Does an annual confirm the compliance with all ADs? Can compliance be assumed?

Ron Levy said:
Unless she trained in an identical non-standard panel layout, she might want to get some practice under the hood in clear air with someone in the right seat before she launches into the goo. [...]
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Of course. She would do this even if it had a standard 6-pack. Since she had her checkride on January 1st, she only did 3 or 4 approaches under the hood. The idea is to file IFR whenever possible, to get more familiar with the system, and to very carefully take the first steps into IMC.

Henning said:
Just buy a commercially built trailer tank with a diaphragm pump from your local trailer shop. [...]
Click to expand...

This indeed sounds like the cleanest solutions. I'll yet have to look into that. Before we make a decision or spend money, I want to review the airport regulations.


Henning said:
Yeah, spend a few hundred bucks and have the instruments relocated for a standard T scan, totally simple, I don't understand why it is configured that way.:dunno: Every other one I've ever seen with that panel vintage is a standard T.

Don't do your IR training with that panel, you will regret it.
Click to expand...

Hmmm... I was actually hoping to do my IR in it later this year, just as it is, and to have the panel upgraded afterwards. Depending on what is going on with the engine and what we decide to do with it (a 180 hp upgrade sounds very tempting), the panel upgrade might possibly have to wait even longer.
I don't know how much sense it makes to have the left panel straightened out, only to rip it a few month later out again. :dunno:
 
German guy said:
Of course. She would do this even if it had a standard 6-pack. Since she had her checkride on January 1st, she only did 3 or 4 approaches under the hood. The idea is to file IFR whenever possible, to get more familiar with the system, and to very carefully take the first steps into IMC.



This indeed sounds like the cleanest solutions. I'll yet have to look into that. Before we make a decision or spend money, I want to review the airport regulations.




Hmmm... I was actually hoping to do my IR in it later this year, just as it is, and to have the panel upgraded afterwards. Depending on what is going on with the engine and what we decide to do with it (a 180 hp upgrade sounds very tempting), the panel upgrade might possibly have to wait even longer.
I don't know how much sense it makes to have the left panel straightened out, only to rip it a few month later out again. :dunno:
Click to expand...


Dude, train on the panel you are going to use going forward, to do otherwise is counterproductive to getting you to maximimum proficiency and capability as soon as possible. Train like you fly. Minimally though straighten out the six pack.
 
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weirdjim said:
You have no idea how much fun it is to lift 30# of fuel up onto the wing seven or eight times for a fillup.
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You're showing your age Jim. I've used 5 gallon cans forever and not found it to be cumbersome at all. Just yesterday I put 50 gallons total in Ms. DueBeUs; 30 of auto gas, 20 of 100 LL.

The cans are so convenient that I fill them up at the 100LL self serv pump and bring the fuel to the plane rather than take the plane to the pump or even bother with stoping by while taxiing in.

And remember that Oliver's tanks aren't 60...70 gallons. Buying fuel 100 gallons at a time might be risking it going bad before it's used. And more importantly you don't want to run MoGas formulated for summer ops in the winter. Vice versa isn't so bad IIRC but is still an indicator or old gas. Or do I have that backwards?
 
5 gallon cans work fine for refueling as long as you learn how to manage the static electricity risk. I know, most guys will poo-poo the issue, but I have a couple of friends who've had fires from using gas jugs. Here's an old video, and I mean old, that demonstrates static pretty well. It's worth a watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sSqzLPMb4s
 
Stewartb said:
5 gallon cans work fine for refueling as long as you learn how to manage the static electricity risk. I know, most guys will poo-poo the issue, but I have a couple of friends who've had fires from using gas jugs. Here's an old video, and I mean old, that demonstrates static pretty well. It's worth a watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sSqzLPMb4s
Click to expand...

You will not hear me poo poo the static issue, it is very real, and another advantage of a tank trailer where you have a grounding cable reel mounted to take care of it. Out in the boonies, gas cans may be the only/best option, based in town it is a false value lost at the first injury.
 
Stewartb said:
Every airplane I've owned has allowed isopropyl alcohol to treat water in fuel. I use it occasionally and always have, even with nitrile fuel bladders. Not a problem. I have a chamois funnel but rarely use it. Mr Funnel is a more practical alternative. But usually I dispense fuel from my pickup's bulk tank to my plane and my pump has a particle and water stop filter in line. That's the best solution. DOT regs don't apply unless you exceed 119 gallons so my 100 gallon tank has never caused me any grief. I've had it or it's predecessor in every truck I've owned in the past 20+ years. I've filled it twice in the past 5 days. $4.11 per gallon.
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From Lycoming (yes, I know, Oliver's engine isn't, just the only thing I could find)

Isopropyl alcohol in amounts not to exceed 1% by volume can be added only to aviation fuel (not automotive fuel) to prevent ice formation in fuel lines and tanks. Although approved for use in Lycoming engines, do not use isopropyl alcohol in the aircraft fuel systems unless approved by the aircraft manufacturer.
Click to expand...
 
timwinters said:
From Lycoming (yes, I know, Oliver's engine isn't, just the only thing I could find)
Click to expand...

Notice Lycoming is only commenting on engine/combustion qualities, and state the any othe airframe limitations over ride if applicable. It's only a problem I have ever seen in 50s and prior airframes with old material type hoses that swell up in the presence of alcohol. I think everything since the 60s used hoses of a compatible petrochemical, rather than natural rubber, material.
 
timwinters said:
Yes, but again for

I guess I just don't understand the reason for it especially since Oliver's 172 doesn't have bladders. Sumping should be adequate.

I've never found water while sumping my 182. Not in 11 years.
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There are two issues with alcohol, first there is the affect it has on the fuel burn qualities to keep them within the proper performance specifications. Then there is the materials compatibility issue with the early, incompatible, rubber materials that swell and restrict fuel flow enough to restrict the power available. This effect is well documented.
 
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Because guys like me who park outdoors in sub-freezing temperatures get a little moisture in the tanks from condensation. And that condensation can't be sumped when it's in the form of ice. Isopropyl is the best solution. You won't find an aircraft engine manufacturer address fuel issues in any way except as avgas since they don't support the use of mogas, but as long as the mogas is free of ethanol using isopropyl is still the right thing to do.
 
timwinters said:
I guess I just don't understand the reason for it especially since Oliver's 172 doesn't have bladders. Sumping should be adequate.
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Bladders have nothing to do with the problem of leaky fuel caps.
Getting the tanks free of water prior to the winter freeze up, will save your life, a frozen water bubble in a fuel line is like having a cork in it.

but frozen precip will not leak into the tank, or be transferred thru the fuel screens into your tanks.

Get it out keep it out. or die.
 
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Henning said:
Just buy a commercially built trailer tank with a diaphragm pump from your local trailer shop. [...]
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I spend some time yesterday evening, searching for tank trailers. The cheapest I could find was still $2,999 + transport + tax. Yikes. :hairraise:

I guess I'll first give the racing jugs a shot... :rolleyes:

Usable fuel of our 172 is just 39 gal., under normal conditions I would expect to not have to refuel more than 25 gal. Most oft the time it will be significantly less. Patternwork, local sightseeing or our typical burger run should consume around 10, max. 15 gal or 2 - 3 jugs.

The racing jugs will dump all fuel in less than a minute, from what I read. I think I'll be able to hold it that long, in particular, if I attach a longer hose, so that I can stand in an upright position.
With a few precautions, I should be able to avoid blowing myself up: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/98-111/ ;)

I also read somewhere that it might be a good idea to run a wire from the handle of the gas can to a piece of bare metal on the plane and from there to the ground. I thought this sounds like a pretty good idea!? Looking at pictures of Alaskan pilots, refueling from gas can, it however appears as whether such precautions are rather uncommon... ;)
 
flyingron said:
Eh? If your plane doesn't have a Wood Electric breaker in it, the AD doesn't apply and you don't have to comply. It's no different than if the AD said it applied to Cessnas and you were flying a Piper.

You can make a notation that you don't have any of those breakers in your plane if you like, but it's not required. Now if the AD said it applied to "All Aircraft" and it said to verify that you don't have any Wood breakers, that would be a different story.
Click to expand...

It says "Applies to Aircraft Incorporating Wood Electric Corp Model 105, 106, 107, 108, 147, 152, 254, 447, 448, or 2100 series circuit breakers" how do you know if you plane does or doesn't have them without inspection. :dunno:
 
German guy said:
I spend some time yesterday evening, searching for tank trailers. The cheapest I could find was still $2,999 + transport + tax. Yikes. :hairraise:

I guess I'll first give the racing jugs a shot... :rolleyes:

Usable fuel of our 172 is just 39 gal., under normal conditions I would expect to not have to refuel more than 25 gal. Most oft the time it will be significantly less. Patternwork, local sightseeing or our typical burger run should consume around 10, max. 15 gal or 2 - 3 jugs.

The racing jugs will dump all fuel in less than a minute, from what I read. I think I'll be able to hold it that long, in particular, if I attach a longer hose, so that I can stand in an upright position.
With a few precautions, I should be able to avoid blowing myself up: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/98-111/ ;)

I also read somewhere that it might be a good idea to run a wire from the handle of the gas can to a piece of bare metal on the plane and from there to the ground. I thought this sounds like a pretty good idea!? Looking at pictures of Alaskan pilots, refueling from gas can, it however appears as whether such precautions are rather uncommon... ;)
Click to expand...

I know a guy that has similar for <$500. (carrying diesel of course ;))

Search Ebay for "aluminum fuel tank". A 20ish gallon tank will fill the plane most of the time unless you really go somewhere. In that case make an extra trip or bring a jug.

You can find a nice electric pump kit with a hose and nozzle easy
http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/gpireg;-ez-8-fuel-pump-1-10-hp-3-4-in-inlet?cm_vc=-10005

Then mount both the tank and the pump to a pallet. Get the fittings needed to connect the tank to the pump from wicks or aircraft spruce. Then measure/eyeball the length of hose you want and call a hose shop like TS Flightlines and tell them you want a braided -10 (use your size needed) stainless Teflon hose XX long between the flares.

I cut a hole in the trunk to run the vent hose out the bottom with a bulkhead fitting and another Teflon hose I had laying around. (aircraft shops have old stuff like this laying around all the time).

Easy to remove the pallet when done with a quick disconnect power connector on the pump.
 
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German guy said:
I also read somewhere that it might be a good idea to run a wire from the handle of the gas can to a piece of bare metal on the plane and from there to the ground. I thought this sounds like a pretty good idea!? Looking at pictures of Alaskan pilots, refueling from gas can, it however appears as whether such precautions are rather uncommon... ;)
Click to expand...

Lots of guys get away with poor practices. For a while, anyway. Bonding the can to the airframe is a good idea but only works with metal cans. Bonding the funnel to the airframe is a good idea so most guys use metal tractor funnels or Mr Funnel filtered conductive funnels. I have both and prefer neither. When I have to use a can I use a plastic jug with no nozzle and pour into a Mr Funnel. I already know my fuel is clean and the Mr Funnel is much more practical than a tractor funnel with a chamois.

Note- a chamois will allow water to pass if the chamois is wet from water before the fueling starts. Nothing ****es off a bush pilot like having a rain shower pass over and get the chamois wet. That makes them bring the chamois inside to dry. Nothing ****es off a camp woman like a pilot bringing a gas rag inside to dry.
 
I'll send a stuffed animal to your hospital room. I bet $50 your co-pay is more than $3k.
 
German guy said:
I spend some time yesterday evening, searching for tank trailers. The cheapest I could find was still $2,999 + transport + tax. Yikes. :hairraise:

I guess I'll first give the racing jugs a shot... :rolleyes:

Usable fuel of our 172 is just 39 gal., under normal conditions I would expect to not have to refuel more than 25 gal. Most oft the time it will be significantly less. Patternwork, local sightseeing or our typical burger run should consume around 10, max. 15 gal or 2 - 3 jugs.

The racing jugs will dump all fuel in less than a minute, from what I read. I think I'll be able to hold it that long, in particular, if I attach a longer hose, so that I can stand in an upright position.
With a few precautions, I should be able to avoid blowing myself up: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/98-111/ ;)

I also read somewhere that it might be a good idea to run a wire from the handle of the gas can to a piece of bare metal on the plane and from there to the ground. I thought this sounds like a pretty good idea!? Looking at pictures of Alaskan pilots, refueling from gas can, it however appears as whether such precautions are rather uncommon... ;)
Click to expand...

If ya own a pick up truck.. Just do as I do....

Go to any oil distributor, or even an airport FBO that buys Prist in 55 gallon drums... They will give you a perfectly new and clean one for free... Northern has 12v gas pumps for around 199.00.. The filter is 20 bucks or so and the digital flow gauge is not needed if you don't care about the exact amount you put in your plane... I use it because I calibrate my JPI 450 about 4 times a year to make sure it is still perfect...

My total cost was 375.00 or so for the entire rig... I have run several thousand gallons through it and it works great... It ain't heavy so I pick it up and put it in the bed,,, fuel the plane and then remove it till the plane needs more fuel...:yes::):):):)
 

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If your airport lets you, you can also get a used 250gallon tank on a stand, and the fuel company will deliver you bulk rate fuel for free. Less than $1k and gravity feed.
 
Henning said:
If your airport lets you, you can also get a used 250gallon tank on a stand, and the fuel company will deliver you bulk rate fuel for free. Less than $1k and gravity feed.
Click to expand...

My dad did that then the airport got ****y. The flying club next door still has theirs.

Dad's beef started when the city started dinking with fuel pumps. I landed there one day and needed gas and someone had chopped the wires at the pumps, no NOTAMS out. Then it took them months to get that corrected. Then it took them another like three months to replace the pumps and install a CC machine. Dad was all about making gas available and got fed up. Believe it or not there is still an old tank laying on the airport. City is never in a hurry to do anything...

He still has the tank setup but the city still pizzed. The next step is a pickup tank then a hangar and strip on the farm.
 
N801BH said:
[...] My total cost was 375.00 or so for the entire rig... I have run several thousand gallons through it and it works great... It ain't heavy so I pick it up and put it in the bed,,, fuel the plane and then remove it till the plane needs more fuel...:yes::):):):)
Click to expand...

Nice setup. Is the t-connection for refueling?
I don't have a truck but a trailer hitch. I could put the drum on a small trailer and leave it permanently on it.
 
Henning said:
I'll send a stuffed animal to your hospital room. I bet $50 your co-pay is more than $3k.
Click to expand...

Oh, jeezus, that's a tad bit melodramatic, wouldn't you say?

I use a damp towel. It's spread on the wing and remains in contact with the filler neck, funnel and 5 gallon can. I also make sure the three are physically touching and never pick the 5 gallon can up high to drain the last bit.

There's also a huge difference between the risk involved in the humid Midwest and arid southwest. But even here, I'm far more cautious in the winter than I am in the summer.

I've probably toted over 7,000 gallons of gas to the airport this way.

Henning said:
If your airport lets you, you can also get a used 250gallon tank on a stand, and the fuel company will deliver you bulk rate fuel for free. Less than $1k and gravity feed.
Click to expand...

You can't gravity feed a high wing aircraft from one of these. They don't sit high enough. that is unless you jerry rig it to make it sit higher yet.

Also, I seriously doubt Oliver will burn enough fuel to use 250 gallons before it ages to the point that it's not to be trusted. I won't put MoGas in my plane that's older than 30...45 days. I put it in my farm truck.

Besides, I don't know of any public airport in our area that would allow one of these on their grounds.
 
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How much will we spend trying to save a buck...?

speciality when a 5 gallon can, a pad, and a "Eazy Syphon" works as well as anything.
 
Stewartb said:
[...] Bonding the can to the airframe is a good idea but only works with metal cans. Bonding the funnel to the airframe is a good idea so most guys use metal tractor funnels or Mr Funnel filtered conductive funnels. [...]
Click to expand...

Due to the high voltage of a static load, the relatively low energy it contains and the large contact surface, it dissipates even through high resistance material like the plastic of plastic jugs, quickly. Otherwise, it wouldn't make a difference whether you leave it at the gas station in your truck or if you put it on the ground. Also, accidents would happen way more often.

It would be interesting to see results of measurements of the static charge, depending on the setup. With a procedure as described by Tim, a connection of the gas can to the airframe through the human body, possibly combined with a wire one holds in his hand, should be more than sufficient. To use a metal funnel just moves the spark somewhere else, if for some reason a sufficiently large difference between the fuel's and the aircraft's electric potential exists.

People who work with electronic parts, of which many are very sensitive to static charges, use the same principle. They ground themselves with a wristband, the electronic component again lies on a conductive, grounded mat. Even though the housings of electronic components also have a very high resistance and the contact surface with the mat is a lot smaller than when we hold a gas can in our hand, it still reliably equalizes different electric potentials.

99-261-005-S01


AS4.JPG


Properly done, I don't see a risk of blowing myself up, refueling from a gas can. To fall off the ladder might however indeed be a danger. For me, this is mainly a question of convenience, the jugs might possibly also be a bit too heavy for my wife.


So, I did some more research on mobile fuel tanks. I thought a small trailer with a setup, similar to the one Ben uses, would be nice.

Either a 55 gal. fuel drum or a tank like this would seem good:
481515_400x400.jpg


However, all the cheap fuel tanks have the interesting language 'not intended for use with gasoline' in their description. Tanks which are approved for use with with gasoline start at around $1,000. I was wondering what the reason for this is. Is this just a question of liability? At least the aluminum tanks seem to be bare on the inside, that some coating comes of can therefore hardly be the reason. :dunno:
 
timwinters said:
Oh, jeezus, that's a tad bit melodramatic, wouldn't you say?

I use a damp towel. It's spread on the wing and remains in contact with the filler neck, funnel and 5 gallon can. I also make sure the three are physically touching and never pick the 5 gallon can up high to drain the last bit.

There's also a huge difference between the risk involved in the humid Midwest and arid southwest. But even here, I'm far more cautious in the winter than I am in the summer.

I've probably toted over 7,000 gallons of gas to the airport this way.



You can't gravity feed a high wing aircraft from one of these. They don't sit high enough. that is unless you jerry rig it to make it sit higher yet.

Also, I seriously doubt Oliver will burn enough fuel to use 250 gallons before it ages to the point that it's not to be trusted. I won't put MoGas in my plane that's older than 30...45 days. I put it in my farm truck.

Besides, I don't know of any public airport in our area that would allow one of these on their grounds.
Click to expand...

As a person who has gone through two back surgeries for similar activities, no, not melodramatic in the least. Take it for what it's worth, hauling 35lbs multiple times up a ladder loaded asymmetrically, then twisting and hauling it shoulder height to hold out in front of you.

Take a look at the motions involved, then look at the construction of your spine and how the jelly donuts we call discs are situatated and you will readily why this process is sheer stupidly brought about by our cultural bias to value money more than life. I'd pay $3k not to have to go through the ****ing pain again. If I had to haul gas cans to use MoGas, I would only burn 100LL.

People can be as stupid as they please as long as I don't have to get called to the carpet for the result. I would never allow my crew to do it. All it takes is one slip, heck, not even that just get in a hurry and pick that last can up wrong, and you are in serious nerve pain agony.
 
German guy said:
Hmmm... It seems as whether you are right. The document is listed under the section 'Commercial vehicle enforcement', in the text they also only talk about 'Material Of Trade', which indeed does not seem to apply to the transport of fuel for personal use. Beside of this, they refer to the 'Federal Hazardous Materials Regulations', where I only found regulations which are applicable for the ' transportation of hazardous materials in commerce'.

Now, the question is which, if any, regulations apply to the personal transport of gasoline? Everything I found, seems to refer to the transport of hazardous material in combination with some form of business. What about the container, I put the fuel in? :dunno:




A tank with a pump, permanently installed on a trailer, would actually be my preferred solution. Boat tanks might be an option or 2x 55 Gal. drums. When I searched around, I found a few discussions in other forums, in which the 119 gal. Stewartb mentioned, were discussed, however with no links to the actual regulation. I also specifically searched for regulations, which include this volume, but only came up with documents, which again only seem to apply to the business related transport of fuel.
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Hell, just buy a junk jetski off craigslist for a hundred bucks that comes with a decent trailer. Rip the engine out of it and put a giant fuel tank in it's hull. Some kid rear ends you pulling your jetski and nobody will think twice.

Or just buy a john boat with a trailer then stick a big tank in the center of it. Anyone asks why the hell your john boat needs so much gas tell them you're planning on crossing the atlantic. They'll just walk away shaking their head.

I use 5 gallon gas cans for the Flybaby, but only because it holds 16 gallons max. No way I would try that with a Cessna, way too much work, you're on the right track with figuring out a way to do a proper tank and pump.
 
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German guy said:
Nice setup. Is the t-connection for refueling?
I don't have a truck but a trailer hitch. I could put the drum on a small trailer and leave it permanently on it.
Click to expand...


I put the Tee in there to fill the drum at the gas station.. But as it turns out the filler nozzle at the station fits perfectly into the drum's top screw in vent so I have never used that Tee contraption at all....
 
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Henning said:
As a person who has gone through two back surgeries for similar activities, no, not melodramatic in the least. Take it for what it's worth, hauling 35lbs multiple times up a ladder loaded asymmetrically, then twisting and hauling it shoulder height to hold out in front of you. .
Click to expand...

Hold it? I set the 5 gallon can on the wing, tip it over onto the funnel, walk away and do the pre/post flight inspection while the fuel transfers. I spill nary a drop.

One good part about the self venting nozzles that were available on Blitz cans before the latest garbage safety nozzles were required is:

They're slow but, when the tank starts getting full, they automatically shut down. This because, as the level of fuel in the tank rises and the tip of the funnel submerges in fuel, the flow from funnel into tank slows. Then the funnel starts filling and the tip of the 5 gal can's nozzle goes under. Because of this the can can't vent and the flow slows dramatically. You can hear this change of flow and then manually tend the last bit of the fill-up.
 
timwinters said:
Hold it? I set the 5 gallon can on the wing, tip it over onto the funnel, walk away and do the pre/post flight inspection while the fuel transfers. I spill nary a drop.

One good part about the self venting nozzles that were available on Blitz cans before the latest garbage safety nozzles were required is:

They're slow but, when the tank starts getting full, they automatically shut down. This because, as the level of fuel in the tank rises and the tip of the funnel submerges in fuel, the flow from funnel into tank slows. Then the funnel starts filling and the tip of the 5 gal can's nozzle goes under. Because of this the can can't vent and the flow slows dramatically. You can hear this change of flow and then manually tend the last bit of the fill-up.
Click to expand...


He has a high wing Cessna, he has to do all this from a ladder.

I don't really give a ****, he's been warned, my karmic duty is complete. I did stupid things too, he'll do his. I quit doing stupid things to save money because it always ends up costing more in the long run anyway. Everybody learns their own lessons I guess.
 
Henning said:
He has a high wing Cessna, he has to do all this from a ladder.

I don't really give a ****, he's been warned, my karmic duty is complete. I did stupid things too, he'll do his. I quit doing stupid things to save money because it always ends up costing more in the long run anyway. Everybody learns their own lessons I guess.
Click to expand...

For someone who doesn't give a **** you sure do waste a bunch of space with yet another series of inane diatribes. :rolleyes:
 
Henning said:
He has a high wing Cessna, he has to do all this from a ladder.
Click to expand...

Really? I didn't know that, a 172 is a high wing? Really? :rolleyes2:

Maybe you haven't noticed but so do I. Don't tell me I have to post a vid on YouTube to show how easy it is.
 
Yes, most pump hoses bond (not ground) nozzle and pump. Mine does. The issue I posted the article for revolves around plastic jugs with plastic nozzles. Often dispensed by a human wearing synthetic clothing after he pulls the jugs from the plastic-lined pickup bed. Consider it or don't. My interest is providing the information.
 
Stewartb said:
For you guys who may be curious about fuel handling and static risks here's an article for you. Knowledge is always better than ignorance although it's often said that ignorance is bliss. Your choice.

http://nciaai.com/articles/doc_download/8-static-electricity
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Interesting statement. Kinda shoots a hole in the dispenser being the actual problem. I still laugh every time I see the ground on the exhaust. There was a huge thread about how poorly grounded the exhaust is to the airplane somewhere. It might have been vansairforce.net and many many people checked theirs and most were a poor ground.

Fowler estimates that approximately 80% of static related ignitions at fuel dispensers​
result from static accumulation on clothing discharging to the fueling system within an explosive atmosphere. He also indicated that electrostatic discharge involving human tissue may require up to three times the energy to achieve the MIE than if accumulated on other objects.​
21​
​
​
​

 
Henning, I understand your concerns and value your input. Yes, I really do, even though I would think that a few jugs per week can't be bad for the back, if its done right.
But then again, I have no personal experience, so maybe I'm underestimating the risks.


Henning said:
Can't fix stupid [...]
Click to expand...

Now, this is where you lost me. :mad:


@ Ben:
Interesting. I would have thought that the nozzle at the gas station has a larger outside diameter than the drum's 3/4" drum's venting hole. I actually spent quite some time yesterday evening to search for drums with two 2" fittings, but couln't find any. :rolleyes:

Currently, I am leaning towards getting one of the small ultily trailers, onto which I would install a plywood deck and a transfer tank. I think a transfer tank will be easier to mount than a 55 gal. drum. What still puzzles me, though, is why most tanks are not approved for gasoline and if there is possibly a good reason for that!? :dunno:

Anyway, this one here holds 110 gal., is DOT certified, approved for gasoline and also seems to better made than the cheaper ones. The price is also still acceptable: $607.14 + $165 for freight.
18-7338-Product_Primary_ImagejmeProductImageSize.jpg

http://www.jmesales.com/product/110...angular-refueling-transfer-tank,7338,5056.htm

Their refurbished transfer pump / filter package also seems to be a good offering. $302.69
18-10923-Product_Primary_Image.jpg

http://www.jmesales.com/product/gpi-repackaged-115v-12gpm-transfer-pump-w-filter-kit,10923,4530.htm

The tank-depot apparently sells the same tanks. Lower cost per tank, but higher freight: http://www.tank-depot.com/productdetails.aspx?part=ATI-TTR110

I know that quite a few people fly their O-300 exclusively with Mogas, I would however feel more comfortable if the engine would still get some lead. For AVGAS, I would stick with gas cans / jugs.

This setup should be perfectly legal, safe and will probably run somewhere between $1,000 and $1,500.
 
Stewartb said:
[...] The issue I posted the article for revolves around plastic jugs with plastic nozzles. Often dispensed by a human wearing synthetic clothing after he pulls the jugs from the plastic-lined pickup bed. Consider it or don't. My interest is providing the information.
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I only skim read the article, but is seems to say exactly what I said above. Don't fill the can in the bed of your truck or your car's trunk, touch the can on its outside with the nozzle, to discharge any remaining static voltage and make sure that everything is on the same electric potentiation when you start to fuel your aircraft. The human body (skin to skin and not through thick clothing) or Tim's wet towel have such a low resistance that when the can and the plane get in contact with either of them in between, their electric potential will be equalized.
 
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