Does an annual confirm the compliance with all ADs? Can compliance be assumed?

[timwinters]

In my best Eva Gabor voice...

"Well, dammit Oliver!"

 

[Henning]

While it is not legally required, good IA's compile an AD list at each annual, confirm compliance for each one. New ones and those requiring recurring compliance will be dealt with, and then the list is appended the list to the aircraft's maintenance records. That makes it a lot easier to confirm compliance with all applicable AD's next year. In any event, how can an IA performing an annual inspection confirm compliance with all applicable AD's without compiling an AD list?

And you're still not showing me anything in the AD which says it only applies to engines with Continental cylinders.

Actually, a good owner compiles an AD list and makes sure they are all up to date.

 

[jbarrass]

ADLOG is a wonderful tool to keep track of these things.

 

[German guy]

I love happy endings.....

In my best Eva Gabor voice...

"Well, dammit Oliver!"

This is so exciting. I can't wait to pick er up!

The idea is to do a quick stop in St. Augustine in order to visit the flight school, at which we got our PPLs an to then fly to New Orleans from there. From New Orleans, we will fly direct Michigan.

 

[Tom-D]

IIRC Superior was first in the Aftermarket introducing this very cylinder set for the O-200/O-300 in I think 1994. Before that there were only 'factory cylinders'.

OBTW, the reason Superior got into the 0-300 cylinder game was because the factory was not manufacturing the 50 CI cylinders of the 0-300/0-200/GO-300. prior to 1990's there were no new cylinders.

 

[Tom-D]

Great news - the Cessna Center compared the dates in the logbook with the AD.
It turned out, other than initially stated, that the cylinders which were repaired, had been removed before the AD was issued. After the release of the AD, two other cylinder were removed, both were however replaced with new parts.

This means, according to the Cessna Center and also by my understanding, that the plane is in full compliance with the AD!

We are already looking forward to picking her up.

Thank you very much again for all your repsonses and the very interesting discussion. I certainly learned a lot from it.

I love it,,the game isn't over until all the cards are on the table.

Glad it turned your way, have fun with it.

AND remember who is the go to 0-300 guy?

 

[Tom-D]

ADLOG is a wonderful tool to keep track of these things.

This is a very good program, get it, use it.

 

[German guy]

[...] AND remember who is the go to 0-300 guy?

Thank you very much again to you, Ron, Henning and everybody else who contributed to the discussion.

 

[Tom-D]

Thank you very much again to you, Ron, Henning and everybody else who contributed to the discussion.

Now do we get pictures?

 

[German guy]

Now do we get pictures?

Certainly, see below. I stole them from the broker's website, to which I provided a link above. The broker also put a video on Youtube, which I believe gives a better impression of the aircraft's condition: https://youtu.be/nKBTpzJwdac

 

[Tom-D]

Nice.... That is an 0-300-D, it has a friction clutch starter adaptor.

Study up on them. they are expensive to replace/rebuild.

run good ol phillips 20W50 or W80/W100 no fancy multi weight with a bunch of additives. No MMO. and a 3-to-2 fuel mix. Never have the carb overhauled, just fix it.

 

[German guy]

[...] No MMO. and a 3-to-2 fuel mix. [...]

What is MMO and what do you mean with the fuel mix? AVGAS / Mogas? I was actually already planning to do this.

 

[Tom-D]

What is MMO and what do you mean with the fuel mix? AVGAS / Mogas? I was actually already planning to do this.

Marvel Mystery Oil

3 parts auto UL. 2 parts 100LL. late this fall prior to the freeze up dose it with 1 12oz can of dry gas each tank. then all winter use a pure natural chamois in a funnel to fuel.

 

[German guy]

Marvel Mystery Oil

3 parts auto UL. 2 parts 100LL. late this fall prior to the freeze up dose it with 1 12oz can of dry gas each tank. then all winter use a pure natural chamois in a funnel to fuel.

Thank you. Just looked up the advice with the natural chamois. Interesting.

 

[Tom-D]

Thank you. Just looked up the advice with the natural chamois. Interesting.

Once you are certain the water is out, keep it out, is the whole theory. a fake one won't do it.

 

[timwinters]

Marvel Mystery Oil

3 parts auto UL. 2 parts 100LL. late this fall prior to the freeze up dose it with 1 12oz can of dry gas each tank. then all winter use a pure natural chamois in a funnel to fuel.

Tom...you go along hitting all cylinders for a while and then...BAM...you throw a rod right through the side of the case.

Alcohol of any kind is prohibited in our fuel tanks and that's what dry gas is. And all it does is suspend the moisture, just like ethanol does, and then you run it through the engine. You're better just to sump IMO. Besides, I don't think MoGas is any more likely to contain water than 100 LL is.

Oliver,

I agree with Tom's recommendation to get an auto gas STC and run 66 to 75% mogas in your tanks. Your engine will love you for it and you have 0E available about 15 miles down the road from you.

 

[German guy]

[...] I agree with Tom's recommendation to get an auto gas STC and run 66 to 75% mogas in your tanks. Your engine will love you for it and you have 0E available about 15 miles down the road from you.

Yep, this is the plan.
I just need to decide which kind of gas can to get. Currently, we have two of these CARB compliant 5 gal. cans at home, which are a pain to use. I am aware that there are ways to modify them, since we will need new cans anyway, I however want to buy something better right away.

Currently, I am strongly leaning towards the VP Racing 5 gal. jugs:

They seem to be the option with the fastest flow, the design also looks quite straight forward. However, they don't have a flame arrestor.


The other design which has good reviews are the no-spill cans:

Still very fast and for my wife probably easier to handle, as she could lay the can can on the wing and would only have to keep the button pressed.

Of course, a few of each would also be an option.

 

[James331]

Yep, this is the plan.
I just need to decide which kind of gas can to get. Currently, we have two of these CARB compliant 5 gal. cans at home, which are a pain to use. I am aware that there are ways to modify them, since we will need new cans anyway, I however want to buy something better right away.

Currently, I am strongly leaning towards the VP Racing 5 gal. jugs:

They seem to be the option with the fastest flow, the design also looks quite straight forward. However, they don't have a flame arrestor.


The other design which has good reviews are the no-spill cans:

Still very fast and for my wife probably easier to handle, as she could lay the can can on the wing and would only have to keep the button pressed.

Of course, a few of each would also be an option.

Congrats on the plane!

I wouldn't bother with a small army of 5gal jugs,

When I ran autofuel in my old plane I had three 15.5gal (full stainless) steel beer kegs, cleaned them out, got a hand pump off Craig's list and a rubber bumper for between the pump and the keg from lowes, worked GREAT!

...and it was actually cheaper and easier compared to buying the little 5 gal racing jugs, and holding them at 30lbs each over my wing to fuel, rinse and repeat till full.

As for oil, not sure about the 300, but on my Continental IO-520 I run 20W50 with camguard added, it is a good year round oil, and the camguard is great if your plane has quiet months, good stuff.

 

[Tom-D]

Tom...you go along hitting all cylinders for a while and then...BAM...you throw a rod right through the side of the case.

Oh Bull scat. If that happens it will not because of alcohol. Alcohol does not have the BTUs per pound to do that. dosing with dry gas is a common practice in Ak. prior to winter each year.

Alcohol of any kind is prohibited in our fuel tanks and that's what dry gas is. And all it does is suspend the moisture, just like ethanol does, and then you run it through the engine. You're better just to sump IMO. Besides, I don't think MoGas is any more likely to contain water than 100 LL is.

Yes it will mix the water if there is any, into the fuel and burn it leaving the tank clean.

 

[German guy]

Congrats on the plane!

I wouldn't bother with a small army of 5gal jugs, [...]

Thank you.

The problem is (at least here in Michigan) that the max. allowed size of a container in which gas may be transported is 8 gal.. Anything larger than that requires all kinds of documentation, marking and training of the driver.

Otherwise, I would have pursued my initial idea, to install 2x 50 gal. boat tanks on a small trailer, get an electric transfer pump and to use that as a mobile filling station.

The other thing is, that I don't want to get into trouble with the airport and assume that their will be some clause in the rental contract which prohibits the storage of fuel in the hangars. I would think that nobody cares about a few gas cans, a larger tank will however quite likely be a different story - especially if there is a fire and / or if something goes wrong with my brilliant setup...

 

[James331]

Thank you.

The problem is (at least here in Michigan) that the max. allowed size of a container in which gas may be transported is 8 gal.. Anything larger than that requires all kinds of documentation, marking and training of the driver.

Otherwise, I would have pursued my initial idea, to install 2x 50 gal. boat tanks on a small trailer, get an electric transfer pump and to use that as a mobile filling station.

The other thing is, that I don't want to get into trouble with the airport and assume that their will be some clause in the rental contract which prohibits the storage of fuel in the hangars. I would think that nobody cares about a few gas cans, a larger tank will however quite likely be a different story - especially if there is a fire and / or if something goes wrong with my brilliant setup...

No one on their right mind would ever think there was fuel in a beer keg, just sayin'

 

[flyingron]

Now to really blow your top, I've seen a letter from an ACO saying that even brand new airplanes need to comply and document compliance with AD 70-22-04.

"Applies to all aircraft incorporating Wood electric Corp ... circuit breakers..." "...to detect jammed circuit breakers on all Wood electric models 105, 106, 107, 108..."

I'm not sure I've ever seen one in an airplane before

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...E0EB694F30CB003A86256E01005ACB4E?OpenDocument

Eh? If your plane doesn't have a Wood Electric breaker in it, the AD doesn't apply and you don't have to comply. It's no different than if the AD said it applied to Cessnas and you were flying a Piper.

You can make a notation that you don't have any of those breakers in your plane if you like, but it's not required. Now if the AD said it applied to "All Aircraft" and it said to verify that you don't have any Wood breakers, that would be a different story.

 

[timwinters]

Oliver,

5 gallons jugs are a good option. The racing jugs are probably your best bet these days.

 

[German guy]

Things continue to get better.
I just learned that she also passed the IFR check, which I believe includes a test of the pitot / static systems and the transponder. This means, that my wife can exercise her newly earned IFR privileges right away.

The GPS is an older King model, which is however IFR capable, properly installed and updates also seem to be still available. We will use this setup for the summer, gain some experience with the plane and develop a better understanding of which upgrades we actually want. A Garmin 650, ADS-B in / out and an engine monitor are currently on top of the wish list…

 

[Stewartb]

Tom...you go along hitting all cylinders for a while and then...BAM...you throw a rod right through the side of the case.

Alcohol of any kind is prohibited in our fuel tanks and that's what dry gas is. And all it does is suspend the moisture, just like ethanol does, and then you run it through the engine. You're better just to sump IMO. Besides, I don't think MoGas is any more likely to contain water than 100 LL is.

Oliver,

I agree with Tom's recommendation to get an auto gas STC and run 66 to 75% mogas in your tanks. Your engine will love you for it and you have 0E available about 15 miles down the road from you.

Every airplane I've owned has allowed isopropyl alcohol to treat water in fuel. I use it occasionally and always have, even with nitrile fuel bladders. Not a problem. I have a chamois funnel but rarely use it. Mr Funnel is a more practical alternative. But usually I dispense fuel from my pickup's bulk tank to my plane and my pump has a particle and water stop filter in line. That's the best solution. DOT regs don't apply unless you exceed 119 gallons so my 100 gallon tank has never caused me any grief. I've had it or it's predecessor in every truck I've owned in the past 20+ years. I've filled it twice in the past 5 days. $4.11 per gallon.

 

[Henning]

Oh Bull scat. If that happens it will not because of alcohol. Alcohol does not have the BTUs per pound to do that. dosing with dry gas is a common practice in Ak. prior to winter each year.



Yes it will mix the water if there is any, into the fuel and burn it leaving the tank clean.

As long as you don't have any reactive rubber hoses or seals in the fuel system, that's fine. Otherwise you run into the same issues which prohibit alcohol containing MoGas.

 

[N801BH]

Things continue to get better.
I just learned that she also passed the IFR check, which I believe includes a test of the pitot / static systems and the transponder. This means, that my wife can exercise her newly earned IFR privileges right away.

The GPS is an older King model, which is however IFR capable, properly installed and updates also seem to be still available. We will use this setup for the summer, gain some experience with the plane and develop a better understanding of which upgrades we actually want. A Garmin 650, ADS-B in / out and an engine monitor are currently on top of the wish list…

Lucky you.... I seem to not be able to get King to support my KMD 150 MFD any more....

 

[German guy]

[...] DOT regs don't apply unless you exceed 119 gallons so my 100 gallon tank has never caused me any grief. [...]

Well, I guess that Michigan has its own ruling:

In any container exceeding 8-gallons capacity, gasoline must be transported in compliance with the regulations. Any container of gasoline over 8-gallon capacity must be a USDOT specification package. The use of dispensing tanks, while commonly seen in construction and agricultural use are prohibited for gasoline. In addition, for containers over the 8-gallon limit, shipping papers, package markings and package labels are required (Sections 172.200, 172.300, and 172.400, respectively). The training requirements must also be complied with (Section 172.700). If the capacity of package exceeds 119 gallons, or the total gross weight of all the gasoline packages exceed 1000 lbs., placards are required (Section 172.500).
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/V02N01_97421_7.pdf

As long as nothing happens, it is indeed unlikely that anybody cares. Things will however rapidly go sideways if the news-chopper is circling over the Subaru Forester, with the attached trailer, which caused a blazing inferno on I-96 and which lit up five other cars. Now, how could that have happened, just because he was rear ended by some kid who paid more attention to texting than to driving?

 

[Henning]

Well, I guess that Michigan has its own ruling:

In any container exceeding 8-gallons capacity, gasoline must be transported in compliance with the regulations. Any container of gasoline over 8-gallon capacity must be a USDOT specification package. The use of dispensing tanks, while commonly seen in construction and agricultural use are prohibited for gasoline. In addition, for containers over the 8-gallon limit, shipping papers, package markings and package labels are required (Sections 172.200, 172.300, and 172.400, respectively). The training requirements must also be complied with (Section 172.700). If the capacity of package exceeds 119 gallons, or the total gross weight of all the gasoline packages exceed 1000 lbs., placards are required (Section 172.500).
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/V02N01_97421_7.pdf

As long as nothing happens, it is indeed unlikely that anybody cares. Things will however rapidly go sideways if the news-chopper is circling over the Subaru Forester, with the attached trailer, which caused a blazing inferno on I-96 and which lit up five other cars. Now, how could that have happened, just because he was rear ended by some kid who paid more attention to texting than to driving?

Those are Motor Carrier rules, they do not apply to private cartage.

If you are going to haul MoGas to a Cessna, you will end up with a tank and pump, I promise, may as well start there before you get hurt.

 

[weirdjim]

Nice.... That is an 0-300-D, it has a friction clutch starter adaptor.

Study up on them. they are expensive to replace/rebuild.

You got that right. Nearly as cost effective to go with a Skytec starter replacement.

Jim

 

[weirdjim]

Still very fast and for my wife probably easier to handle, as she could lay the can can on the wing and would only have to keep the button pressed.

Of course, a few of each would also be an option.

You have no idea how much fun it is to lift 30# of fuel up onto the wing seven or eight times for a fillup. More better you go to somebody like Tractor Supply or Great Plains for a large mobile tank and Harbor Freight for one of their little trailers. Hand pump or electric off the trailer connector, your choice.

I believe federal law limits even private carriers to 55 gallons, so keep it below that level.

Jim

 

[Henning]

You have no idea how much fun it is to lift 30# of fuel up onto the wing seven or eight times for a fillup. More better you go to somebody like Tractor Supply or Great Plains for a large mobile tank and Harbor Freight for one of their little trailers. Hand pump or electric off the trailer connector, your choice.

I believe federal law limits even private carriers to 55 gallons, so keep it below that level.

Jim

One thing to watch at Tractor Supply and such, much of the gear is NOT rated for gasoline, Diesel only. You have to read the labels. Hand diaphragm pumps are a lot cheaper than gasoline rated electric ones, and are just a bit of easy exercise. The only difference on the tank is the venting, and that can be covered with a cap, or a carbon trap vent neck depending where you live.

 

[German guy]

Those are Motor Carrier rules, they do not apply to private cartage..

Hmmm... It seems as whether you are right. The document is listed under the section 'Commercial vehicle enforcement', in the text they also only talk about 'Material Of Trade', which indeed does not seem to apply to the transport of fuel for personal use. Beside of this, they refer to the 'Federal Hazardous Materials Regulations', where I only found regulations which are applicable for the ' transportation of hazardous materials in commerce'.

Now, the question is which, if any, regulations apply to the personal transport of gasoline? Everything I found, seems to refer to the transport of hazardous material in combination with some form of business. What about the container, I put the fuel in?

If you are going to haul MoGas to a Cessna, you will end up with a tank and pump, I promise, may as well start there before you get hurt.

A tank with a pump, permanently installed on a trailer, would actually be my preferred solution. Boat tanks might be an option or 2x 55 Gal. drums. When I searched around, I found a few discussions in other forums, in which the 119 gal. Stewartb mentioned, were discussed, however with no links to the actual regulation. I also specifically searched for regulations, which include this volume, but only came up with documents, which again only seem to apply to the business related transport of fuel.

 

[Tom-D]

You got that right. Nearly as cost effective to go with a Skytec starter replacement.

Jim

They do not replace the adaptor. that is where the clutch is. Starter adaptor, starter motor, not the same unit.

 

[Stewartb]

Hmmm... It seems as whether you are right. The document is listed under the section 'Commercial vehicle enforcement', in the text they also only talk about 'Material Of Trade', which indeed does not seem to apply to the transport of fuel for personal use. Beside of this, they refer to the 'Federal Hazardous Materials Regulations', where I only found regulations which are applicable for the ' transportation of hazardous materials in commerce'.

Now, the question is which, if any, regulations apply to the personal transport of gasoline? Everything I found, seems to refer to the transport of hazardous material in combination with some form of business. What about the container, I put the fuel in?
A tank with a pump, permanently installed on a trailer, would actually be my preferred solution. Boat tanks might be an option or 2x 55 Gal. drums. When I searched around, a found a few discussions in other forums, in which the 119 gal. Stewartb mentioned, were discussed, however with no links to the actual regulation. I also specifically searched for regulations, which include this volume, but only came up with documents, which again only seem to apply to the business related transport of fuel.

My experience- I started with a 135 gallon tank from a highway truck.One day the local bulk plant refeused to fill it because I didn't have proper placards and couldn't produce a CDL with a Hazmat endorsement. They told me they have no interest in tanks up to 119 gallons but at 120 gal the USDOT regs kick in. I got rid of that tank and went to a 100 gallon diesel tank from the local hardware store. It's never turned a head. These tanks are very common in Alaska. Some guys I know don't believe the DOT regs are enforceable on a private vehicle and they use bigger tanks. 100 gal is enough for me. As for my tank? It is not vented and the first time I filled it the internal pressure bulged the tank. I drilled a relief hole in the rim of the filler cap and I've never had a problem since.

 

[poadeleted20]

Great news - the Cessna Center compared the dates in the logbook with the AD.
It turned out, other than initially stated, that the cylinders which were repaired, had been removed before the AD was issued. After the release of the AD, two other cylinder were removed, both were however replaced with new parts.

This means, according to the Cessna Center and also by my understanding, that the plane is in full compliance with the AD!

I'll buy that. Just remember that if any of the cylinders have to be removed in the future, the AD-mandated inspection will have to be done and documented before they can be reinstalled.

We are already looking forward to picking her up.

Gute flieg'!

 

[poadeleted20]

If you're going to do your IR training, make sure you do it in this plane -- otherwise, your scan will be brutalized in the transition from a "standard-T" configuration to this "shotgun" configuration.

 

[poadeleted20]

Things continue to get better.
I just learned that she also passed the IFR check, which I believe includes a test of the pitot / static systems and the transponder. This means, that my wife can exercise her newly earned IFR privileges right away.

Unless she trained in an identical non-standard panel layout, she might want to get some practice under the hood in clear air with someone in the right seat before she launches into the goo. It takes a while to reorganize your scan from standard to non-standard.

 

[Henning]

Hmmm... It seems as whether you are right. The document is listed under the section 'Commercial vehicle enforcement', in the text they also only talk about 'Material Of Trade', which indeed does not seem to apply to the transport of fuel for personal use. Beside of this, they refer to the 'Federal Hazardous Materials Regulations', where I only found regulations which are applicable for the ' transportation of hazardous materials in commerce'.

Now, the question is which, if any, regulations apply to the personal transport of gasoline? Everything I found, seems to refer to the transport of hazardous material in combination with some form of business. What about the container, I put the fuel in?





A tank with a pump, permanently installed on a trailer, would actually be my preferred solution. Boat tanks might be an option or 2x 55 Gal. drums. When I searched around, I found a few discussions in other forums, in which the 119 gal. Stewartb mentioned, were discussed, however with no links to the actual regulation. I also specifically searched for regulations, which include this volume, but only came up with documents, which again only seem to apply to the business related transport of fuel.

Just buy a commercially built trailer tank with a diaphragm pump from your local trailer shop. Yes, it will cost a couple of thousand, but you will have a safe and legal rig that will prevent your up coming ruptured disk or broken hip. They will also know exactly how much fuel you can tanker in your area and what venting system is required.

Seriously, do not use gas cans on a high wing except under duress, they are not a feasible long term solution, just eliminate the risk at the beginning. It will take a bit longer to pay off the MoGas STC, but the more you fly, the faster it pays off.

 

[Henning]

Unless she trained in an identical non-standard panel layout, she might want to get some practice under the hood in clear air with someone in the right seat before she launches into the goo. It takes a while to reorganize your scan from standard to non-standard.

Yeah, spend a few hundred bucks and have the instruments relocated for a standard T scan, totally simple, I don't understand why it is configured that way. Every other one I've ever seen with that panel vintage is a standard T.

Don't do your IR training with that panel, you will regret it.