Dog dies in United overhead bin

James331 said:
I don't care about their policies, you still are a human and expected to act like one, telling someone to shove a puppy into a overhead bin should be beyond the realm of possible solutions to said problem for more civilized humans.
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The FA made a mistake and her employer owned up to it.
 
weilke said:
The FA made a mistake and her employer owned up to it.
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Accidentally spilling some orange juice on a pax is a mistake.


Cramming a puppy into a overhead bin until it's dead, that's called having a mental issue
 
Here's the United size limits:

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/travel/animals/in_cabin.aspx

I highlighted the specs:

>>>
A pet traveling in cabin must be carried in an approved hard-sided or soft-sided kennel. The kennel must fit completely under the seat in front of the customer and remain there at all times. The maximum dimensions for hard-sided kennels are 17.5 inches long x 12 inches wide x 7.5 inches high (44 cm x 30 cm x 19 cm). The recommended maximum dimensions for soft-sided kennels are 18 inches long x 11 inches wide x 11 inches high (46 cm x 28 cm x 28 cm). Soft-sided pet carriers may exceed these dimensions slightly, as they are collapsible and able to conform to under-seat space without blocking the aisle. With the exception of birds, there may only be one pet per kennel, and the animal must be able to stand up and turn around comfortably. Two birds may travel in the same kennel.
<<<
 
Matthew said:
Here's the United size limits:

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/travel/animals/in_cabin.aspx

I highlighted the specs:

>>>
A pet traveling in cabin must be carried in an approved hard-sided or soft-sided kennel. The kennel must fit completely under the seat in front of the customer and remain there at all times. The maximum dimensions for hard-sided kennels are 17.5 inches long x 12 inches wide x 7.5 inches high (44 cm x 30 cm x 19 cm). The recommended maximum dimensions for soft-sided kennels are 18 inches long x 11 inches wide x 11 inches high (46 cm x 28 cm x 28 cm). Soft-sided pet carriers may exceed these dimensions slightly, as they are collapsible and able to conform to under-seat space without blocking the aisle. With the exception of birds, there may only be one pet per kennel, and the animal must be able to stand up and turn around comfortably. Two birds may travel in the same kennel.
<<<
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Are two birds in a kennel worth one in the hand?
 
James331 said:
Accidentally spilling some orange juice on a pax is a mistake.


Cramming a puppy into a overhead bin until it's dead, that's called having a mental issue
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Do you believe everything you read in the paper? Do you believe everything you see on the internet? Especially Aviation related forums?

All we know for sure is a dog died.
 
James331 said:
Accidentally spilling some orange juice on a pax is a mistake.


Cramming a puppy into a overhead bin until it's dead, that's called having a mental issue
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You seem to have a mental issue. Usually I have you on ignore as I don't wish to read the inane crap that you typically contribute.

The FA didn't 'cram a puppy into the overhead until it's dead', she told the pax to put an oversize bag into the overhead. The mistake was not to remove the passengers from the plane at that point.
 
weilke said:
You seem to have a mental issue. Usually I have you on ignore as I don't wish to read the inane crap that you typically contribute.

The FA didn't 'cram a puppy into the overhead until it's dead', she told the pax to put an oversize bag into the overhead. The mistake was not to remove the passengers from the plane at that point.
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Crazy how people get all "triggered" so easily now days, perhaps you should censor my posts from yourself before you get emotional.

Anywho...

forest through the trees.

Telling someone to do something horrible isn't exactly any better than doing it yourself.
 
weilke said:
The max measurements for a pet-carrier that fits underneath the seat are published by the airline. They also publish what aircraft typess you can take pet carriers onto and which seats you need to be seated in. The pics of the dog and the carrier in the press suggest that both the dog and the carrier were too big to fit underneath the seat. This should have been sorted out during boarding and the lady, her baby, her kid and her dog should have been taken off the plane to figure out how they get the entire circus to NY.
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I already stipulated that... I’m sure it’s all on some website somewhere. Yay internet.

Like I said, the stupid is strong on this one. And quite broad, if that implication wasn’t received from the stupid part. There’s a whole lot of stupid here.

No disagreement with you on deplaning her to figure it out. You actually have to listen to customers to know there’s a problem, though. They’re not going to tell you what they don’t know about how you do business.

And definitely surrounded by general non-employee idiots who watched it all happen and said nothing until afterward.

By my count there’s at LEAST ten idiots in direct contact with the situation and multiple employees to reach this outcome. At least. Including the customer.

It takes a village. A really dumb village.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Do you believe everything you read in the paper? Do you believe everything you see on the internet? Especially Aviation related forums?

All we know for sure is a dog died.
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We also know “for sure” it was in the overhead. There’s plenty of witnesses for that.

I got a letter from a CEO just yesterday, explaining a massively negligent problem at his company. He posted the entire story on a public website and then sent every customer a link. An entire team screwed up, but he took personal responsibility for it.

So if the press really has it wrong, it’s awfully easy to fix that, if leadership decides to lead.

Secondarily, we like that vendor more today than we did previously. We know their top guy cared enough to provide all of the details. Quite enough detail to get a judge to allow a suit to proceed, and to win a settlement easily, if we had provable monetary damages.

We don’t, and we’re a tiny customer anyway of his product. But guess which vendor we like now?

Guy made every customer feel special and needed from a really stupid series of mistakes. Admitting fault without the details would have left it open to speculation. He slammed the door on that.
 
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denverpilot said:
We also know “for sure” it was in the overhead. There’s plenty of witnesses for that.
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Those overhead bins are not air tight. What I don’t understand is what exactly caused the dog to die. So I guess we know TWO things for sure. The dog died and it was in the overhead bin. I don’t know why being in the overhead bin would cause the dog to die.
 
so....why didn't the owner just buy the dog a seat....in seat/isle...."K"....."9"?:eek:
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Those overhead bins are not air tight. What I don’t understand is what exactly caused the dog to die. So I guess we know TWO things for sure. The dog died and it was in the overhead bin. I don’t know why being in the overhead bin would cause the dog to die.
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Pug breeds are very susceptible to tight, enclosed spaces - it has to do with the physiology of their nasal passages. If they cannot get fresh air, they will overheat, have no oxygen or both. With the limited air vents in most dog carriers and then blocking those vents with baggage on either side, it's not difficult to understand that it was a constrained environment. Could have also just been stress...if we put you into an enclosed box with little air, in near darkness and then jostled your around for several hours, I suspect it would be a problem for you too.

Regardless, handled very, very poorly. The flight attendant is there for the safety of the passengers and IMO, that includes the four legged ones that the airline agreed to transport. Huge fail.
 
It's possible that soft-sided carrier, being shoved into an overhead, then the overhead being shut, pushed the carrier, the dog, and the blanket inside the carrier to one side or the other, blocking any ventilation screens. Other luggage in that bin pushing against it probably didn't help either. It might not be air-tight, but there sure wouldn't be any air movement. Maybe that was the overhead that had the pillows in it? Maybe the owner used them for padding and that also contributed to blocking ventilation or hyperthermia? Dunno.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Those overhead bins are not air tight. What I don’t understand is what exactly caused the dog to die. So I guess we know TWO things for sure. The dog died and it was in the overhead bin. I don’t know why being in the overhead bin would cause the dog to die.
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The only thing I can think of is that you wouldn't know if the dog was in distress in the overhead bin, where you might know if it was by your feet. However, dogs travel in the baggage compartment without supervision. I'll admit that I had to consider this for a minute or two before I realized it wasn't such a good idea.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Those overhead bins are not air tight. What I don’t understand is what exactly caused the dog to die. So I guess we know TWO things for sure. The dog died and it was in the overhead bin. I don’t know why being in the overhead bin would cause the dog to die.
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Depends on breed. Numerous small dogs have breathing and other issues. And as someone else pointed out, other carriers have already banned them from flying with them.

The FA saying she didn’t realize it, I actually believe. But there were numerous other places the accident chain could have been broken.

And there’s still that leadership problem... we shouldn’t still be guessing by now. That one is easy to fix.

And the multiple idiot problem, considering the Village People all around sat and watched it happen.

Back to my original post, the stupid is strong with this one. :)
 
I doubt that Schroedinger would place his cat in an overhead bin. He wouldn’t want the possible results skewed.

And I wouldn’t allow my dog to be placed in one. First, I wouldn’t even consider taking him on an airline where his fate could be subjected to the idiotic whims of others. But if I found myself in that situation for some weird reason, I would refuse to follow that instruction and if that meant I had to exit the flight, then so be it.

I would also speak up if I saw that happening to someone else’s dog.

It definitely took a village to kill that dog. A village full of idiots.
 
All this talk about "well it is not airtight" etc. etc.

I doubt if you took a person and jammed them into an overhead bin, or equally tight crawlspace, surrounded by baggage, etc., giving virtually no actual mobility or room to breath, would not fair so well either after 3 hours.. especially if the person (like this breed) already has respiratory problems.

It's not enough to have the bin be non-airtight.. you need some air movement to move the air around

Plus, as others have said, that must be incredibly stressful for the animal, to be in a closed, pitch black space with zero movement. The dog was obviously freaking out, so it's going to be hyperventilating, etc. Dogs are not just biological machines, they're living animals with fairly complex emotions

This honestly seems like some of the most cruel and horrible torturous ways for a dog to die. I am absolutely disgusted by the story.

People around here freak out if you leave a dog in a car for 10 minutes with the window half open, and you can get in serious trouble with the law for doing that. What the FA did on UA needs to go to a criminal court. The FA killed the dog, and did so in one of the most cruel ways possible.
 
SkyDog58 said:
A village full of idiots.
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Yeah, seriously. Most people have zero ability to think independently or rationally for themselves.. "well no one else is saying anything"

I read some study somewhere, I forget where, but they brought in like 40 or so volunteers for a "a study," the volunteers were told to wait in a conference room until the organizer came to give their presentation. Well, what the participants didn't know was them waiting in the conference room was the study itself. The organizers of the study left the conference really warm, I think 80 or 85 degrees, but made sure that the thermostat was in a very obvious place for all to see

After about 20 minutes more and more people complained about the heat, finally ONE person got up to move the thermostat down, while many were chagrined at that.. and I think they did those over and over again with different groups and in some groups they all just sat there for an hour in an 85 degree room

Yes. Respect for authority. But, don't be an idiot.. sometimes you have to be a leader, not a passenger (pun intended)
 
Tantalum said:
People around here freak out if you leave a dog in a car for 10 minutes with the window half open, and you can get in serious trouble with the law for doing that. What the FA did on UA needs to go to a criminal court. The FA killed the dog, and did so in one of the most cruel ways possible.
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Criminal charges? It’s a property charge. Dogs, for the most part, are property and aren’t treated as humans under the law. The owner in most sane States should get exactly the replacement cost of the dog. That’s it.

Don’t get me started on the dog in car stupidity. The Village People will call the cops on a 60 degree day with every window partially down and the sun roof with a nice breeze blowing through it all too. LOL. BTDT.

Dog was happy, Officer was perplexed, and I was highly annoyed by the Village People, who remained anonymous so they didn’t have to show how dumb they were.

At first, the Officer even thought the dog was exhibiting signs of being in trouble... I showed him the dog just didn’t like him. Which said something. That dog loved everybody. Once I introduced her to him, she wagged and licked him though, so I think his appearance with the uniform just startled her at the window while she was trying to nap.

Too many TV commercials and news articles about the bad times to leave a pup in a vehicle, has led to the Village being a tad over sensitive about it. But then again, the Village is utterly stupid, so... to be expected.

db4516f6d2dbd7bfcc668474d79efcf7.jpeg


P.S. not my photo, in case someone doesn’t get around much on the Internet, it’s just funny and has been out there for a while.
 
denverpilot said:
Criminal charges? It’s a property charge. Dogs, for the most part, are property and aren’t treated as humans under the law.
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Yeah, I get that. But don't certain municipalities have laws on the books about animal cruelty? Either way.. this story sucks.

denverpilot said:
Don’t get me started on the dog in car stupidity. The Village People will call the cops on a 60 degree day with every window partially down and the sun roof with a nice breeze blowing through it all too. LOL. BTDT.
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Yes, everything in moderation. If it's 100* out and the windows are up we might have a problem. But if it's 60* out and the windows are half open and you go into an Albertsons for 15 minutes that's fine.. but people like to be a hero at the same time

Everything in moderation.

Love the picture by the way! That's hysterical "please don't break the window... listening to Steely Dan"
 
bflynn said:
if we put you into an enclosed box with little air, in near darkness and then jostled your around for several hours, I suspect it would be a problem for you too.
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You just described my house, when I'm going to sleep, during an earthquake. I'm still here... :)
 
Tantalum said:
Yeah, I get that. But don't certain municipalities have laws on the books about animal cruelty? Either way.. this story sucks.
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Yes it does, but I think you’d have a hard time pinning purposeful cruelty on the FA. Carelessness. Maybe. Cluelessness, for sure.
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
You just described my house, when I'm going to sleep, during an earthquake. I'm still here... :)
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LOL. I wouldn’t be surprised if my big dog goes out someday of a heart attack during a thunderstorm. That idiot ran and hid in a bathtub the last time I wasn’t home during one. He weights 90 lbs.

Oh goody. That reminds me that season is about to start. LOL.
 
So....how old was the pooch? Was it a healthy fella...or was it near death anyways?
 
weilke said:
The pet has to remain within the carrier throughout the flight. Unfotunately, many owners of small dogs are not the most reasonable people on earth and I have seen the problems that occur when they run into flight attendants who are told to enforce their employers policies.
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I figure the owner would deal with sitting with the container rather than the overhead. Yeah, I wouldn't want to be a flight attendant. I have seen dogs loose.
 
Everskyward said:
. However, dogs travel in the baggage compartment without supervision.
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Pugs don't. Most airlines won't accept pugs, English bulldogs, Frenchies and all the other fragile breeds for air-freight or checked baggage.
 
weilke said:
Pugs don't. Most airlines won't accept pugs, English bulldogs, Frenchies and all the other fragile breeds for air-freight or checked baggage.
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Yeah, after having one sounding like it was dying of asthma in the back of the airplane, I believe it. In that instance, it wasn't being restrained at all. I could say something about people who breed these short-nosed dogs who have chronic health problems...
 
Tantalum said:
I doubt if you took a person and jammed them into an overhead bin, or equally tight crawlspace, surrounded by baggage, etc., giving virtually no actual mobility or room to breath, would not fair so well either after 3 hours.. .
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Not entirely true. Flight attendants get up there.

images
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The woman was travelling with an 8 year old in a seat, a lap infant and a dog with genetic resperstory issues.

Lets just say that this passenger was almost begging for issues on thag flight.
 
n20junkie said:
The woman was travelling with an 8 year old in a seat, a lap infant and a dog with genetic resperstory issues.

Lets just say that this passenger was almost begging for issues on thag flight.
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Every parent has had a trip from hell with kids. Single parents or parents who have to travel alone a lot get a double share, single parents get it for life. Or until the oldest starts helping take care of the brood.

Usually there’s enough brain cells operating nearby to help them out a bit. I can’t tell ya how many times I’ve stopped some distracted parent’s kid from walking out into traffic at public places. It’s just part of society.

I’d like to think people were distracted like the FA probably was, but I fear they were really just too many dumb people around that entire situation that day.

Sitting there in the seat watching that go down, no. Get up and fix the stupid.

“Ma’am, that’s a live animal. It doesn’t belong up there.” Smile. Be nice. But stop the stupid.
 
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