dumb Q for tailwheel pilots

Tantalum

Tantalum

Final Approach
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San_Diego_Pilot
Any reason this guy didn't use any right aileron roll input or left rudder to offset the plane veering right and looping left? Seems like left rudder would have help avoid, and some right aileron into the cross wind

Looks like he was just along for the ride.. but not a tailwheel pilot so I don't know

 
I would have pushed the stick to the right when the right wing came up, and would have pushed on the left pedal to keep it pointed straight.
 
There is no difference in cross wind correction between a tailwheel and a nose wheel. Aileron to stop drift and rudder to track centerline. The only difference is in the tailwheel you HAVE to keep flying it to the tie down or else that can happen. That was just sloppy flying. In a tail wheel the aileron should be just about full deflection when you stop rolling.The wind didn't even look that strong from the looks of the wind sock in the beginning. He touched down ok, he just never increased the aileron input as he slowed. After a second look, it seemed he had No crosswind correction in. Even when the wing came up the ailerons never deflected.

Bob
 
I agree with the assessment above. He may have come in a little fast, but mostly he stopped flying the plane somewhere between the 0:15 and 0:18 marks.
 
unsafervguy said:
There is no difference in cross wind correction between a tailwheel and a nose wheel. Aileron to stop drift and rudder to track centerline. The only difference is in the tailwheel you HAVE to keep flying it to the tie down or else that can happen. That was just sloppy flying. In a tail wheel the aileron should be just about full deflection when you stop rolling.The wind didn't even look that strong from the looks of the wind sock in the beginning. He touched down ok, he just never increased the aileron input as he slowed. After a second look, it seemed he had No crosswind correction in. Even when the wing came up the ailerons never deflected.

Bob
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Aileron to stop drift/track centerline... rudder to align longitudinal axis with certerline.

But close enough
 
Not much crosswind in that video. He was fast, started a pilot-induced porpoise sequence, and it got away from him. The best action would have been to go full throttle and go around.
 
unsafervguy said:
There is no difference in cross wind correction between a tailwheel and a nose wheel. Aileron to stop drift and rudder to track centerline. The only difference is in the tailwheel you HAVE to keep flying it to the tie down or else that can happen. That was just sloppy flying. In a tail wheel the aileron should be just about full deflection when you stop rolling.The wind didn't even look that strong from the looks of the wind sock in the beginning. He touched down ok, he just never increased the aileron input as he slowed. After a second look, it seemed he had No crosswind correction in. Even when the wing came up the ailerons never deflected.

Bob
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That.

Also some tricks with the flaps he could have done to get more weight on the wheels.
 
James331 said:
That.

Also some tricks with the flaps he could have done to get more weight on the wheels.
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It looks like he tried some tricks with the flaps, after finishing his ground aerobatics.
 
I bet his underwear changed colors after that.
 
One way to make the first exit. He was along for the ride instead of flying the airplane till shutdown and
tiedown

Cheers
 
Zeldman said:
Everyone talks as if this wasn't a good landing.....Is there anyone else here that can drag a wing on the ground as good as this guy did and still make the turn off...????
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Bob Hoover can! Or could...RIP....
 
Sometimes it’s better to have a good 10knot crosswind and a narrow runway just to keep you working at it.

The only possibly tricky part of that ‘arrival’ was a slight crosswind being filtered through a hodgepodge line of hangars. On a good day you are prepared to compensate while on short final. On a bad day you react to it after it happens. On this day you should have stayed in bed.

Or just get a nose wheel


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Too many people think the flight's over once the wheels are on the ground. Even trike pilots do that, but at least the trike's wing is at a much lower AoA than the taildragger's and crosswind has less effect on it. Still, one should be taught, early on, to fly the airplane any time it's not tied down. Use all those controls, and lots of control travel at low speeds.
 
Stewartb said:
Not much crosswind in that video. He was fast, started a pilot-induced porpoise sequence, and it got away from him. The best action would have been to go full throttle and go around.
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Exactly. I remember getting myself into PIO a couple of times, while learning wheel landings in the Super Decathlon.. (one such landing captured on cockpit video:D). Fortunately I knew when to punch the throttle to max and go around. I had a damn good instructor sitting behind me, but sometimes I wonder how far he would have let it go before taking over. :eek:

By the way, that is the most fun plane I've ever flown!
 
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I've seen this video many times, and it does seem that the pilot was just along for the ride. Once the airplane gets out of control, you don't see any corrective control inputs coming from the pilot. The rudder and ailerons never move.
 
midwestpa24 said:
it does seem that the pilot was just along for the ride. Once the airplane gets out of control, you don't see any corrective control inputs coming from the pilot. The rudder and ailerons never move.
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That about sums it up. The pilot never appears to react to what's happening. But when things go sideways in a tail dragger, it happens very fast.
The entire incident from right wheel up to wing on the ground is about 2 seconds.
Some right aileron, a little left rudder, flaps up, and goose the throttle a little to increase rudder authority if required.
Learning how to recover from something like this is not a bad thing.
Learning how to never get into this situation is the best thing.
Knowing that sometime, somewhere, somehow it's going to happen to you is a sure thing.
 
Shepherd said:
Some right aileron, a little left rudder, flaps up, and goose the throttle a little to increase rudder authority if required.
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This. To a nosewheel pilot it seems counter-intuitive to increase power to regain control, but it saved my bacon in a Cub once.
Knowing that sometime, somewhere, somehow it's going to happen to you is a sure thing.
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Ah-yup. :oops:
 
Shepherd said:
That about sums it up. The pilot never appears to react to what's happening. But when things go sideways in a tail dragger, it happens very fast.
The entire incident from right wheel up to wing on the ground is about 2 seconds.
Some right aileron, a little left rudder, flaps up, and goose the throttle a little to increase rudder authority if required.
Learning how to recover from something like this is not a bad thing.
Learning how to never get into this situation is the best thing.
Knowing that sometime, somewhere, somehow it's going to happen to you is a sure thing.
Click to expand...

Yup. Every now and then the Luscombe wants to lift a wing, when I'm not paying enough attention to the ailerons. :rolleyes:
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Not me! I have never... err... well, hardly ever... um... OK, yea, I have had a couple wake up moments.
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Ha!

I can honestly say after 1700 hours in a tailwheel Maule, I never ground looped. I scared myself awake a few times but kept it more or less straight.

There have been a few Olympic quality bounces.

The worse looking landing had me rolling it off the runway and stopping it at a time 45 dog angle just short of the trees. Of course it was a Saturday cookout at the Homeport so there was no shortage of witnesses. It wasn’t until I parked it that I realized I had lost a tailwheel spring so the thing had been free castoring.




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Pilawt said:
To a nosewheel pilot it seems counter-intuitive to increase power to regain control, but it saved my bacon in a Cub once.
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Same can be said for lots of first-time jet ski/pwc riders!
 
Bill Watson said:
It wasn’t until I parked it that I realized I had lost a tailwheel spring so the thing had been free castoring.
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I had that same thing happen to me in a Champ once. About 2 seconds after touchdown the landing got really squirrely, and the best I could do was try to corral the plane off the paved runway onto the grass. Wasn't until I got it parked that I realized only one rudder pedal was connected to the tailwheel. A little tap on the right pedal and we'd turn to the right, like normal. Left pedal... hardly anything.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Too many people think the flight's over once the wheels are on the ground. Even trike pilots do that, but at least the trike's wing is at a much lower AoA than the taildragger's and crosswind has less effect on it. Still, one should be taught, early on, to fly the airplane any time it's not tied down. Use all those controls, and lots of control travel at low speeds.
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Not always a option, sometime knowing when to convert it to a three point is the best answer, there are quite a few strips where you get to a point that you're committed, you ARE going to be a full stop, just a matter of how.
 
James331 said:
Not always a option, sometime knowing when to convert it to a three point is the best answer, there are quite a few strips where you get to a point that you're committed, you ARE going to be a full stop, just a matter of how.
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Then there’re former glider pilots like me. Having logged close to 50 off field landings in an aircraft where there’s only one shot, I have hard time giving up on an approach. I can’t ever remember taking the Maule around unless there were deer, though I did learn that a little power could improve an otherwise exciting touch down.

I’m still learning that sometimes it’s better to just go around and do it again.


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Bill Watson said:
Then there’re former glider pilots like me. Having logged close to 50 off field landings in an aircraft where there’s only one shot, I have hard time giving up on an approach. I can’t ever remember taking the Maule around unless there were deer, though I did learn that a little power could improve an otherwise exciting touch down.

I’m still learning that sometimes it’s better to just go around and do it again.


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If you come in fast enough, then even in a glider a go-around may be a good idea! ;)
 
Tantalum said:
Looks like he was just along for the ride..
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You nailed it in your initial assessment. The pilot is frozen.

You can see absolutely no movement of controls once the camera is showing them.

Can’t land anything that way properly. But especially not a taildragger.

Local story is a recent taildragger damaged in a landing that went off the runway and played tag with some raised runway and/or taxiway lights was a student who froze on the controls and the instructor couldn’t overcome the stick forces and frozen rudder pedals the student gifted them with (or slap the student upside the head quick enough to get them to retract their limbs and let go in natural self defense).
 
Tantalum said:
Any reason this guy didn't use any right aileron roll input or left rudder to offset the plane veering right and looping left? Seems like left rudder would have help avoid, and some right aileron into the cross wind

Looks like he was just along for the ride.. but not a tailwheel pilot so I don't know

Click to expand...
Here is the best answer!

 

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iamtheari said:
If you come in fast enough, then even in a glider a go-around may be a good idea! ;)
Click to expand...

Have actually done that, along with some other guys, in Florida, multiple times on one flight.


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