Don't trust the AWOS ...

txflyer

txflyer

En-Route
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
4,509
Location
Wild Blue Yonder
Display Name
Display name:
Fly it like you STOL it ♦
It lies.

Sometimes.

I should have done a mid-field crossover and checked the sock. I could have avoided that quartering tailwind today and saved myself a rodeo ride. :yikes: Complacency is the mother of all ****-ups.
 
txflyer said:
It lies.

Sometimes.

I should have done a mid-field crossover and checked the sock. I could have avoided that quartering tailwind today and saved myself a rodeo ride. :yikes: Complacency is the mother of all ****-ups.
Click to expand...

Did you report it on the ASRS? that way it gets into the pipeline that the sensor suite needs attention?
 
June something, 2005. Arriving at KGLR after my one and only VFR-into-IMC encounter. The AWOS reported OVC025. No freaking way. It was more like OVC014 or so and felt like scud running, given that I didn't know the area very well.

Ceilometers are subject to a number of different errors, depending on the type, and the wind is notorious for changing and can be 180 degrees different from one end of the field to the other. No question, AWOSs lie: take them with a grain of salt.
 
The winds on the AWOS at my home field are noted "unreliable" in the AFD with winds from <say> 220-340 degrees.

Unreliable, like the night I was coming home and every field around was reporting 14 G20 and the home field's AWOS reported "Light and Variable", despite the fact that I had the controls on the stops to hold the C/L against the crosswind.
 
txflyer said:
It lies.

Sometimes.

I should have done a mid-field crossover and checked the sock. I could have avoided that quartering tailwind today and saved myself a rodeo ride. :yikes: Complacency is the mother of all ****-ups.
Click to expand...

Yep, been there, done that. Fortunately I only had it happen one time and I learned from the experience. After getting pushed down the runway wondering if I was going to be able to stop, I now cross check my GPS ground speed with my airspeed to ensure it is less than my air speed. It makes a quick easy sanity check on final.
 
Last edited:
Fly the airplane. I use automated weather as a heads up, not as my only source of info.
 
Doggtyred said:
Did you report it on the ASRS? that way it gets into the pipeline that the sensor suite needs attention?
Click to expand...

ASRS is not the most efficient way to deal with an erroneously reporting AWOS system. Mention it to the airport manager. That said, in variable wind conditions, the AWOS can be all over the place.
 
Dropping my plane off for annual the other day. AWOS indicating 17 is the runway to use. Crosswind entry into the pattern only to see both windsocks telling me 35 is the way to go. Glad I looked. This AWOS also has a comment at the end about winds being unreliable. They might as well leave them out.
 
I just got my plane out of annual today and I was sloppy. I always check the sock flying the ground loop queen. And I relaxed when the mains touched. I quit flying. Blasphemy.

I had a greaser touch and go earlier at another field and that brainwashed me. I had one of my best and worst landings in one day.

Not proud of myself. :sad:
 
Hell, sometimes even the windsocks at opposite ends of the field point in different directions.
 
I've arrived at a Class C airport and heard SCT025 on ATIS, while flying at 2000 and seeing the broken layer more than 1000 feet below me, obscuring the entire field except for the threshold (marine layer).

I diverted. No way that field should have been VFR. I probably could have landed in it (since the threshold was visible), but I had no idea about taking off again, or going around.
 
flyingron said:
Hell, sometimes even the windsocks at opposite ends of the field point in different directions.
Click to expand...

BJC is infamous for this one - usually they are pointing at each other!
 
Check the windsock??

Watched a guy at my local field push his Bo out on a CAVU day, preflight, suit up, fire up, then shut down and push it back in. I asked he was OK, he said the AWOS was down!!!
 
Unregistered said:
Check the windsock??

Watched a guy at my local field push his Bo out on a CAVU day, preflight, suit up, fire up, then shut down and push it back in. I asked he was OK, he said the AWOS was down!!!
Click to expand...

Suit up?

CAP doesn't have Bos, and who else would wear a flight suit in a spam can?

Not all airports have AWOS….
 
MAKG1 said:
CAP doesn't have Bos, and who else would wear a flight suit in a spam can?
Click to expand...

I've actually seen first hand some CAP (or possibly USCGA) guys in flight suits go out on a training 'mission' in a personally owned Bo.
 
My last attempt at instrument training was aborted. I had to fly from EYE to TYQ to pick up my instructor. Reports were few at 1500 (or thereabouts) over both airfields. I take off and turn on course, and see nothing but clouds in my direction of flight. I don't want to try to climb over, as I don't want to get stuck on top. I try to go around, and I see clouds to the east and to the west of course. So I just turned back to the airport of departure and landed, called my instructor and told him I wasn't going to be able to make it.
 
ChrisK said:
Probably USCGA.
Click to expand...

Yup. CAP has corporate aircraft these days, and personal aircraft are only used if no corporate is available -- which is very rare. And it has to have the FM radio and the DF and all that.

USCGA still uses personal aircraft.
 
MAKG1 said:
Not all airports have AWOS….
Click to expand...

A little field I fly to in Wyoming, 7,000 paved & lighted, got an AWOS last year. I figure they are going to get instrument approaches sooner rather than later. There's a big dude ranch nearby that has it's own ramp, fuel facility & hangar at the airport.

Anyway, prior to getting the AWOS, the jets would come and go just like at the big airports - they tended to land uphill and depart downhill regardless of wind. Probably a good thing.
 
Yesterday I called Marfa Airport (KMRF), a strip in far Southwest Texas, from our stop in San Antonio, because their AWOS was reporting clear skies but lower visibility in the 5 NM range.

Since everyone else was reporting clear and a million, and I had never flown in this area before, I thought a phone call was merited.

Luckily, the guy who answered the phone was the guy who had been the Flight Service weather reporter for the field, back in "the day". He was about 110 years old, but sharp as a tack and STILL ****ed that he had lost his job to that confounded machine. lol

He went off on a five minute rant about how inaccurate the AWOS was, with dust and bird crap obscuring the lens, etc. He was a stitch.

Bottom line: It was clear and a million, and we flew in uneventfully, although the DA was pushing 9000' at 98 degrees.
 
BTDT. In my case the wind was fairly light but it was still an eye opener. AWOS kept wavering on direction while I was headed to airport making it hard to choose which way to land. Was varying from favoring one end to the other, to dead xwind. I finally picked a direction and landed but the windsocks were painting a clearer picturer than the AWOS. Another lesson I learned is that if it's a toss up you might as well land going uphill! Obvious, I know, but I was 100% focused on runway heading vs. AWOS reported wind direction. I spent too much mental energy listening to random numbers from AWOS instead of looking at the windsock and thinking about the big picture.

Edited to add : The wind wasn't really varying that much. It was consistently about 70 degrees off runway heading. I think terrain or ??? was affecting the AWOS.

txflyer said:
It lies.

Sometimes.

I should have done a mid-field crossover and checked the sock. I could have avoided that quartering tailwind today and saved myself a rodeo ride. :yikes: Complacency is the mother of all ****-ups.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
txflyer said:
I should have done a mid-field crossover and checked the sock.
Click to expand...
Nah. You'd probably have a head-on with somebody else doing the very same thing. Circle the airport, not just the end of a runway.

dtuuri
 
dtuuri said:
Nah. You'd probably have a head-on with somebody else doing the very same thing. Circle the airport, not just the end of a runway.

dtuuri
Click to expand...

How does that work when both patterns are on the same side of the field?

That seems fairly common in the presence of noise abatement procedures.
 
One of my experiences with AWOS:

I was living in Kotzebue, AK, flying Piper Chieftains for a small commuter air service. I was flying to the village of Noatak up on the Noatak river. The AWOS was reporting winds from the north at about 35 knots. The runway is 18/36, 3000X50ft, so I set up for a long final to 36. About 2 miles out I noticed my ground speed was picking up. I listened to the AWOS again and it still reported something like; wind.....360 at 35. I just changed from a final on 36 to a tight downwind for 18, looked at the sock, which was frozen and pointed straight down. Looking at smoke coming from the houses and it showed a strong wind from the south. I continued the downwind, made sort of a tear drop turn to final for 18. At about an 1/8 mile final a moose crossed the runway. Not really anything to worry about so I continued. When I was about 50 feet above the runway, Mrs. Moose turned her head and looked behind her. I immediatly fire walled the throttles for the go around. At that point two yearling moose crossed the runway at about the same time and place I would have been if I had continued the landing. My chief pilot happened to be sitting in the right seat, never said a word, never acted like this was not a normal arrival. After we landed he did compliment me on catching that the AWOS was not correct. Then he asked me how in the world did I know that the two yearlings were about to cross the runway. Simple. When Mrs. Moose looked behind her, I knew one of two things were happening. There was either a bear after her or her offspring were following her. Either way I knew that continuing to land would develop into a bad day flying the Alaskan bush.

I guess I should elaborate, the time of year was November and that far north it is still dark at 10am, with a pink rosy glow on the southern horizon.
 
MAKG1 said:
How does that work when both patterns are on the same side of the field?

That seems fairly common in the presence of noise abatement procedures.
Click to expand...

I don't believe the OP specified a non-standard situation, but that's beside the point. If the airport has a noise-sensitive area to one side (or dangerous terrain, etc.), pilots ought not to be coming/going over it in any case--whether crossing over the middle or around the ends makes no difference. But if they must, I'd say circle the whole pizza well above the patterns then leave the area and descend to pattern altitude and reapproach for the approapriate runway direction.

I also think there's way too many of these "noise-sensitive areas" and should all be listed in Part 93, like Lorain County Airport in my neck of the woods. If they had to go through the legislative process maybe most of these flight hazards would go away: http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...0&node=14:2.0.1.3.11&rgn=div5#14:2.0.1.3.11.9

There's a music conservancy located south of the runway at Oberlin College. Except for IFR circling, which is not prohibited, they zealously guard this Part 93 rule.

dtuuri
 
Interesting that you mention KLPR. We just did a midfield crosswind entry into an empty pattern the other day (I was right seat) and my only comment was that we were technically violating the Oberlin overfly restriction. Pilot's (not entirely incorrect) comment was that we were at a low power setting and probably not generating a ton of noise.

When I flew up there with an instructor yesterday he reinforced what you said and how most people usually operate up there which is crossing over the field well above pattern altitude and doing a right (or left) descending 270 to join the appropriate downwind. Given how busy that place has been this week (I had a student in the CTLS within 100' of me behind and to the right that scared the bejesus out of me yesterday!) having aircraft circling and descending north of the airport can make for busy, fun times.
 
ChrisK said:
... how most people usually operate up there which is crossing over the field well above pattern altitude and doing a right (or left) descending 270 to join the appropriate downwind.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you must know that descending into the pattern isn't approved by any authority, official (FAA) or self-proclaimed (AOPA). Right?

dtuuri
 
dtuuri said:
I'm sure you must know that descending into the pattern isn't approved by any authority, official (FAA) or self-proclaimed (AOPA). Right?

dtuuri
Click to expand...
Imprecise language on my part. The descent was completed far enough away from the airport such that the pattern was joined at pattern altitude downwind at a 45 degree angle.
 
kyleb said:
The winds on the AWOS at my home field are noted "unreliable" in the AFD with winds from <say> 220-340 degrees.

Unreliable, like the night I was coming home and every field around was reporting 14 G20 and the home field's AWOS reported "Light and Variable", despite the fact that I had the controls on the stops to hold the C/L against the crosswind.
Click to expand...

A local airport has the same thing in their AWOS about the winds. The equipment is located in a berm near a tree line behind the fbo. :rolleyes2:
 
Our field's ASOS has a hard time with low level fog and southeasterly winds.

Our airport was build in the middle of a swamp and tends to fog up before any other place around here. However, the ASOS is built on an Alaskan riser platform. So it only "sees" fog that is higher then about 10 feet.

It has an issue with southwesterly winds because of a farm wind break tree line behind the station.

Our TAF very rarely takes in affect of the swamp.
 
txflyer said:
It lies.

Sometimes.

I should have done a mid-field crossover and checked the sock. I could have avoided that quartering tailwind today and saved myself a rodeo ride. :yikes: Complacency is the mother of all ****-ups.[/QUOTE

I fly at an airport on top a plateau surrounded by tree line. There are times the 3 socks do not agree indicate the same wind direction.
Click to expand...
 
Clip4 said:
txflyer said:
It lies.

Sometimes.

I should have done a mid-field crossover and checked the sock. I could have avoided that quartering tailwind today and saved myself a rodeo ride. :yikes: Complacency is the mother of all ****-ups.[/QUOTE

I fly at an airport on top a plateau surrounded by tree line. There are times the 3 socks do not agree indicate the same wind direction.
Click to expand...


Agreed. Sometimes different socks don't tell you much, but I should have looked for more visual cues.

I usually keep an eye on any smoke, dust, or anything that indicates wind, and I didn't that landing. I just trusted the AWOS and since it was home field, I let my guard down. It was blowing enough from the East Northeast that I'm sure if I had looked, the sock would have told me to land on 34 instead of 16 like I did.

No biggie. I landed o.k. and didn't bend anything, it just took me by surprise. I ended up going from bored to intense in a shorter time frame than I like... :lol:
Click to expand...
 
doesn't awos only reports what's exactly straight above the station? Point in the sky? making the data only useful to get a glimpse of whats out there, but you still have to rely on what you see.
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Back
Top