Do something or wait for the smoking hole

[Tom-D]

I'm not worried about much of anything. I just want to saw his spar partway in half. I really can't make it any clearer. Use Sawzall(this is a slender, handheld saw with a reciprocating blade out the front), to saw spar.

QED

I'd bet my bottom buck you'd get shot trying

 

[MAKG1]

What I would like to do: Use my Sawzall on the underside of his wing spar, about 40% through should do it.

What I would actually do: Swear at him often, and post a thread about it online.

What I should do: Have a private chat with him, and about half of the pilots based there. However, given that Tom has said this is a waste of breath, that's good enough for me to scotch that idea.

What I would not do: Call/write and report him.

What is this? An airport or a middle school?

We're supposedly adults here, so that "I'll get you back rather than report you" bit has no place. Most of us figured out that didn't work very well in our early teens.

Not to mention, it makes little sense to kill a guy because he might kill himself. It takes pretty strange logic to come up with that.

There is no shame in going for help rather than resorting to obviously half witted plans. There is a lot of shame in vandalism and especially sabotage.

 

[luvflyin]

No, the problem is, no one is in charge of this airport

Is someone supposed to be? Isn't there some kind of organization? HOA, board of directors, some committe? Anything? How many of you are there? How many think he is unsafe?

 

[Tom-D]

Is someone supposed to be? Isn't there some kind of organization? HOA, board of directors, some committe? Anything? How many of you are there? How many think he is unsafe?

Privately owned, absentee slum lord, with an airport manager that does not have the power to do anything.

 

[FlySince9]

Unless you can get a petition of other mortified locals that feel your same sentiment and are willing to march on the FSDO or whatever other local overseer there may be for the airport...My vote is wait for the smoking hole... (which you can spit into if it makes you feel better)

 

[ateamer]

Bud Holland.

 

[Caramon13]

Does he file a flight plan for these excursions?

 

[Tom-D]

.My vote is wait for the smoking hole.

Both Brian and I believe that is inevitable.

 

[Matthew]

The problem I still see is that he does these maneuvers in such a way that people on the ground run. Smoking himself is his business, but if that were my hangar, and my life or family that was continually put at risk, I still think this rises above the level of being called "airport cop".

 

[Dan Thomas]

I go by the fly and let fly, if someone does something stupid flying I just let it go rather than get into it. Local airport guy likes to takeoff lift off go into a 45 to 60 degree bank to the left then to the right. Accelerate about 20 feet over the ground pull up over the hangar about 50 feet not sure as most of us are just trying to get out of his way...

You guys know what an accelerated stall is, right? This sounds like one coming right up...

 

[luvflyin]

Code Red

 

[Dav8or]

Video this thing and post it here. I have no idea from your description what in the world he is doing. If he really does do it all the time, make more videos, then if the day actually comes, you can make the NTSB's job super easy.

If you post a video that includes the N number, somebody here might be the snitch for you, but like others have said, it's likely the FSDO will do nothing about it. It sounds like a pretty sad airport. Hopefully the rent's cheap.

 

[James331]

Snitch away. It isn't illegal to float down the runway, nor is it dangerous.

It IS illegal to fly 50' over people and buildings. And someone has pointed out 91.303, which is central to an interesting case from about 10 years ago - http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1164943.html. Then there is always 91.13.

Bottom line I think - unless the aircraft requires this kind of maneuver for operation, it's probably unsafe and illegal.

Really

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9ffPOwtAI9I


A experienced pilot doing a VNE low pass is safer than a weekend warrior doing a 100 mile "stabilized approach" 10kts over vref into most strips.


As for safe, no such thing

As for illegal, nowadays life is illegal.


Mind your own, if he is not hurting anyone, or he isn't IMMANENTLY putting someone at risk, leave it alone, even if he is, I'm not going to deal with the gooberment. If it's not important enough for you to deal with it, just worry about your own life.

 

[MAKG1]

Really

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9ffPOwtAI9I


A experienced pilot doing a VNE low pass is safer than a weekend warrior doing a 100 mile "stabilized approach" 10kts over vref into most strips.


As for safe, no such thing

As for illegal, nowadays life is illegal.


Mind your own, if he is not hurting anyone, or he isn't IMMANENTLY putting someone at risk, leave it alone, even if he is, I'm not going to deal with the gooberment. If it's not important enough for you to deal with it, just worry about your own life.

You consider St. Barth's to be "most strips?"

Where the hell do you fly?

Very, very, very VERY simplistic thinking. It only works if nothing one person does affects another. Life just isn't like that.

 

[James331]

Every body around the airport knows who he is, nothing has happened yet, and probably won't.

Yeah, nope, not buying it.

So now aside from turning as he takes off (oh the humanity!!!)... now he's cutting through the DZ jump pattern.... and not one fun jumper, or TI, or DZO has straightened him up? not buying it for one second.


Jumpers arnt exactly the soft shoed feminine, mommy may I, men we encounter today, they tend to be somewhat successful in life (jumping ain't cheap) and they take very calculated risks, the know the difference between being reckless (bad) and taking calculated risks (fine).


I'm going to stick to my prior statement, worry about your own flying (cough, cough Tom), and let people live their lives.

At what point do I become my brother's keeper? If I dropped a dime on everyone I ever saw doing something stupid I'd not only be out of dimes but I'd not have changed a thing.

Exactly.


Also it's not like he's rolling inverted and doing a low inverted pass over the parking lot while drinking a 40, he's doing a turning climb out, get a life folks.

You consider St. Barth's to be "most strips?"

Where the hell do you fly?

Very, very, very VERY simplistic thinking. It only works if nothing one person does affects another. Life just isn't like that.

Yup, just like ANY strip, if you're over half way down the runway and you haven't touched down, you F'd up, go around. I've seen weekend warriors slam brakes on 5,000'+ Easy peasy strips, just don't manage energy.

AND YUP, it's just that simplistic, it's called freedom, leave others alone unless they are hurting you or others.

If he and his family in the back are cool with it, initiate operation mind your own business.

 

[wilkersk]

I'm familiar with both Brian and Tom. And, I'm familiar with the airport they're talking about. I have no reason to doubt that what they're describing is indeed a case of a pilot being a dumbazz and there are specific prohibitions in the FARs against doing what they describe (and you don't have to interpret the gray areas in 91.303 or 91.13 either).

I can also understand their reluctance at a confrontation with the individual, the owner, manager, or the FAA. That little airport has been both a pain in the azz and the only (affordable) game in town for quite a few people for a long time.---added--- it may not be once the "smoking hole" --- has been created and dealt with, hence Brian's concern (I think!)...

I still think a blanket party with a sock full of quarters is the way to go!

 

[BigBadLou]

Really

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9ffPOwtAI9I

Seen this dumba** a dozen times. But today was the first time I noticed the goat!

 

[Dav8or]

Also it's not like he's rolling inverted and doing a low inverted pass over the parking lot while drinking a 40, he's doing a turning climb out, get a life folks.

And if he was flying low inverted passes with a 40 in his hand, would you snitch on him then, or would you just let him do his thing and mind your own business?

 

[MAKG1]

AND YUP, it's just that simplistic, it's called freedom, leave others alone unless they are hurting you or others.

So, you must wait until someone gets hurt before you act?

Must be a lot of missing limbs and corpses where you hang out.

If you can see a likely result of stupidity, the time to act is BEFORE some innocent gets hurt. Otherwise, you bear some responsibility, because you saw it and ignored it.

One does not have the freedom to risk others, at least without their informed consent.

 

[Pilawt]

"Dateline -- Hogsnout Corners ...

"As the crumpled tail of the small Cessna Bonanza Cub still protruded from the smoldering roof of Mrs. Starchcollar's third-grade classroom at Hogsnout Corners Elementary School, other rich-playboy pilots from the nearby uncontrolled and unsupervised Hogsnout Corners Regional Airpark stood by and nodded their heads knowingly.

"'We all knew this was gonna happen someday,' one of them said. When asked if anyone had ever informed FAA officials of the danger beforehand, they shouted in unison, 'Pilots aren't snitches!!'"

 

[docmirror]

Liberty. Yup.

Sometimes I guess it sucks to live in a free country.

N Korea has a perfect, perfect GA safety record. Never an accident, never a fatality.

N Korea must be a GA paradise. Yup.

 

[MAKG1]

Liberty. Yup.

Sometimes I guess it sucks to live in a free country.

N Korea has a perfect, perfect GA safety record. Never an accident, never a fatality.

N Korea must be a GA paradise. Yup.

I guess the Wizard of Oz doesn't have the only straw man.

Freedom is not mutually exclusive from responsibility. If you think it is, you don't understand either one.

 

[James331]

And if he was flying low inverted passes with a 40 in his hand, would you snitch on him then, or would you just let him do his thing and mind your own business?

No, I wouldn't, point was his turning take off isn't even that big of a deal.

So, you must wait until someone gets hurt before you act?

Must be a lot of missing limbs and corpses where you hang out.

If you can see a likely result of stupidity, the time to act is BEFORE some innocent gets hurt. Otherwise, you bear some responsibility, because you saw it and ignored it.

One does not have the freedom to risk others, at least without their informed consent.

It's not my place, it's not my responsibility, and unless he puts me or mine at risk, as in real risk, I'm not going to mess with him. Sorry dude that's how freedom works.


As for his turning takeoff which somehow has generated this much fear, keep in mind, what may look dangerous to a 80hr rookie might not be dangerous to a more experienced person.

Liberty. Yup.

Sometimes I guess it sucks to live in a free country.

N Korea has a perfect, perfect GA safety record. Never an accident, never a fatality.

N Korea must be a GA paradise. Yup.

Yup

 

[docmirror]

I guess the Wizard of Oz doesn't have the only straw man.

Freedom is not mutually exclusive from responsibility. If you think it is, you don't understand either one.

Hmmmm, I'm looking at where I said that. Can't find it.

We have laws, rules, regulations, codes, policies, etc. And yet, and yet, people still do stupid stuff that may put themselves in danger.

So, how do you solve behavior problems in a free country? This is not a rhetorical question.

 

[txflyer]

I go by the fly and let fly, if someone does something stupid flying I just let it go rather than get into it.

Same here. When I see something stupid I say to myself "that stupid s.o.b. is going to kill himself" and then wonder about corn flakes or coco puffs. I'm not the world's policeman and you can't stop natural selection.

 

[Tom-D]

in the case of this airport the next smoking hole will probably be the last, then it will no longer be an airport. that will hurt every one in the area.

We all ***** when any airport goes away, yet some here advocate we allow shi-t like this to continue until GA gets another black eye.

I know you guys are better than that.

 

[MAKG1]

Hmmmm, I'm looking at where I said that. Can't find it.

We have laws, rules, regulations, codes, policies, etc. And yet, and yet, people still do stupid stuff that may put themselves in danger.

So, how do you solve behavior problems in a free country? This is not a rhetorical question.

A free country does not have unlimited freedom. Without limits, the freedom is fake. For instance, fraud is not allowed for good reason. Neither is there a recognized freedom to shoot people for fun. Similarly, there is not a freedom to recklessly endanger others with your airplane -- or your car. With the freedom to fly comes the responsibility to fly responsibly.

You have freedom until you endanger others. If your freedom comes in conflict with someone else's, you have a rather difficult comparison to make.

But all this is irrelevant. Reporting someone for being an idiot does not affect their freedom. Perhaps getting prosecuted for it might, but that's a fight to have with a government agency, not the guy who saw the idiocy.

 

[James331]

A free country does not have unlimited freedom. Without limits, the freedom is fake. For instance, fraud is not allowed for good reason. Neither is there a recognized freedom to shoot people for fun. Similarly, there is not a freedom to recklessly endanger others with your airplane -- or your car. With the freedom to fly comes the responsibility to fly responsibly.

You have freedom until you endanger others. If your freedom comes in conflict with someone else's, you have a rather difficult comparison to make.

But all this is irrelevant. Reporting someone for being an idiot does not affect their freedom. Perhaps getting prosecuted for it might, but that's a fight to have with a government agency, not the guy who saw the idiocy.

Fraud and shooting other, directly causes other harm/death, unlike doing a turning climb on takeoff.....

 

[Hank S]

There was a pilot who used to visit a field where I was based, uncontrolled but covered by radar to below pattern altitude. One evening I was puttering around the hangar, this guy decided it was time to leave. He "left" the airport a good dozen times or more after his takeoff, which was the only visit over the runway. The other times were over the ramp (both runway directions, and across it), down the taxiway between hangar rows in both directions, etc. some right side up, some upside down, some rolling.

Several of us around the hangars ran for cover a couple of times, as he was rather low and not lined up well for the gap between buildings. He did manage to pull up over the rooftops though. No bent metal, no shattered fiberglass or spilled fuel, no flames.

A month or so later, not having seen him or his brightly painted plane for a while, I asked about him. Seems his certificate was suspended. Nobody admitted dropping the dime, we didn't ask the nearby tower if they had seen him (his westward departures may have penetrated their airspace, they were kinda close). But there was a general feeling of relaxation that we had some time without worrying about him. This was expressed with sighs of relief, and rolling eyes when discussing his last visit, along with counts of how many times we ran from the ramp or the taxiway to get something solid between ourselves and his plane.

Sometimes a person has to do something. We were all glad that someone did. Do yourselves and your neighbors a favor--talk to him, talk to whoever runs radar in the area, talk to the airport manager, or talk to the local FAAsTeam safety rep or the FSDO. You'll feel much better . . . Someone has to do it, why not you?

You may save your hangar, your airplane, yourself, the other pilot and / or your airport.

 

[James331]

Well I'll be sure to drop the dime every time I see a weekend warrior land super long, I'll say he was doing a low pass

 

[Dav8or]

Same here. When I see something stupid I say to myself "that stupid s.o.b. is going to kill himself" and then wonder about corn flakes or coco puffs. I'm not the world's policeman and you can't stop natural selection.

The problem is, they often take somebody with them. There are a lot of people that will climb into an airplane with someone and think it will all be OK because the pilot has an government issued license and has been flying a long time.

This happened near my home airport not long ago. A local pilot flying a Glasair III out of a local private field bought the farm by spinning into a farm. He was doing buzz jobs and steep pull ups. The NTSB investigation exposed that he had been taking Meth and also over the counter anti drowsiness meds although not likely at peak high during the crash, but rather coming down from them.

The only problem with this was, he has a passenger with him. I seriously doubt this was the very first time this guy had up close buzzing fun with the terrain before.

 

[Tom-D]

unlike doing a turning climb on takeoff.....

It's not just a climbing turn on take off it is a direct violation of :
91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

plus :
plus he is never over 500' from other people on the ground, he is no longer in the normal traffic departure path.