything. They didn't even like my Coleman stove of the type I had been using since I was a kid (liquid fuel, don't you know). They would have had kittens if I had brought my MSR Whisperlight (the one all members of our Boy Scout Troop used when backpacking, the one I still have in my backpack for emergency use, the one that has you light exposed fuel to heat is up before lighting the burner, the one we never had an accident with). I don't know all the rules they had, but it took the fun out of the weekend. I was not impressed.

So, about flying Scouts. It would be fun to introduce kids to flying. Perhaps I'll get the opportunity some day.

 

[denverpilot]

The accident mentioned by @denverpilot , above was a former military, current legacy captain, and experienced in the accident airplane.

Without being too harsh to his memory but I think it's worth saying, he also liked zoom climbs a little too much. And I'm not saying that as a poke at the never ending jokes about it here at PoA.

From all accounts he picked a bad day to do one and left himself no margin for error or failure.

That's all I feel like saying about that. RIP.

 

[James331]

There's no reason why aviation knowledge would be made a condition of employment by the Boy Scouts.

Agreed.

Now if you're going to be making rules about airplanes, probably should ether have knowledge about the subject, or consult someone who does.

 

[Everskyward]

Without being too harsh to his memory but I think it's worth saying, he also liked zoom climbs a little too much. And I'm not saying that as a poke at the never ending jokes about it here at PoA.

From all accounts he picked a bad day to do one and left himself no margin for error or failure.

That's all I feel like saying about that. RIP.

Agree. It's also a good example of, "the only hour that counts is the next one", when people are talking about previous experience.

 

[PPC1052]

Unfortunately it seems like that is the natural progression of any organization. They start small and for generally good reasons. Then the power-hungry (who are often p--- ants in their daily lives/work) ascend the ranks. A new rule follows every concern until it starts to look like our gov't. HOA's are a textbook example.

Yes. It's always a difficult position to defend when you think you are safe enough, and don't need to add additional safety precautions. When an accident happens, that one thing that could have (arguably) prevented the accident becomes glaringly obvious with 20/20 hindsight. Judges hate to turn the grieving away empty handed.

 

[BigBadLou]

Decisions like these do not usually come from the smartest people. Just look at the Chinglish in the message. *rolleyes*
I wonder what the turnout will be for this event. Please do report back with results.

 

[wanttaja]

Best revenge would be to ensure sufficient coverage for the event with certified aircraft, and show up to the Scouts Young Eagles event with as many cool homebuilts as possible. Let the Scout leadership explain to the kids why they can't fly in the homebuilts.

For even more fun, bring some (non-Scout) kids and fly THEM while the scouting leadership watches.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Do you really not understand? The BSA is making a decision on how much risk it will accept. They're making that decision at a distance in time and space from your particular event, and they're making that decision based on generalities. Not making that decision isn't an option. They've got to quantify the risk so they know how great it is, whether it's within the range of acceptable risk, and whether they can insure it.

So they have to draw a line, and they drew the line at standard airworthiness certificate. It's actually a quote rational place to draw it considering the hodgepodge that exists beyond that line. They could have just as easily said, no flying, like the girl scouts. Or they could have limited it to only commercial pilots and commercial operators.

I see the irony in the local troop partnering with the EAA to do the flights, but it doesn't seem to be an issue if there are plenty of standard certified birds.

Your post is logical, reasonable and lacks hyperbole. You need to review the forum rules. Your type of post is not allowed.

I agree with you though

 

[Jay Honeck]

Best revenge would be to ensure sufficient coverage for the event with certified aircraft, and show up to the Scouts Young Eagles event with as many cool homebuilts as possible. Let the Scout leadership explain to the kids why they can't fly in the homebuilts.

For even more fun, bring some (non-Scout) kids and fly THEM while the scouting leadership watches.

Ron Wanttaja

I did something similar when the Civil Air Patrol doofusses left several of our cadets in tears because they didn't have the paperwork from their parents filled out correctly. They wouldn't accept phone calls from the parents as proof that it was okay and were, quite literally, going to take the other cadets flying while those kids stood in the FBO, much to my anger and disbelief.

So, I took the three kids who were impacted over to my hangar, taught them how to preflight a plane, and -- after talking to each of their parents -- took them all flying. We had a great time.

That was the end of my two year stint in the CAP. I think my son and I went to three more meetings, and then ditched them.

 

[Palmpilot]

There's certainly no doubt that CAP is bureaucratic!

 

[S Joslin]

Well, here's a twist of fate: The BSA has, apparently, just changed their rules concerning experimental aircraft...

Good Evening

On behalf of the Boy Scouts (BSA) I wish to thank the EAA Young Eagles Pilots for this interest in providing our youth their "First Flight". Michelle Daniel's asked me to send out an email to all participants clarifying the BSA requirements and the purpose of this BSA / EAA event.

The BSA National HQ's and the regional Longhorn Council wishes to establish an Aviation Venturing Program in North Texas that is open to ALL young men and women, aged 12 to 19, who have an interest in Aviation. In support of this endeavor, EAA Chapter 34 has been gracious enough to allow the Young Eagles First Flight event to be held on April 16th to serve as our "Kick-off event". After this the BSA will be running a co-ed Aviation program at Alliance Airport once a month that will include Ground School and Aviation related career workshops.

In recent months the BSA national office rewrote its Aviation guidelines to encourage the use of joint BSA/EAA programs and the reliance on EAA leadership and experience in setting up Young Eagles Flights. Therefore the revised requirements as presented to the BSA Scouting community establish the same level of requirements for all General Aviation Aircraft (Production and Experimental). The specific requirements are included in the attached excerpt ("BSA Aviation Exploring - EAA Young Eagles Pilot Forms") and are summarized below.

(1) Aircraft: (a) Current Annual (Production) or Conditional (Experimental) Inspection; and (b) Owner Authorized Use

(2) Insurance - for EAA members only: (a) Insurance is covered by EAA supplemental; and (b) Pilot's Base $100,000 EAA required policies. No additional insurance is required.

(3) Pilot: (a) Current Pilot Certificate; (b) Pilot hours > 250 hours; and (c) medical certificates (if applicable).

If you are able and have not already submitted documents to Michelle, please fill out the attached BSA-EAA Pilot forms and return to me. I will consolidate all documents and then forward the completed packets to both the BSA and EAA leadership teams. In the interim, if you have any questions or need more information please advise.

Once again, thank you for your support of BSA Aviation.

Sincerely,
David G. McSwain
BSA Aviation Post 937 Advisor

 

[denverpilot]

Dumb. Not that the certified folks will tell them to pound sand until they get over themselves and their arbitrary views of safety, because "Think of the Children!", but they should.