Driving a Semi Tractor for Fun

Ted

Ted

The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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A friend of ours picked up an old '74 Kenworth K100 cabover in Colorado and spent the night at our house on the way back home to Ohio. Really cool old thing. So now my wife thinks we should get an old semi truck to pick up mom from the airport. I'm not opposed - one of the old ones with the 2-stroke Detroit Diesel V12s sounds like fun, although I'm guessing those are pretty hard to come by these days.

We have absolutely no need for something like this. We've just got a 20' car/utility trailer and a 23' boat. It would really just be something to play around with for fun and maybe go to tractor pulls, semi truck drag races, etc. with.

My question: If I'm keeping the weight under 26k, do I need a CDL to drive something like that? I'd figure the answer is probably yes, but have no idea for sure. My friend who stopped in has had a CDL since high school so it was a non-issue for him. I've thought it'd be fun to get a CDL, but it seems they make it difficult to get "just for fun."
 
Ted DuPuis said:
A friend of ours picked up an old '74 Kenworth K100 cabover in Colorado and spent the night at our house on the way back home to Ohio. Really cool old thing. So now my wife thinks we should get an old semi truck to pick up mom from the airport. I'm not opposed - one of the old ones with the 2-stroke Detroit Diesel V12s sounds like fun, although I'm guessing those are pretty hard to come by these days.

We have absolutely no need for something like this. We've just got a 20' car/utility trailer and a 23' boat. It would really just be something to play around with for fun and maybe go to tractor pulls, semi truck drag races, etc. with.

My question: If I'm keeping the weight under 26k, do I need a CDL to drive something like that? I'd figure the answer is probably yes, but have no idea for sure. My friend who stopped in has had a CDL since high school so it was a non-issue for him. I've thought it'd be fun to get a CDL, but it seems they make it difficult to get "just for fun."
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If I'm not mistaken, vehicles with airbrakes require a CDL. I was going to get my CDL because I'm licensed in the military for large vehicles. There is a military competency that only requires me to fill out paperwork, but I was told That any speeding tickets I got, the fines would increase. That was enough to steer me away.
 
Now that I think about it, that can't be completely right. My dad's RV has airbrakes and doesn't require a CDL. Maybe it's just when it's used for commercial purposes, I'm not sure
 
What kind of brakes do the 25,999lb RVs use? Just plain hydraulic?
 
I think it depends on state and vehicle. For example, my 45ft RV has airbrakes and a CDL is not required in Alabama but many other states do require a CDL. Don't know about Semis but am guessing they do not have the same exemption as RV's
 
Ted DuPuis said:
My question: If I'm keeping the weight under 26k, do I need a CDL to drive something like that? I'd figure the answer is probably yes, but have no idea for sure. My friend who stopped in has had a CDL since high school so it was a non-issue for him. I've thought it'd be fun to get a CDL, but it seems they make it difficult to get "just for fun."
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And check with your insurance company - they don't generally have "just for fun" rates for CDL's - so you'll pay insurance rates that are the same as for commercial truckers. (i.e. a lot).
 
I'm sure that GVWR has as much to do with it as the air brakes. Even if you're not towing 40Klbs down the road, your semi tractor is capable of it, which is likely how they draw the line on requiring a CDL in many states. Looking at the flow chart for KS, as long as he doesn't tow a 10K GVWR trailer he'll be fine without a CDL, lol.
 
deonb said:
And check with your insurance company - they don't generally have "just for fun" rates for CDL's - so you'll pay insurance rates that are the same as for commercial truckers. (i.e. a lot).
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This is exactly right. I looked at an old cab over once with a detroit in it but couldn't get reasonable insurance. They required I carry 1,000,000.00 liability coverage. The only way around this would be to install a bathroom in the sleeper and have it licensed as a motor home.
 
deonb said:
And check with your insurance company - they don't generally have "just for fun" rates for CDL's - so you'll pay insurance rates that are the same as for commercial truckers. (i.e. a lot).
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My friend who stopped in said that they did, in fact, have a "just for fun" rate of ~$200/year. He told them the use was just going to be for going to shows, tractor pulls, etc. with estimated mileage of <1k/year. The guy he bought it from ran another 5 semis for work, and those were apparently $1,700/month. The fact that he's only using it for shows might have been what made the difference.

bradg33 said:
Take a look at page 1-1 of the Kansas Commercial Drivers License manual linked below (page 12 of the PDF). There's a nice flow-chart (Kansas-specific) that'll tell you if you need a CDL. Based on your explanation, you won't need one.

http://www.ksde.org/Portals/0/School Bus/cdl manual Sept2011.pdf
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I'd tend to agree. The first part of "Is it a combination vehicle towing a unit over 10,000 lbs GVWR?" I think indicates that if it's a combination vehicle NOT towing a unit, i.e. the truck itself (which is what I'd be doing), it's fine if it's under 26k, which it would be. Or I could use it to tow my trailer so long as the combined weight was under 26k, which would probably depend on the truck.
 
I teased the wife that I was going to teach our 15 year old to drive in an old Mack B-61 :eek: ..two sticks and a knob for shifting... She was a little relieved when I showed up with an Audi Avant 5 speed for him instead. :cool:
 
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There are some gotchas that you need to watch out for, like needing to stop at inspection/weigh stations, and safety stops. Some of those older trucks have non-self adjusting brakes which need to be re-adjusted when they are hot, and out of adjustment brakes are a ticket item, according to my trucker buddy.
 
As a former (THANK THE LORD) truck driver, There are many gotchas. If you are independently wealthy and insurance, Mx, inspections are no issue, it can be fun I suppose. If I never have to climb into one of those things again it will be too soon.
 
Ted, I think in Kansas if the truck is licensed with a Farm tag you don't need a CDL to drive it. Might look into that. But I do think insurance on it would be a road block to what you want to do. Nothing is insurmountable, though.
 
GeorgeC said:
Now you just need a black Trans Am.
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I told my friend I should've made an 8-track for him with "Eastbound and Down" and "Convoy" to play on repeat the whole way back to Ohio.

My text message to him yesterday morning:

"Breaker breaker 1 9 this here's Kraut Burner you got a copy on me Prius Crusher what's your 20 come on?"

Matthew said:
Ted is fitting right in, in rural KS.
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3 tractors between the ages of 40 and 75, add a semi to the mix seems like a natural fit. Laurie wants to start tractor pulling and we've been discussing putting a flathead V8 in the 9N, which looks like fun (and the engine has a rod knock anyway, so why fix it when you could put in an engine with 5x the horsepower?), but doing it with a semi truck sounds like fun to me, too.

Sac Arrow said:
There are some gotchas that you need to watch out for, like needing to stop at inspection/weigh stations, and safety stops. Some of those older trucks have non-self adjusting brakes which need to be re-adjusted when they are hot, and out of adjustment brakes are a ticket item, according to my trucker buddy.
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I'm sure there would be gotchas. Although I'd be surprised if I ever ended up hitting a weigh station after driving it home. Would be something that would probably just be kept on back roads, etc.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Ted, I think in Kansas if the truck is licensed with a Farm tag you don't need a CDL to drive it. Might look into that. But I do think insurance on it would be a road block to what you want to do. Nothing is insurmountable, though.
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If the insurance was outrageous then that would be a definitely stop to it. Also registration fees. I'm not willing to spend much on the idea.
 
deonb said:
And check with your insurance company - they don't generally have "just for fun" rates for CDL's - so you'll pay insurance rates that are the same as for commercial truckers. (i.e. a lot).
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Lots of guys collect old military trucks. You can get non-commercial insurance for non-commercial trucks. This sounds like it may qualify for historic or period license plates.
 
If you're not making money with the truck, it's not commercial, if the state is trying to scam you (and that is a scam), I'd just take my business elsewhere and register in another state, most of my vehicles are registered in a more economical and constitutional state, no one bothers me, and for the VERY rare times someone asks

"I'm a pilot and travel, and I can only register in one state right?"

"how long have you been in XX state"
"This time around? Geese, not sure, not every long"


That appeases the very seldom person who asks.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Someday I'd like to see what a "full" tractor looks like.
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Megatron.jpg
 
I have my CDL and own a range of trucks including semis...every state is different but generally of you are over 26K GVW (registered max weight, not actual weight at any given time) you would need a non commercial Class A as long as you are "Not For Hire". Has noting to do with air brakes, is solely based on registered weight under 26K...although there is an airbrake endorsement also needed to be able to drive a vehicle over 26K that has airbrakes which creates some of the confusion out there.

Taking mom to the airport...not for hire use. Take the truck to a truck show, place third and win $100 prize...guess what, that is now considered a commercial application and you no longer "not for hire" even if it is a hobby. They are even coming down hard on weekend racers that are over 10K GVW with their trailers and have sponsor logos on their rigs. 10K is where most regulations come into play for commercial operators.

Used trucks are VERY cheap relatively speaking but they are maintenance nightmares. The "fun" is gonna wear off REAL fast I bet ya.

But yeah...is should be possible to buy a semi, register it with a 26K max GVW (that includes any trailer weight as well), slap "NOT FOR HIRE on the side to make it your daily driver and avoid all the commercial requirements. My Volvo 780 that we had was one of the larger tractors out there and that thing was 19K empty with no trailer.

You can get your CDL pretty cheap and easy in a week...but you would NOT wanna do that just for "fun". In CA for example, with a CDL BAC for DUI then drops down from .08 to .04 in any vehicle and if you get ant tickets you get double points and no traffic school for ANY moving violation (personal or commercial)...cuz as a "professional" driver, you should know better...plus you have to do a medical every three years that is pretty close to a Class 3 AME.
 
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deonb said:
And check with your insurance company - they don't generally have "just for fun" rates for CDL's - so you'll pay insurance rates that are the same as for commercial truckers. (i.e. a lot).
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My stepdad (does have a commercial) has a few semi's sitting around the property that he very occasionally uses. he calls up and gets trip insurance to use it for a few days when he needs to, vs keeping it insured all the time.
 
Shawn said:
I have my CDL and own a range of trucks including semis...every state is different but generally of you are over 26K GVW (registered max weight, not actual weight at any given time) you would need a non commercial Class A as long as you are "Not For Hire". Has noting to do with air brakes, is solely based on registered weight under 26K...although there is an airbrake endorsement also needed to be able to drive a vehicle over 26K that has airbrakes which creates some of the confusion out there.

Taking mom to the airport...not for hire use. Take the truck to a truck show, place third and win $100 prize...guess what, that is now considered a commercial application and you no longer "not for hire" even if it is a hobby. They are even coming down hard on weekend racers that are over 10K GVW with their trailers and have sponsor logos on their rigs. 10K is where most regulations come into play for commercial operators.

Used trucks are VERY cheap relatively speaking but they are maintenance nightmares. The "fun" is gonna wear off REAL fast I bet ya.

But yeah...is should be possible to buy a semi, register it with a 26K max GVW (that includes any trailer weight as well), slap "NOT FOR HIRE on the side to make it your daily driver and avoid all the commercial requirements. My Volvo 780 that we had was one of the larger tractors out there and that thing was 19K empty with no trailer.

You can get your CDL pretty cheap and easy in a week...but you would NOT wanna do that just for "fun". In CA for example, with a CDL BAC for DUI then drops down from .08 to .04 in any vehicle and if you get ant tickets you get double points and no traffic school for ANY moving violation (personal or commercial)...cuz as a "professional" driver, you should know better...plus you have to do a medical every three years that is pretty close to a Class 3 AME.
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Good points. As far as the MX bits go, you do realize that I fly a 40 year old pressurized piston twin that was purchased as a project plane, right? :)

I sent an eMail to my insurance broker. He said he hadn't gotten the question before, but would look into it and let me know what he found. Registering it with a max gross of 26k would be easy enough for us to do if we wanted and the fees don't look too bad if we do it that way.

Real thing I think would be finding one that was in reasonable shape and something interesting enough for what we wanted. The K100 my friend bought seemed to be nice mechanically and he managed to get for the mid 4 figures. Since trucks were meant to work, it's hard to find one that's both old and in decent condition.
 
I always liked the looks of the Ford CLT-9000, if I were ever crazy enough to want a vintage tractor, I'd be looking for one.
 
If you need a CDL. you will probably need a medical certificate. Think dealing with the FAA for a 3rd class is rough?

I gave up my CDL after not using it for 10 years. Seems like the state was doing everything possible to keep me from keeping it, so back to being normal for me.

I learned to drive truck in an old Mack that looked something like this one, but not nearly as well kept. I think it was a 1949 model. It was not built for comfort.
49loggerlrg.jpg
 
Bill Jennings said:
I always liked the looks of the Ford CLT-9000, if I were ever crazy enough to want a vintage tractor, I'd be looking for one.
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I like the way Kenworths look the best, with Peterbilt second (or tied, depending on the model). An old W900 a la Smokey and the Bandit is appealing. I'm more a fan of a conventional layout than the cabover (like having easy access to the engine), but it'd depend on what we found.
 
Up until the early 90's there was a pretty big truck stop right off the interstate near my old house. I'd drive past the lot twice a day on my commute. For Ted's info, it was right at the N/E corner of 119th and I-35, right where the Dodge dealer/Best Buy is now.

The model years then would have been late 80's to early 90's. I don't know why, but for some reason I remember liking the way those conventional Freightliners looked when they had the sleeper on the back and the fairings over the fuel tanks. They looked nearly as long as the trailers.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Real thing I think would be finding one that was in reasonable shape and something interesting enough for what we wanted. The K100 my friend bought seemed to be nice mechanically and he managed to get for the mid 4 figures. Since trucks were meant to work, it's hard to find one that's both old and in decent condition.
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The decent ones get pressed into seasonal farm duty like the sugarbeet campaign until they are not that decent anymore.
 
Matthew said:
The model years then would have been late 80's to early 90's. I don't know why, but for some reason I remember liking the way those conventional Freightliners looked when they had the sleeper on the back and the fairings over the fuel tanks. They looked nearly as long as the trailers.
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I've always liked the older look from the "good old days". Pretty timeless to me.
 
Before retirement I spent 10 years as a motor carrier officer with the State Police here in Idaho. The CDL standards are somewhat state by state but for the most part follow a national standard. The weights are GVWR, not GVW or registered weight. And then you have CGVWR, which includes what is being hauled and towed. GVWR and CGVWR is what the manufacture says it is made to handle. Clear as mud?
 
In Nebraska farmers can drive a semi without a cdl so maybe you can fit in that on your acreage. I used to have a kenworth conventional I built. Had a Detroit v12 with of course twin blowers but also twin turbos. I had the biggest injectors in that I could buy from Detroit. I had few other mods also. I drag raced it some and injected propane in then. It was over a thousand horse to ground and got 3 mpg if I was babying it. Made me slightly hard of hearing in my left ear. I also burned little transmission oil in the fuel. Man would that baby run. When racing I started out in 6th gear and dropped clutch at 4000rpm. Hit propane and flames would shoot out of stacks 15 ft.
 
djmcfall said:
Before retirement I spent 10 years as a motor carrier officer with the State Police here in Idaho. The CDL standards are somewhat state by state but for the most part follow a national standard. The weights are GVWR, not GVW or registered weight. And then you have CGVWR, which includes what is being hauled and towed. GVWR and CGVWR is what the manufacture says it is made to handle. Clear as mud?
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Definitely clear as mud. But as I understand it, then if I'm driving the truck itself with a GVWR <26k and NOT towing anything with it, then I'm good. Will still need to stop at the weight stations.

Regarding insurance, they came back and said $200-250/yr is what I could expect to pay given the "pleasure only" use. So, that's not a show stopper by any means. Property tax would be pretty low on one with minimal value, too, so it does look like it could be done relatively inexpensively.

Theboys said:
In Nebraska farmers can drive a semi without a cdl so maybe you can fit in that on your acreage. I used to have a kenworth conventional I built. Had a Detroit v12 with of course twin blowers but also twin turbos. I had the biggest injectors in that I could buy from Detroit. I had few other mods also. I drag raced it some and injected propane in then. It was over a thousand horse to ground and got 3 mpg if I was babying it. Made me slightly hard of hearing in my left ear. I also burned little transmission oil in the fuel. Man would that baby run. When racing I started out in 6th gear and dropped clutch at 4000rpm. Hit propane and flames would shoot out of stacks 15 ft.
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I was thinking that exact setup (didn't think about the propane though) would be fun to do. More likely I'd just hop up whatever engine the thing came with.
 
Additional question: is it doable to attach a standard 2" receiver for towing "small" trailers with a big semi like my 20' car hauler? I think the answer is yes. Curious as our Avalanche is a rotten tie vehicle.
 
weilke said:
Lots of guys collect old military trucks. You can get non-commercial insurance for non-commercial trucks. This sounds like it may qualify for historic or period license plates.
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I've always thought it would be cool to get a old military truck (Ex: Deuce and a half) on the cheap and just drive it on leisure days. Would be interesting to drive that to my airport. :D
 
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