Do regs require that an up-to-date VFR sectional and AFD be on board?

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DMD3.

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DMD3.
I'm aware that in the FAR/AIM, it says that pilot must become familiar with all information concerning the flight, but does it say that you must have a sectional and an airport facility directory (for a VFR flight) on board at all times, even if you stay in the pattern?:dunno:

Still haven't gotten a device to use Foreflight yet, and I'm wanting to fly tomorrow but the FBO does not have any sectionals or AFDs for sale.
 
No, none of that is required at all, let alone up to date. But it's a Real Good Idea. Getting that stuff wrong can be inconvenient.

With a couple of very specific exceptions like 14 CFR 93.95(c).
 
MAKG1 said:
No, none of that is required at all, let alone up to date. But it's a Real Good Idea. Getting that stuff wrong can be inconvenient.

With a couple of very specific exceptions like 14 CFR 93.95(c).
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Oh I'm very well aware of that. A lot of my flying includes pleasure & sight-seeing flying, and also flying to airports that I am very familiar with (have the runways, CTAF and AWOS frequencies memorized).
 
DMD3. said:
Oh I'm very well aware of that. A lot of my flying includes pleasure & sight-seeing flying, and also flying to airports that I am very familiar with (have the runways, CTAF and AWOS frequencies memorized).
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It sucks when they change.

Monterey recently changed its ground frequency. And wouldn't you know it? The 430 database was a month out of date.
 
DMD3. said:
I'm aware that in the FAR/AIM, it says that pilot must become familiar with all information concerning the flight, but does it say that you must have a sectional and an airport facility directory (for a VFR flight) on board at all times, even if you stay in the pattern?:dunno:

Still haven't gotten a device to use Foreflight yet, and I'm wanting to fly tomorrow but the FBO does not have any sectionals or AFDs for sale.
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There is an FAA FAQ on this: "What is the FAA policy for carrying current charts?"
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/faq/#q8b
 
From the FAA:

The FAA's July/August 1997 issue of FAA Aviation News on "current" aeronautical charts provided the following information:
"You can carry old charts in your aircraft." "It is not FAA policy to violate anyone for having outdated charts in the aircraft."
"Not all pilots are required to carry a chart." "91.503..requires the pilot in command of large and multiengine airplanes to have charts." "Other operating sections of the FAR such as Part 121 and Part 135 operations have similar requirements."
..."since some pilots thought they could be violated for having outdated or no charts on board during a flight, we need to clarify an important issue. As we have said, it is NOT FAA policy to initiate enforcement action against a pilot for having an old chart on board or no chart on board." That's because there is no regulation on the issue.
..."the issue of current chart data bases in handheld GPS receivers is a non-issue because the units are neither approved by the FAA or required for flight, nor do panel-mounted VFR-only GPS receivers have to have a current data base because, like handheld GPS receivers, the pilot is responsible for pilotage under VFR.
"If a pilot is involved in an enforcement investigation and there is evidence that the use of an out-of-date chart, no chart, or an out-of-date database contributed to the condition that brought on the enforcement investigation, then that information could be used in any enforcement action that might be taken."
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This is the pertinent FAR. Short version is if you screw up or such as fly into restricted air space or run off the end of a runway for example it will be hard to prove that you did a legal preflight if you pull out a 3 year old Sectional.

§91.103 Preflight action.
Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight. This information must include—

(a) For a flight under IFR or a flight not in the vicinity of an airport, weather reports and forecasts, fuel requirements, alternatives available if the planned flight cannot be completed, and any known traffic delays of which the pilot in command has been advised by ATC;

(b) For any flight, runway lengths at airports of intended use, and the following takeoff and landing distance information:

(1) For civil aircraft for which an approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual containing takeoff and landing distance data is required, the takeoff and landing distance data contained therein; and

(2) For civil aircraft other than those specified in paragraph (b)(1) of this section, other reliable information appropriate to the aircraft, relating to aircraft performance under expected values of airport elevation and runway slope, aircraft gross weight, and wind and temperature.
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In other words it will be a lot easier for them to accept that a error is an honest mistake if you have current information with you.



Brian
 
DMD3. said:
...even if you stay in the pattern?:dunno:
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An incident last month made me contemplate that line. Because I've done the same when it comes to fuel quantity.

What happens if the only usable runway gets closed due to a disabled aircraft. Do you know where your alternate is and how to get there? Do you have enough fuel to get there?
 
brcase said:
This is the pertinent FAR. Short version is if you screw up or such as fly into restricted air space or run off the end of a runway for example it will be hard to prove that you did a legal preflight if you pull out a 3 year old Sectional.

§91.103 Preflight action.
Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight. This information must include—

(a) For a flight under IFR or a flight not in the vicinity of an airport, weather reports and forecasts, fuel requirements, alternatives available if the planned flight cannot be completed, and any known traffic delays of which the pilot in command has been advised by ATC;

(b) For any flight, runway lengths at airports of intended use, and the following takeoff and landing distance information:

(1) For civil aircraft for which an approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual containing takeoff and landing distance data is required, the takeoff and landing distance data contained therein; and

(2) For civil aircraft other than those specified in paragraph (b)(1) of this section, other reliable information appropriate to the aircraft, relating to aircraft performance under expected values of airport elevation and runway slope, aircraft gross weight, and wind and temperature.
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In other words it will be a lot easier for them to accept that a error is an honest mistake if you have current information with you.



Brian
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Runways don't get shortened very often.:D
 
If you do nothing else at least check Notams.
 
"Preflight Action" doesn't have anything to do with what you carry on-board except in the ind of some delusional inspectors.

91.103 is not met by carrying even "current" AF/D's and charts with you.
You're expected to look at them.
 
Good question. The topic came up at a FAAST seminar last month at KBTV. The presenter was unsure, but no fewer than 3 flight instructors from the audience chimed in to confirm that "the regs require" current charts aboard the aircraft. I did my own research later that night and found an AOPA article that says much the same thing as folks here are saying - if you bust airspace that you should have known about, the feds will use your lack of a current (or any) chart aboard as evidence against you in a 91.103 violation. But you won't get violated for not carrying a chart at a ramp check, and unless you fall under 91.503, there is really no specific regulation that says you must carry charts.

That said, I don't think anyone would argue that it's a good idea to leave the charts at home, and I have my iPad + ForeFlight + iPhone backup with me on every flight, even if it's just in the pattern.
 
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azure said:
Good question. The topic came up at a FAAST seminar last month at KBTV. The presenter was unsure, but no fewer than 3 flight instructors from the audience chimed in to confirm that "the regs require" current charts aboard the aircraft.
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Sounds like a couple of years ago when I was at a seminar and the topic of the new instrument proficiency verbiage came up. The presenter plus a half dozen "knowledgable" people in the audience stated that the new verbiage required an IPC every six months. I just rolled my eyes and kept my mouth shut...so unlike me, I know.
 
I would say sort of. That line in the regulations that say that pilots must be familiar with all information pertinent to the flight including at the arrival airport as well as back up plans if the flight can not be completed as planned. In a strict reading of that line, if the information on your charts is out of date, you may be in violation of that. The catch is nowhere in that regulation does it say that info must be in the plane.
 
Do you have a copy of the regulations? If not, they are available at www.faa.gov. If you can't find a regulation requiring a chart, current or not, or an A/FD, then you do not need either.

Bob Gardner
 
teejayevans said:
And on a related topic, do you need to have GPS DB current?
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VFR-no.
IFR-depends on the unit and the write up in the aircrafts flight manual. Our 430 / 530 just requires the pilot to verify the accuracy of the GPS data with a current chart to ensure nothing has changed.
 
I have known a DPE to break off a PPL oral when the candidate only had printed off pages of the AFD for airports that might be relevant instead of having an actual copy of the book.
 
flyingron said:
"Preflight Action" doesn't have anything to do with what you carry on-board except in the ind of some delusional inspectors.

91.103 is not met by carrying even "current" AF/D's and charts with you.
You're expected to look at them.
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True, with a few exceptions.
My backyard comes to mind;)

​
New York Class B Airspace Hudson River and
East River Exclusion Special Flight Rules Area (SFRA)


https://www.faasafety.gov/files/gslac/courses/content/79/776/kneeboard.pdf

​

New York TAC or Helicopter Route Chart [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]– Onboard (current edition)
[/FONT][/FONT]
 
Graueradler said:
I have known a DPE to break off a PPL oral when the candidate only had printed off pages of the AFD for airports that might be relevant instead of having an actual copy of the book.
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The DPE needs to know the applicant can use the required publications in any scenario he decides on.
From The PTS:

Task D: Cross-Country Flight Planning (ASEL and ASES)
References: 14 CFR part 91; FAA-H-8083-25; AC 61-84;
Navigation Charts; AFD; AIM; NOTAMS.
Objective: To determine that the applicant:
1. Exhibits satisfactory knowledge of the elements related to
cross-country flight planning by presenting and explaining a
pre-planned VFR cross-country flight, as previously
assigned by the examiner. On the day of the practical test,
the final flight plan shall be to the first fuel stop, based on
maximum allowable passengers, baggage, and/or cargo
loads using real-time weather.
2. Uses appropriate and current aeronautical charts.
 
nosehair said:
The DPE needs to know the applicant can use the required publications in any scenario he decides on.
From The PTS:

Task D: Cross-Country Flight Planning (ASEL and ASES)
References: 14 CFR part 91; FAA-H-8083-25; AC 61-84;
Navigation Charts; AFD; AIM; NOTAMS.
Objective: To determine that the applicant:
1. Exhibits satisfactory knowledge of the elements related to
cross-country flight planning by presenting and explaining a
pre-planned VFR cross-country flight, as previously
assigned by the examiner. On the day of the practical test,
the final flight plan shall be to the first fuel stop, based on
maximum allowable passengers, baggage, and/or cargo
loads using real-time weather.
2. Uses appropriate and current aeronautical charts.
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But that is only for checkrides, and goes beyond the meaning of the OP.

Bob Gardner
 
drotto said:
I would say sort of. That line in the regulations that say that pilots must be familiar with all information pertinent to the flight including at the arrival airport as well as back up plans if the flight can not be completed as planned. In a strict reading of that line, if the information on your charts is out of date, you may be in violation of that. The catch is nowhere in that regulation does it say that info must be in the plane.
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They say you need to do that PREFLIGHT. What part of PREFLIGHT to people not understand. That regulation doesn't say squat about what you carry in the aircraft.
 
redtail said:
True, with a few exceptions.
My backyard comes to mind;)

​
New York Class B Airspace Hudson River and
East River Exclusion Special Flight Rules Area (SFRA)


https://www.faasafety.gov/files/gslac/courses/content/79/776/kneeboard.pdf

​

New York TAC or Helicopter Route Chart [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]– Onboard (current edition)
[/FONT][/FONT]
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AGAIN while there is a regulation requiring charts in certain LIMITED situations, NOTHING I said was wrong.

91.103 has NOTHING to do with what you carry in the aircraft. It doesn't matter if you're flying a G-V or blasting down the Hudson at 50' AGL.
 
flyingron said:
AGAIN while there is a regulation requiring charts in certain LIMITED situations, NOTHING I said was wrong.

91.103 has NOTHING to do with what you carry in the aircraft. It doesn't matter if you're flying a G-V or blasting down the Hudson at 50' AGL.
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Agreed.
I was just pointing out that some "delusional inspectors" could violate you after a beautiful scenic flight in the SFRA:rolleyes:. Just something to be aware of, that's all.
93.351 (d)
 
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flyingron said:
91.103 has NOTHING to do with what you carry in the aircraft. It doesn't matter if you're flying a G-V or blasting down the Hudson at 50' AGL.
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I'll disagree with the blanket statement (especially the capitalized "NOTHING")

As an left field example, in 2009, the Chief Counsel was asked whether failing to add fuel beyond the 91.167 planning requirements could be considered a 91.103 violation:

Although this section does not specifically require a pilot to add fuel in addition to the reserve and alternate airport fuel required under § 91.167, the pilot in command must consider information obtained during preflight planning when determining the correct amount of fuel required for the flight.
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..and in fact, there was an enforcement action in this type of fuel planning scenario with one of the violations being of 91.103: http://www.ntsb.gov/legal/o_n_o/docs/Aviation/4696.pdf

Although the very few cases involving charts do not go the 91.103 route (see FAA v Knapp for example, I don't see any problem with a view of 91.103 that says that the preflight action requirement implies an obligation to act in some way based on the information. That might or might not involve having charts on board.

Bottom line is probably the Knapp case. No, there is no specific regulatory requirement for having any charts on board. But where an event leads to an enforcement action what could have been avoided with proper charts (or other forms of information), don't expect any sympathy of you respond with "i didn't have to have any!"
 
Looks like the chief counsel agrees with my statement. I still don't understand your point.
 
Graueradler said:
I have known a DPE to break off a PPL oral when the candidate only had printed off pages of the AFD for airports that might be relevant instead of having an actual copy of the book.
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If you read the PP-Airplane PTS, you'll see that a current A/FD is required for the PP-Airplane Practical Test, as well as a current AIM and other "appropriate publications", and even a vision-restricting device. Those are specific to the practical test, and additive the basic regulatory requirements for flying. Show up without them, and the test should not even start.
 
I have been ramp checked twice and was not asked for current charts or facilities guide either time.
I wouldn’t leave home without them.
Frequencies do change and my facilities guide is always well worn by the time it is out of date.
The facilities guide and current charts are a part of my flight planning.
 
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Nobody said it was prudent to fly without some current source of information. In these days of electronic charting, there's little reason not to have everything up to date anyhow. But the FAA doesn't attempt to regulate every aspect of flight that might happen, but rather just comes back later to find some rule to pervert to hang you if you screw up later.
 
redtail said:
New York TAC or Helicopter Route Chart [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]– Onboard (current edition)
[/FONT][/FONT]
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Same for the LAX SFRA. But seriously, doesn't everybody have ForeFlight nowadays?
 
Vance Breese said:
I have been ramped checked twice and was not asked for current charts or facilities guide either time.
I wouldn’t leave home without them.
Frequencies do change and my facilities guide is always well worn by the time it is out of date.
The facilities guide and current charts are a part of my flight planning.
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I've done Part 91 ramp checks and I never asked for charts, and most inspectors don't. On a Part 135 check it's different as they have set requirements.
 
RotorAndWing said:
I've done Part 91 ramp checks and I never asked for charts, and most inspectors don't.
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That may be true, but FAA Order 8900.1 does list "Determine if pertinent and current aeronautical charts are available." as item F.10) on the procedure for conducting a Part 91 Ramp Inspection, so don't be too surprised if an Inspector does ask the question on a ramp check. And if the inspector does and you don't, you should be prepared for a few more searching questions to follow.
 
Ron Levy said:
That may be true, but FAA Order 8900.1 does list "Determine if pertinent and current aeronautical charts are available." as item F.10) on the procedure for conducting a Part 91 Ramp Inspection, so don't be too surprised if an Inspector does ask the question on a ramp check. And if the inspector does and you don't, you should be prepared for a few more searching questions to follow.
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Since by your own admission you have never experienced a ramp check, and considering 8900.1 is guidance and not a regulation, most inspectors don't go chasing each and every item in the guidance. There is no regulation requiring a part 91 pilot to have "current" charts, so other than saying "gee, up to date charts would be nifty" I don't see any point in chasing it down.
 
Ron Levy said:
That may be true, but FAA Order 8900.1 does list "Determine if pertinent and current aeronautical charts are available."
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Emphasis Mine.

"Pertinent" for a $100 hamburger run is different from a 1000NM XC.

I suspect that anybody taking off on a long XC will need the relevant charts with them anyway.
 
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