Does any of this matter? (Diverting)

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4RNB

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4RNB
C172. Regular flights planned will be 3.5 hours but leave little or no comfort for fuel reserves. We have onboard lav service in a manner we'd rather avoid. Flew last week, filed most of the way to final destination but stopped early for fuel and bladder emptying in case we got put in a hold in wx that was not quite out of the area. Explained the reason to ATC. Return trip, filed the full route but stopped after 2 hours to stretch legs at the bladder full point, again explained why to ATC. On flight aware this is listed as "diverted".

I'd like to continue filing this way. FIle all the way or most of the way, stop earlier if needed for fuel or bladder relief.

Any issues with continuing to do this?
 
This is an example of the lack of real world training. There is no issue with stopping short when filing an optimistic flight plan. Don’t make the explanation to ATC too complicated. The diverted note in FlightAware is just the way it shows up. You diverted, no big deal.

I’ve never heard of it referred to as “on board lav service.” Is one of the passengers responsible for assisting everyone else in relieving themselves or do you have a working lav in place of the fourth seat and someone services the lab enroute? Sorry, I couldn’t resist having a little fun with this. Don’t answer these questions.
 
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I plan 3 hour legs for the reasons you mention. It’s just not fun landing and making the dash to the bathroom.
 
TrueCourse said:
This is an example of the lack of real world training. There is no issue with stopping short when filing an optimistic flight plan. Don’t make the explanation to ATC too complicated. The diverted note in FlightAware is just the way it shows up. You diverted, no big deal.

I’ve never heard of it referred to as “on board lav service.” Is one of the passengers responsible for assisting everyone else in relieving themselves or do you have a working lav in place of the fourth seat and someone services the lab enroute? Sorry, I couldn’t resist having a little fun with this. Don’t answer these questions.
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What has been absent in real world training?

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4RNB said:
What has been absent in real world training?
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There are some things that just don’t get taught because the CFIs simply don’t know. That’s why in the early hours after getting your cert, especially on cross country flights, you are faced with things that were never brought up in training. No fault of your own.

Yes, the travel John is a well known, and effective, “outlet”.

Enjoy your cross-country flights!
 
midlifeflyer said:
The are no issues doing this in every flight, bladder or weather.
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I'll go a step further. Especially when weather is a potential issue, we should all be considering what some refer to as "enroute alternates" – divert/continue decision points along the way. I talk about it in one of the PilotWorkshops IFR Mastery programs. After all, we are required by 91.103(a) to consider "alternatives available if the planned flight cannot be completed."
 
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TrueCourse said:
There are some things that just don’t get taught because the CFIs simply don’t know.
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And there are probably thousands of things that just never come up in the fairly short time allotted to acquiring a license to learn. I'm willing to bet if you learned to fly in Kansas, you didn't spend a lot of time on ocean crossings.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Where does it say something must be in the ACS to train it?
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I thank you for pointing out my deficiencies. I'm grateful in your making me feel welcome on POA with a better understanding of "there are stupid questions".
 
4RNB said:
I thank you for pointing out my deficiencies. I'm grateful in your making me feel welcome on POA with a better understanding of "there are stupid questions".
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I’m not pointing out your deficiencies. The comment was made that your instructor was deficient. I pointed out that these instructor deficiencies were the things you brought up in your OP. Apparently explaining the purpose of the ACS as a testing standard and not a training syllabus is another of your instructor’s deficiencies.

But if you want to take personal offense, that’s your prerogative.
 
I could have simply responded with simple answers to the OPs questions, but I added the bit about real world situations we experience what we are never exposed to in training. Maybe it wasn't the time and place since the pit stop question is a minor point, but it did made me think of the reality of what we actually miss in training. For the record, I wasn't actually stating your CFI was deficient and it is fair to ask; did the CFI even think this question would ever come up or that he needed to mention the scenario? Don't know the actual answer to that and don't really care to go any further with this.

The part about you having concern for leftover weather, a potential hold, and fuel reserves indicates you have the right frame of mind in your cross country planning and enjoy not placing yourself at risk. I think that is the big plus in your OP. And, here I thought teasing about the lav service was going to cause a stir.
 
IMO, if you are sure you are going to stop, file that way. If you are not sure, file the whole route and amend as required.

I was flying from ATL area to SE PA in a GA-7. Passenger REALLY need to go. So I requested a divert to LYH for "phsyiological needs." Controller was WHAT? OH, and a loud laugh on the radio. :D
 
TrueCourse said:
I could have simply responded with simple answers to the OPs questions, but I added the bit about real world situations we experience what we are never exposed to in training. Maybe it wasn't the time and place since the pit stop question is a minor point, but it did made me think of the reality of what we actually miss in training. For the record, I wasn't actually stating your CFI was deficient and it is fair to ask; did the CFI even think this question would ever come up or that he needed to mention the scenario? Don't know the actual answer to that and don't really care to go any further with this.
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Diversions are a required task on the ACS so what is it exactly that you think OP wasn't trained on that he should have been?
 
I did the opposite.

Filed IFR short of my final destination due to weather. 2 hours into the flight, my destination was still not great, but it looked like I could get closer, so I told the controller I wanted to amend my plan to an airport further. They asked why, so I told them. I later further amended because weather was getting better, but still not at my final. Again was asked. I finally amended once more because my destination was good enough. That last controller explained that they just have to ask and document a reason.

So, if you want to, just do it the way you’ve been doing and provide your reason. You probably make a tad more work for the controller. Or if weather is appropriate, just cancel IFR and go pee, then refile.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
I did the opposite.

Filed IFR short of my final destination due to weather. 2 hours into the flight, my destination was still not great, but it looked like I could get closer, so I told the controller I wanted to amend my plan to an airport further. They asked why, so I told them. I later further amended because weather was getting better, but still not at my final. Again was asked. I finally amended once more because my destination was good enough. That last controller explained that they just have to ask and document a reason.

So, if you want to, just do it the way you’ve been doing and provide your reason. You probably make a tad more work for the controller. Or if weather is appropriate, just cancel IFR and go pee, then refile.
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You beat me to it. I always file short and then just fly longer with an amendment if necessary. My bladder never makes it two hours though, so I almost always keep my flight plan.
 
No drinking for an hour before flight until 1 hour left in flight. Has worked for 20+ years with the exception of 2 flights. One was a mercy flight, and I have no idea when she last drank anything, but we had to stop less than an hour into the flight. Another was when I had coffee at a PoA breakfast. The pee pouches wouldn't have helped on that one.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
I did the opposite.

Filed IFR short of my final destination due to weather. 2 hours into the flight, my destination was still not great, but it looked like I could get closer, so I told the controller I wanted to amend my plan to an airport further. They asked why, so I told them. I later further amended because weather was getting better, but still not at my final. Again was asked. I finally amended once more because my destination was good enough. That last controller explained that they just have to ask and document a reason.

So, if you want to, just do it the way you’ve been doing and provide your reason. You probably make a tad more work for the controller. Or if weather is appropriate, just cancel IFR and go pee, then refile.
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"I could give you 7500 reasons, but the one I'm giving is, 'because the passenger wants to.'"
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
I did the opposite.

Filed IFR short of my final destination due to weather. 2 hours into the flight, my destination was still not great, but it looked like I could get closer, so I told the controller I wanted to amend my plan to an airport further. They asked why, so I told them. I later further amended because weather was getting better, but still not at my final. Again was asked. I finally amended once more because my destination was good enough. That last controller explained that they just have to ask and document a reason.

So, if you want to, just do it the way you’ve been doing and provide your reason. You probably make a tad more work for the controller. Or if weather is appropriate, just cancel IFR and go pee, then refile.
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We cancelled when we were in sight.
 
EdFred said:
No drinking for an hour before flight until 1 hour left in flight. Has worked for 20+ years with the exception of 2 flights. One was a mercy flight, and I have no idea when she last drank anything, but we had to stop less than an hour into the flight. Another was when I had coffee at a PoA breakfast. The pee pouches wouldn't have helped on that one.
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I certainly ate very little and drank very little. But I HAD to have a slug of coffee!
 
Mtns2Skies said:
I call it "tactical dehydration". Works great on commercial flights too.
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My wife did that on our first long trip together. No tea in the am, drank nothing at the stop, very little with lunch/dinner, and again no tea the next am when we flew home the next day at 7000-9000. She felt like crap for a couple days and this prompted lots of concern over flight enjoyment.

Now the deal is, she drinks, and I stop upon command! And we carry O2 in a tank should that have been part of it.
 
4RNB said:
My wife did that on our first long trip together. No tea in the am, drank nothing at the stop, very little with lunch/dinner, and again no tea the next am when we flew home the next day at 7000-9000. She felt like crap for a couple days and this prompted lots of concern over flight enjoyment.

Now the deal is, she drinks, and I stop upon command! And we carry O2 in a tank should that have been part of it.
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Caffeine laden diuretic withdrawal!!
I think we found the issue.

:)
 
Don't forget the greater incidence of kidney and bladder stones from tactical dehydration. Been there done that. I wouldn't suggest it except to your worst enemies.
 
Mikey52 said:
Don't forget the greater incidence of kidney and bladder stones from tactical dehydration. Been there done that. I wouldn't suggest it except to your worst enemies.
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It's not like it's a 24 hour flight. 4 hour flight is only 4 hours without drinking. I go longer without liquids than that sleeping at night.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
I call it "tactical dehydration". Works great on commercial flights too.
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I had to do that for years flying for work. Ended really quickly when I had a lav and another pilot. I felt it was bad enough for me that I never did it in my personal flying.
 
If I see a nice airport en-route that I want to land at, I would divert, up to you what you’d like to do, you’re PIC. You don’t need to give a reason, keep it short and to the point.
 
dmspilot said:
Diversions are a required task on the ACS so what is it exactly that you think OP wasn't trained on that he should have been?
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My take on the OP was not so much of him not understanding, or being taught, about diverting in general (for weather or minimum fuel, etc.) as much as using a divert for the simple reason of taking a leak or stretching the legs. So, filing optimistic, but stopping short as an SOP. Now, if in fact the OP didn’t understand or wasn’t taught about diversions as a necessary option when it should be done, than yes, the instructor failed.
 
Totally normal. Very common reasons to divert include passenger comfort or cheaper fuel. Or bloody great t-storm over the field which happened last week.
 
I diverted twice on an IFR plan once. It was looking like that my destination was covered up with thunderstorms so I headed to a convenient (for me) alternate. As I approached the alternate, the weather shifted off my destination and I diverted again back to the original destination. Both times the ATC inquired why, but were happy with the explanation.

I've learned to say "we need a bathroom break" rather than "my wife needs to go" to avoid being struck by loose objects in the cockpit.
 
Lately ATC seem to have started asking "are you qualified and equipped" again sometimes on pop-ups, but seem to have stopped asking for the reason for a diversion. YMMV.
 
ATC: What is the reason for the divert.??

Pilot: Because the boss wants to...
 
Steamflyer said:
Totally normal. Very common reasons to divert include passenger comfort or cheaper fuel. Or bloody great t-storm over the field which happened last week.
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I always have "passenger comfort" on hand, although I wonder if ATC has the persons on board figure from my flight plan so they know I really mean my own comfort. Yesterday, we were dodging storms for a few hours and my wife wanted to stop for supper about 45 minutes short of our filed destination. When the airport she wanted to go to for supper finally cleared of its own thunderstorm, I told ATC I requested a change of destination, they took care of the request, and then they asked why. I just said we wanted to stop for supper. Nobody gave me a phone number to call so it must have been okay.
 
Whatever you do, just don't say "All your airplanes are belong to us"!

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I would say just from the limited information, if most (all) of the mentioned flights end in a diversion that suggests poor flight planning for whatever reason. Occasional diverts no problem, but this is not normal. On comments of dehydrating to make longer flights… Bad things happen when you dehydrate yourself. Your mental acuity can decline, fatigue can set in, you increase your risk of blood clots in your legs and lungs, and can increase your risk of stroke and heart attack through increased blood viscosity, and just feel bad. I fly a buttload of long missions, and I drink and eat normally, and carry these when necessary.

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I heard that since 911 they have to ask why you are diverting to make sure you're not a terrorist. This is kinda like a pawn shop asking you "did you steal this?" before buying your item. Or, like my basic med doctor asking me if I've had a heart attack....
 
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