E6B vs AirNav

marcoseddi

marcoseddi

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marc
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So I've been trying to learn how to use the E6B on my own and figured some things out and was testing some of the nautical miles and TC(True Course) answers using my new Sectional that came in the mail yesterday. Looking at some of the airports it seems as if Airnav gives me a different NM that my e6b does for example 47N to KBLM I get like 38NM and with Airnav its 29.7 NM is this normal such an un accurate EB6 to Airnav am I doing something wrong.
 
Excuse me. What are you doing with the E6B that is giving you distances and True Courses?

Typically those are done with plotters (glorified ruler and protractor).
While you might have an E6B that has a sectional scale printed on it I've never seen one that was useful for ploting courses.

The distance scale on a sectional isn't constant across the chart by the way, but it should be off by as much as you mention.
 
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At work, so no access to a sectional to check, but running it through FlyQ it's coming up as 29.7. You could accidentally be using the WAC or TAC scales instead of the sectional scale when measuring it out.
 
The computer tools will always give great circle courses, slightly different than courses plotted on a sectional (plotted and measured with a plotter, not an E6B. The error you site seems too high, however.

FWIW, I love the E6B. Work through the sample problems in the book that comes with it a few times. If you understand ratios, you'll be fine with the E6B.

Eric
 
I just put my plotter on Monmouth-Kupper and got about 30NM.
Are you sure you're not measuring the distance to Solberg or Somerset?
 
Take a picture of what you're doing and post it so we can help you.

ericd said:
The computer tools will always give great circle courses, slightly different than courses plotted on a sectional (plotted and measured with a plotter, not an E6B. The error you site seems too high, however.
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Sectional charts use a Lambert conformal conic projection which will approximate a great circle route. This is why lines of latitude on a sectional chart are curved. But that's really just trivia. It shouldn't make a difference over such a small distance as 30 NM.
 
Take the E6B and toss it. ;)

Most worthless thing in your flight bag.:yes:

I see it as a distraction from learning, not a tool to help. GPS, smart phone apps, calculators, IPads, these are the relevant tools of the pilots today.

JMHO. :D
 
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Geico266 said:
Take the E6B and toss it. ;)

Most worthless thing in your flight bag.:yes:

I see it as a distraction from learning, not a tool to help. GPS, smart phone apps, calculators, IPads, these are the relevant tools of the pilots today.

JMHO. :D
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Still need to pass the written and know how to do it.. Although I do agree that its all bs because i will use those tools as well. However knowing how to do it wont hurt.
 
Geico266 said:
Take the E6B and toss it. ;)

Most worthless thing in your flight bag.:yes:

I see it as a distraction from learning, not a tool to help. GPS, smart phone apps, calculators, IPads, these are the relevant tools of the pilots today.

JMHO. :D
Click to expand...

And we ALL know technology never fails while a human powered mechanical tool is notoriously unreliable..... :D
 
Without watching what you're doing, it's not likely we'll figure out what you're doing wrong. Try having your instructor teach you how to use the device rather than trying to teach yourself.
 
Geico266 said:
Take the E6B and toss it. ;)

Most worthless thing in your flight bag.:yes:

I see it as a distraction from learning, not a tool to help. GPS, smart phone apps, calculators, IPads, these are the relevant tools of the pilots today.

JMHO. :D
Click to expand...

Gotta disagree. I'm probably in the minority of students, but I don't own a smart phone, iPad, GPS, or a calculator outside of my abacus (ok, maybe not that far.) E6B's still relevant, the electronic options are just that, alternative options, and I actually enjoyed learning and using the E6B. I haven't seen anything that would make me replace it with an electronic aid yet, but I guess it's personal preference.
 
marcoseddi said:
So I've been trying to learn how to use the E6B on my own and figured some things out and was testing some of the nautical miles and TC(True Course) answers using my new Sectional that came in the mail yesterday. Looking at some of the airports it seems as if Airnav gives me a different NM that my e6b does for example 47N to KBLM I get like 38NM and with Airnav its 29.7 NM is this normal such an un accurate EB6 to Airnav am I doing something wrong.
Click to expand...

I don't think you're going to get a good answer over the internet. I can't tell if you're having problems with the E6-B part, which is a just a manual calculator or the the plotter that fits inside the E6-B.

Your CFI or ground school instructor should be able to clear up any questions you have. You could try to self-teach from the FAA Pilot's Manual of Aeronautical Knowledge, but I really think learning with a real person is more efficient.
 
Geico266 said:
Take the E6B and toss it. ;)

Most worthless thing in your flight bag.:yes:

I see it as a distraction from learning, not a tool to help. GPS, smart phone apps, calculators, IPads, these are the relevant tools of the pilots today.

JMHO. :D
Click to expand...

I'd respectfully disagree, FWIW.

It seems to me that ded reckoning and traditional pilotage are kind of becoming lost arts with yoke mounted GPS units, tablets and so on.
 
poweroff360 said:
I'd respectfully disagree, FWIW.

It seems to me that ded reckoning and traditional pilotage are kind of becoming lost arts with yoke mounted GPS units, tablets and so on.
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If I was still instructing, the GPS and tablets would stay in the back seat until after a successful checkride.

Bob Gardner
 
marcoseddi said:
So I've been trying to learn how to use the E6B on my own and figured some things out and was testing some of the nautical miles and TC(True Course) answers using my new Sectional that came in the mail yesterday. Looking at some of the airports it seems as if Airnav gives me a different NM that my e6b does for example 47N to KBLM I get like 38NM and with Airnav its 29.7 NM is this normal such an un accurate EB6 to Airnav am I doing something wrong.
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The E6B is not used to measure distance off a chart, so none of this makes sense.
If you are talking about a plotter, which is a device used to measure distance off a chart, my guess is that you are getting nautical and statute mixed up, or maybe sectional and TCA or WAC (some plotters are set up to work with these various scales, but you have to pay attention to which scale you're using).

But if that's too complicated, there's an easier way to do this, without even a plotter:

The chart has a scale line, at the bottom. Take a piece of paper, put the corner of the paper on 47N, lay the edge of the paper so part of it touches KBLM, then mark the edge of the paper at KBLM. Now lay the edge of the paper against the scale line, and read the distance shown at your mark on the edge of the paper. You can also do this with a piece of string.
But bear in mind that charts have a statute and nautical scale line.
 
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Geico266 said:
Take the E6B and toss it. ;)

Most worthless thing in your flight bag.:yes:

I see it as a distraction from learning, not a tool to help. GPS, smart phone apps, calculators, IPads, these are the relevant tools of the pilots today.

JMHO. :D
Click to expand...

:confused:
Sarcastic much?

A whiz wheel does all the same stuff (as far as nav problems go), only a little slower. But it does boot instantly, so it could be argued that it's faster. :D
 
dmspilot said:
Sectional charts use a Lambert conformal conic projection which will approximate a great circle route. This is why lines of latitude on a sectional chart are curved. But that's really just trivia. It shouldn't make a difference over such a small distance as 30 NM.
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You beat me to it... :D
I figured this out the first time I tried to draw a course line across two sectionals, by first laying the sectionals square to each other. :lol:
 
rottydaddy said:
:confused:
Sarcastic much?

A whiz wheel does all the same stuff (as far as nav problems go), only a little slower. But it does boot instantly, so it could be argued that it's faster. :D
Click to expand...

Maybe I should change the batteries in mine and try it again. ;)

Just my opinion. E6B makes a great indoor Frisbee when you get weathered in somewhere. :D

:lol:
 
marcoseddi said:
To 47n
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47N is KUPPER. It's only delusions of grandeur that it's now known as Central New Jersey Interantional or whatever they're calling it now.

As stated, I plopped my plotter down on BLM to 47N. The chart is a couple of years old, but I don't think the airports have moved. Depending on where I center the marks, I get a slight variation, but it's close enough to 30NM for any reasonable flight planning. To get the number you have, I have to reach further from BLN to the airports of N51 or SMQ. Are you sure you're using the right airport?

A plotter scale is pretty dirt simple. Place the zero end on one airport read the other. THere's no CALCULATION involved. As others have inquired, just WHAT ARE YOU DOING with your E6B to generate this number?
 
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za2yduvy.jpg
 
So, ah, how many miles do you fig'r it is from the end of your plotter to the start of it's scale?

dtuuri
 
marcoseddi said:
za2yduvy.jpg
Click to expand...
,
Aha, now I get it... your whiz wheel has a scale rule on the sliding part.
Offhand, I'd say trust that ruler and the chart more than AirNav. But the acid test would be to check the ruler against the scale rule that's printed on the chart (at the bottom).
I've used AirNav distances a lot for flight simulator planning, but only for preliminary planning for real flying. I prefer to draw a line on paper, using a plotter that matches the scale on the chart, but I'd also generally trust an aviation-approved GPS.
 
As pointed out, the scale starts not at the end of the slide, but at the mark next to the word SAC that says "0".
 
:redface: :redface: :redface:

It was so obvious...!!
But I think I'd notice it pretty quickly if I was actually laying out a course *cough* :wink2:
 
But on the plus side, he gets really good fuel burns.

I'm sorry, this might be the funniest thing I've seen in a long time. Have you never used a ruler before?
 
EdFred said:
I'm sorry, this might be the funniest thing I've seen in a long time. Have you never used a ruler before?
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Be nice, now.

Lots of people have never used a dial telephone, either.

We need to be more aware of what we take for granted. I don't think you can legally send an employee to the boiler room to get a bucket of steam or send them to the supply house to get a left-handed pipe wrench any more...mostly because the guy behind the counter wouldn't get the joke, but even if he did it would cause some butthurt which isn't cool.

But the younguns know Solidworks and/or Revit these days, which should tell you something. They can use the 3D printer to generate something that can't be cast, forged, machined or otherwise fabricated. And that has value as part of a contemporary social media presence with value-added tweets.
 
Don't feel too bad. For quite some time I took it for granted that that the end of my plotter ended at 50 nautical miles, when it actually ended at 48.
 
Only reason I thought it went to the end of the plotter was because the video I watched before hand did that which threw me off!
 
So, ah, how many miles do you fig'r it is from the end of your plotter to the start of it's scale?
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There's your problem, Marc. Put the "zero" mark on the plotter on the starting airport, not the end of the plotter. Have you been spoofing us :).
 
Hang in there, Marc. There are a lot of things to learn, and you are at the beginning.
 
marcoseddi said:
Only reason I thought it went to the end of the plotter was because the video I watched before hand did that which threw me off!
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:sigh: More reason you should be learning from a qualified human instructor rather than a video. Please work with your instructor. It's a lot harder to unteach bad learning before teaching things correctly than to just teach things correctly the first time, and that slows your progress.
 
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