DME fixes for G430?

whereisrandall

whereisrandall

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Randall Williams
Hi gang. Please forgive me if this one's been answered before, I couldn't find it elsewhere here.

Scenario: I'm in Inverness Florida, headed to Tallahassee. I tell Fore Flight KINF-KTLH, and ask its route advisor what ATC's been giving for clearance between those two points.

The "Airway" option that it gives me is ridiculously routed, but the "ATC Cleared" list gives four really good routes between the two airports. Trick is, they all involve navigating to a DME fix. One of them reads:

KINF-SZW128R/081-KTLH

Take off, and go directly to the 81 DME spot on the 128 radial of the SZW VOR, then KTLH. Easy. Except I don't know how to tell the Garmin to do that. I could stick a user waypoint there, but I can't legally navigate to that user waypoint in IFR. If it were a named fix or intersection, that would be pretty straightforward. But it's not.

An ATP buddy tells me that entering "SZW 128/81" will do it on the FMS in his Embraer, but the GNS 430W not so much.

Anybody know how to do this? I haven't gotten a clearance like this yet, though I know it's coming - just trying to stay ahead of the airplane.

Shiny side up,

Randall
 
I have never been given a clearance to a radial/dme direct. my EMB fms will not do it, i have to build a fix and then fly to the fix. they will normally clear you to a fix on that airway. the only exception is that I have been on an airway and given a holding fix at a dme on that radial.

i was just looking at that on the chart and V295 is the 127R of szw but it is only 90 miles from cty to szw the route should be direct cty v295 szw

also even though we are /G we never get direct tlh in a clearance it is alwas szw tlh. they will change that air born but they will never give it that way in the clearance.


bob
 
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Thanks Bob. I'm about to find out today. And it does seem strange that it's not CTY - that's what I'll file, and we'll see what I get.

Skywag, I forget which FAR it is, but the specifics around GPS navigation in IFR say that you can't pick your own.
 
On the 430/530 you create a waypoint by turning the outside bottom right knob to the WPT selection then select the last choice on the right for user point. Name it, enter the radial and distance then save it. In FPL add that named waypoint you created, my example (A).

The 430/530 online trainer is old, had to use X40.

X40 (KINF) A SZW KTLH

SO much easier on foreflight! KINF SZW/128/81 KTLH. With the new Flightstream 210 you can upload from the iPad to the 430/530. Easier than chuggin' & Pluggin' !!
 

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whereisrandall said:
Skywag, I forget which FAR it is, but the specifics around GPS navigation in IFR say that you can't pick your own.
Click to expand...


That doesn't convince me. If you have an IFR GPS, get a clearance to a point in space, make and select it, go there, you are perfectly legal.:yes:
 
You can get cleared to a DME with a distance fix. And you can use an IFR GPS to navigate to it. Create a waypoint based on VOR radial and DME fix is how it is done. No one can tell you ATC will clear you to that waypoint, but you can always try and file that way and see what happens. Ask for it in the air is ok too.
 
I doubt if you'd get a pair of coordinates to fly to in Florida. At least, it'd surprise me heavily.

File direct, see what happens.
 
kgruber said:
That doesn't convince me. If you have an IFR GPS, get a clearance to a point in space, make and select it, go there, you are perfectly legal.:yes:
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AIM 1-2-3 and AIM 1-1-17 tell you that using a certified panel mount GPS in lieu of DME is acceptable.
 
GMascelli said:
The most they can tell you is get ready to copy....:lol:
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Well, they will probably tell you exactly that. And then they'll probably give you airways and waypoints. :)

I always laugh when I get told "You can't go direct." I CAN go direct. What you mean is I may not go direct.
 
whereisrandall said:
Scenario: I'm in Inverness Florida, headed to Tallahassee. I tell Fore Flight KINF-KTLH, and ask its route advisor what ATC's been giving for clearance between those two points.

The "Airway" option that it gives me is ridiculously routed, but the "ATC Cleared" list gives four really good routes between the two airports. Trick is, they all involve navigating to a DME fix. One of them reads:

KINF-SZW128R/081-KTLH

Take off, and go directly to the 81 DME spot on the 128 radial of the SZW VOR, then KTLH. Easy. Except I don't know how to tell the Garmin to do that. I could stick a user waypoint there, but I can't legally navigate to that user waypoint in IFR. If it were a named fix or intersection, that would be pretty straightforward. But it's not.l
Click to expand...

Sounded fishy to me. Recent, commonly cleared ATC routes (which is what these types of functions pick up) are rarely, if ever, radial/distance fixes.

So I looked at the airport pair on the en route chart and noticed that SZW128R/081 is pretty much where CTY VOR is located.

KINF-CTY-KTLH makes a heck of a lot more sense that 1 mile or two north of CTY.

Sure enough, when I put it into Foreflight, the suggested non-airway route it gave me was KINF-CTY-KTLH.
 
Thanks Mark. Yep, I wasn't understanding why it wasn't CTY (which is what I filed and got.) But now I know how to do the DME fixes, though I'm not sure where ForeFlight got these from.
 
I have yet recieved a radial ,distance in an IFR clearance. When not given radar vectors direct,usually get an intersection on an airway.
 
Maybe a dumb question, but isn't a low altitude VOR generally good for 40 miles at 1000' or more AGL? Could you even pick up the radial 81 DME from the station? Or is this theoretical clearance one that would be given only to GPS equipped aircraft that can create their own waypoint based on radial and distance information?
 
I've done a lot of IFR flying and I've never been assigned a radial/dme fix. I've seen them pop up in FAA computer specified routings, but as mentioned above, they worked out to be co-located with a charted fix.

I have been issued a routing direct to the intersection of two airways (which was not a fix itself). In that case I punted and negotiated an alternate routing to another published fix, as there was no way I could figure out how to navigate to the intersection of two radials. Not sure why I got it in the first place.
 
I have but it was for a radial that I was already on so it was sort of a degenerate case.
 
Brad Z said:
I've done a lot of IFR flying and I've never been assigned a radial/dme fix. I've seen them pop up in FAA computer specified routings, but as mentioned above, they worked out to be co-located with a charted fix.

I have been issued a routing direct to the intersection of two airways (which was not a fix itself). In that case I punted and negotiated an alternate routing to another published fix, as there was no way I could figure out how to navigate to the intersection of two radials. Not sure why I got it in the first place.
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Don't remember what equipment you're using in your airplane but I came across a youtube video a couple days ago (everything is on youtube these days) about how to enter an intersecting radial in the Garmin 430.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Don't remember what equipment you're using in your airplane but I came across a youtube video a couple days ago (everything is on youtube these days) about how to enter an intersecting radial in the Garmin 430.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jaybird - I just found it in the 430 manual as well. I had Googled, but didn't find it. 'preciate the input.
 
Pretty sure I'd get instructions to "Cross xx miles SE of PHK at or below x,000'" when approaching the Miami area from the NW.

Knew how to do it on a 430, including setting up a vertical descent profile, but no way I remember how to do it now.
 
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