Discolsing DUI Arrest on Medical

  • Placed under arrest
  • I Got my administrative suspension rescinded
  • Now it is time for 1st class med. DO I report?
Simple answer (as I understand it). You were arrested. You report.

The arrest was not rescinded, the suspension was.

NY suspends your PRIVILEGE to drive in the state that is not a suspension you have to report under 61.15

I doubt the FAA would agree with this.

Since your wife's life appears to hang on the outcome of this, I cannot suggest strongly enough that you find legal counsel for this aviation issue, as well as contact Dr. Bruce. I understand he knows the system inside out.

If you believe lying on your app is the only way you will keep your job and be able to obtain your wife's treatment, then that's your decision to make. Based on what I've read from other knowledgeable posters, I think you have other options.
 
Sure, I acknowledge that having a certificate is a privilege, not a right.

Where the confusion comes in is that the courts have determined that you have a property interest in that certificate, and revoking it requires due process - including notice and some kind of hearing.
 
Burt M,
I am sorry you do not trust anyone or believe anyone it is probably hard for you to have any friends due to if they make a mistake (which I readily admitted to) you cannot believe it, NOTHING here was fabricated. NO "trolling"

Capn Ron Call the faa like I did and they will explain it to you. You can talk to security or medical, only your privileged to drive in another state is being suspended not you license.


I have retained medical and legal assistance, for those that judge you will be judged! to ask for verification great, to call me a liar one day it will come back to you.

I am done.
 
I think, to the OP, it is time for him to stop posting.

What I desire that everyone get out of this string, is how the administrative wheels work. They work on the medical assessment of discrepancy between behaviour and BAC, e.g, TOLERANCE.

All FAA cares about is that your behavior at the roadside, is compatible with being relatively alcohol naieve. Someone naieve should be sloppy drink at 0.12, or 0.15. There is some literature evidence that at 0.2 an alcohol naieve young person can be sloppy drunk. But if you are competent at 0.12 that's Trouble in River City...or even competent at 0.07 (Randy Babbitt). Above 0.15 the formal evaluations with the specialists and the verification phone calls begin.
 
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Re: lying on a FAA doc ...

One our DPEs was caught lying, signing a form that a CFI had a renewal that included a flight check ... But it didn't involve actually flying. The DPE lost
everything. All his certificates and ratings, kaput. Next up, the DoJ Asst US
Attorney.

Do not fudge a FAA form. not even a little bit.
 
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Re: lying on a FAA doc ...

One our DPEs was caught lying, signing a form that a CFI had a renewal that included a flight check ... But it didn't involve actually flying. The DPE lost all everything. All his certificates and ratings, kaput. Next up, the DoJ Asst US Attorney.
Do not fudge a FAA form. not even a little bit.

Dang... is that what went down? I've been wondering. :-( (unless you're talking about something else; but, I don't think you are. nice guy, good buddy type...)
 
You will be hearing from the FAA before your next medical, they will be notified of your arrest. They will prompt the action.
 
I'm sorry, but your post is filled with characteristics typical of alcohol or drug abusers and addicts. Filled with "reasons" (excuses), avoidance of responsibility, drinking with the knowledge of dire consequences to your family.

Now you come here to seek support for not reporting this serious incident to the FAA (as required) based on technicalities of how the legal system handled your situation.

I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. You need to report this to the FAA as an ARREST. No, you were not convicted. That isn't what the FAA is concerned about, they are concerned about the medical implications of alcohol dependence, of which you show several symptoms.

The good news is that if this is truly your first offense, it can be "handled." It may be complicated and expensive and you may have to change your lifestyle. But it can be done.,
 
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You should have gotten rich over that one, Henning.

Not in San Diego or most of California, there you are lucky if you survive your encounter with the police. They shot a hog tied guy in the back of the head live on channel 10 and nothing came out of it.
 
OP,

If what you say is true, then you need to start looking for a new job right now. If reporting the arrest is going to result in a deferal, and a medical deferal is really going to cost you your job and your insurance, then start job shopping immediately. Of course, you can do COBRA for a while if you don't get a job, but that's expensive and it doesn't last forever. What you need is to make sure there is no lapse in coverage. If there is no lapse in coverage, then the ability of the group insurer for your next employer to exclude the pre-existing condition is reduced or eliminated. Under HIPPA, they cannot exclude a pre-existing condition if you have had more than 12 months of continuous coverage and there is less than a 63 day break in "creditable coverage." There may also be some more generous restrictions on the ability of the group insurer to exclude coverage under your state's laws.

Another option I suppose you might pursue is to start the re-application process sooner than your medical is due, so that the process has time be resolved so you can get the medical prior to the old one expiring. Maybe Dr. Bruce can give some guidance on what all is necessary, and the timing that is necessary. I suppose that depends on why you would lose your job. Is your job one strike and you're out, or is it just the lapse in medical that would prevent you from flying for any period of time that would cost you your job?

You need to report the arrest, because it occured. If everything else you say is true, as Dr. Bruce says, you should ultimately receive a new medical. But if you don't report, you are risking them taking everything away immediately. If they find out, they will issue an emergency revocation, and you won't be able to reapply for a year. If you think you are in a bind now, wait until you get a certified letter demanding return of all certificates immediately. You can probably negotiate that period down to 7 or 8 months, but then you are looking at check rides and written tests for every certificate and rating that you currently have that you want to reinstate at the conclusion of the period during which you are prohibited from re-applying.

I know this action by the FAA seems harsh. But please don't cast this as "the FAA is going to kill my wife." You have some options.
 
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OP,
I'm sorry for your situation with your wife and all, but we all have problems. Lying about it will only make things worse. How will it affect your family if the FAA calls you up and says surrender all your certificates, because they learned of your deception, and then they follow it up with a prosecutor who wants a $250,000 fine and a prison sentence for lying to the government?

I am not a pilot. I read the medical board out of curiosity, probably in large part because I used to be a paramedic. But if there is one thing I've learned in this forum, it is, "Listen to Dr. Bruce."

You made a bad decision - you drove drunk (without arguing the semantics of the word "drunk"). Don't compound it by making another bad decision to lie to the government.

My suggestion, as a non-pilot speaking to a pilot who is considering flushing his career down the drain, is to take your case off of this forum, and contact Dr. Bruce through his website (www.aeromedicaldoc.com). Pay him the necessary fees to look at your case, and get him on your side as an advocate, instead of debating him as an adversary. From all I've seen on this board, he will not do you wrong, but you have to be honest with him.

I wish you well.
 
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How will it affect your family if the FAA calls you up and says surrender all your certificates, because they learned of your deception, and then they follow it up with a prosecutor who wants a $250,000 fine and a prison sentence for lying to the government?
Not that I would condone lying on the application / to your AME regardless of the penalty, but in the interest of factual discussion - I have heard of pilots having certificates yanked for lying on the medical. The only case I know of where a pilot received a prison sentence (Ronald Crews) involved some pretty significant aggravating factors - incident caused directly by the condition that was hidden, while PIC of a commercial passenger carrying operation...
 
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I have a KC district horror story from a few years back. RFS Larry Wilson initiated disciplinary action against a pilot who reported 2 years earlier, a surgical procedure, but failed to list it on the then current application.

Once it was sent to the regional counsel, there was no turning back.

As many of you know, RFS Wilson was relieved of his post and bumped upstairs to MEDICAL STANDARDS in Washington!.........(OMG). But I see he isn't there anymore.

Once the lawyers got involved, it was the most expensive 14 day suspension any pilot has ever seen.

So, ridiculousness goes both ways.
 
I have a KC district horror story from a few years back. RFS Larry Wilson initiated disciplinary action against a pilot who reported 2 years earlier, a surgical procedure, but failed to list it on the then current application.

Once it was sent to the regional counsel, there was no turning back.

I thought there was a box or something about "previously reported no change". Or is it different for different classes of medical?

Similar question when did the change from "conviction" to "arrest and/or conviction" etc happen? 2008 or was it always that way?

Cheers
 
I have a KC district horror story from a few years back. RFS Larry Wilson initiated disciplinary action against a pilot who reported 2 years earlier, a surgical procedure, but failed to list it on the then current application.

Once it was sent to the regional counsel, there was no turning back.

As many of you know, RFS Wilson was relieved of his post and bumped upstairs to MEDICAL STANDARDS in Washington!.........(OMG). But I see he isn't there anymore.

Once the lawyers got involved, it was the most expensive 14 day suspension any pilot has ever seen.

So, ridiculousness goes both ways.

So - does this mean the KC district now has a better reputation? I think I got some grief from our RFS about 7-8 yrs ago, the only time I ever had to deal with that level.
 
Well, the Former Deputy, Dr. Berry, is now confirmed as the RFS. Dan seems to be more level headed.....
 
Not that I would condone lying on the application / to your AME regardless of the penalty, but in the interest of factual discussion - I have heard of pilots having certificates yanked for lying on the medical. The only case I know of where a pilot received a prison sentence (Ronald Crews) involved some pretty significant aggravating factors - incident caused directly by the condition that was hidden, while PIC of a commercial passenger carrying operation...
I didn't mean to mean that there WOULD be a prison sentence (or even a fine), but the last time I looked at a medical form (before sport pilot came out), I seem to recall that you had to sign that you understand that lying on the form CAN result in a $250k fine and 10 years in prison (emphasis mine). I'm just saying it is a possible outcome.
 
Burt M,
I am sorry you do not trust anyone or believe anyone it is probably hard for you to have any friends due to if they make a mistake (which I readily admitted to) you cannot believe it, NOTHING here was fabricated. NO "trolling"

Capn Ron Call the faa like I did and they will explain it to you. You can talk to security or medical, only your privileged to drive in another state is being suspended not you license.


I have retained medical and legal assistance, for those that judge you will be judged! to ask for verification great, to call me a liar one day it will come back to you.

I am done.

Burt's wife can't even stand him, so don't listen to his ignorance.

Hope things work out for you.
 
The place where you lost my sympathy was where you picked up the next bottle just because someone had bought a bucket of beers.

You know what? Those beers would have poured nicely down the drain and cost about $5 in wasted beer.

Now if your story is real, you've poured your life down the drain. I hope that beer was damn good.

I've had way too many functional alcoholic family members and friends who had all sorts of excuses as to why they picked up that bottle and poured another drink down the pie hole.

And none of them were truthful when confronted. The reality is, you wanted to drink. And you wanted to drink more than you wanted to be a grown up and not drink in a profession where it's well known that if you drink and drive, your career is over, and knowing you were your family's only breadwinner.

I think for that last reason alone, we're being trolled again. But if not, you are in a world of crap of your own making. Rationalization and excuses won't change that you chose to put the bottle in your face, and pour.

Sorry. No sympathy here. I have my own vices that can revoke my flying privs (smoking) that I'm still (stupidly) choosing to partake in, but even I as a recreational pilot know the FAA doesn't screw around with alcohol and I've never met a professional pilot who didn't know that fact either.

Get on the phone with a professional like Doc and do what they say if your story is real. And get off the Internet. This stuff lasts forever and is archived in lots of places.

The more details you provide about a real situation here, the more likely one of the people bound and determined to make sure you never set foot in a cockpit again without years of treatment if ever, will connect the dots and find the whole back story they need to make their case for certificate revocation.

Bare your soul somewhere you at least have some chance of privacy.

I read this board and am shocked at how rude people here are.
 
Welcome to the Internet, BTW, this place is tame.

Doesn't seem tame to me. Every time someone uses this forum as it is designed,(to ask a question anonymously) they get called a liar and get reamed out by a bunch of recreational and private pilots. I've never seen anything like it. It's an embarrassment that these guys are pilots, if you ask me. Some of the posters on here would not be allowed near me or my airplane, because their attitudes indicate some severe underlying issues. Not at all likable, and probably mentally unstable.

I think the responses should be limited to Dr. Bruce, since he is the expert. Alot of the other guys are just taking shots at a guy while he is down. Not everyone, but definitely too many.
 
I read this board and am shocked at how rude people here are.

From my perspective there was nothing rude about the cited post. Nothing at all. Tough love, but it's the only kind that is truly effective.

I love to drink. Anyone who's been out with me can attest to this. I'll get roaring sloppy drunk if allowed to do so.

But you don't see me do this EVER if vehicles are involved. No way, no how. I get together with friends over drinks all the time. If I have to drive somewhere, I don't drink anything. If I drink, I don't drive. I'll walk home before I drink and drive, and I don't care how far it is. Or I'll calla cab. I've done it before.

And I'm not even a pro. Hell, I'm not even that hot on the stick, just a lowly amateur VFR pilot. But my certificate cost me a great deal in resources, and loosing it would cost me a great deal in piece of mind. So I am utterly paranoid about drinking and driving, and I plan on staying that way.

Besides, anyone who drinks buckets of bud, bud light and or Miller light has a really serious problem already. Bad taste. Man up and get some real beer. :D
 
Doesn't seem tame to me. Every time someone uses this forum as it is designed,(to ask a question anonymously) they get called a liar and get reamed out by a bunch of recreational and private pilots. I've never seen anything like it. It's an embarrassment that these guys are pilots, if you ask me. Some of the posters on here would not be allowed near me or my airplane, because their attitudes indicate some severe underlying issues. Not at all likable, and probably mentally unstable.

I think the responses should be limited to Dr. Bruce, since he is the expert. Alot of the other guys are just taking shots at a guy while he is down. Not everyone, but definitely too many.

Tis the way of mankind, people are like that and in the Internet setting especially with annonymity all the normal social filters are removed. What you are seeing is people needing to express their authority. Since many of them lack that ability in other venues, this is one of the few they can because the ubiquitous social policy of "Zero Tollerance". With that in effect, they can spout off and not be shown where they are wrong. You can often couple this with the self righteousness of those who have quit a social taboo they enjoyed, that happens regardless of drinking, smoking, or drugs. As for tame, yeah it is, to gain some perspective look at the Usenet forums archives (Google has them I believe) at Rec.Aviation.Piloting from oh, let's say 2008. I'd send you to the AOPA forums from when they were the Yellow Board, but I don't think that's archived anywhere easily addressable. You'll see threats of finding people and causing them physical harm. We are an incomplete and competitive species.
 
What you are seeing is people needing to express their authority. Since many of them lack that ability in other venues, this is one of the few they can because the ubiquitous social policy of "Zero Tollerance". With that in effect, they can spout off and not be shown where they are wrong. .

Thank you. I agree with that 100 percent. They lack something, that's for sure.
 
I love to drink. Anyone who's been out with me can attest to this. I'll get roaring sloppy drunk if allowed to do so.

I'd be careful what you say on here. From what I've seen, there are people here that would gladly turn you in for admitting to alcohol abuse, because they are a self- righteous sort.

Of course, you said you'll get roaring sloppy drunk 'if allowed', which we as pilots are not allowed, so you're good.
 
I'd be careful what you say on here. From what I've seen, there are people here that would gladly turn you in for admitting to alcohol abuse, because they are a self- righteous sort.

Of course, you said you'll get roaring sloppy drunk 'if allowed', which we as pilots are not allowed, so you're good.

No one here is particularly self-righteous, and I know few groups with members so generous. I have to admit, talk of lying to the FAA will get hackles raised, though.

I think what the FAA is getting at is judgement. The fact that I had a glass of red wine with my pasta last night is not important. That fact that I wouldn't touch a vehicle afterward for many hours for any reason is. Pilot crashes into a park full of kiddies, folks point fingers at them. They have to be way above board.

Some of the guys inputing into this thread are real honest to Odin experts. Bruce wrote some of the rules, and is one of the most knowledgable AMEs there is. You all should listen more and ***** less.

And believe me, if I even imagined I had a problem with alcohol, I'd shut the spigot then and there. Yeah, I'd get sloppy drunk if allowed, but I haven't since grad school (well, there was that one time at the Gordon conference...). It's something I think about on a routine basis.
 
No one here is particularly self-righteous, and I know few groups with members so generous. I have to admit, talk of lying to the FAA will get hackles raised, though.

There is another great change in our society in my life time, we have gone from challenging authority and minding our own business to kowtowing to authority and snitching out our neighbors.

Since we fought the Cold War pointing out this behavior in our enemy extolling this is what will happen if 'they'win and that is what we have now become, I have to ask, "Did we win the Cold War?"
 
"No one here is particularly self-righteous."

I guess we're reading different boards.

"Some of the guys inputing into this thread are real honest to Odin experts. Bruce wrote some of the rules, and is one of the most knowledgable AMEs there is. You all should listen more and ***** less."

I THINK I SAID DR. BRUCE SHOULD BE THE ONLY ONE ALLOWED TO ANSWER. SO WE AGREE. YOU SHOULD LISTEN AS WELL.

"And believe me, if I even imagined I had a problem with alcohol, I'd shut the spigot then and there."

No, you wouldn't, because that is the definition of an alcohol problem- the inability to shut the spigot.
 
There is another great change in our society in my life time, we have gone from challenging authority and minding our own business to kowtowing to authority and snitching out our neighbors.

I can't disagree more. The FARs were mostly written in blood, and many make very good sense. Not letting drunks into the cockpit sounds like a really dandy idea to me. We are also a very small community and share a great deal of risk.

Since we fought the Cold War pointing out this behavior in our enemy extolling this is what will happen if 'they'win and that is what we have now become, I have to ask, "Did we win the Cold War?"

The Cold War was fought between planned and capitalistic economies, and was won with abandon. In case you hadn't heard, our adversary, the USSR, imploded utterly, and the Communism they extolled has been relegated to the trash heap of history where it belongs.
 
The Cold War was fought between planned and capitalistic economies, and was won with abandon. In case you hadn't heard, our adversary, the USSR, imploded utterly, and the Communism they extolled has been relegated to the trash heap of history where it belongs.

In case you've missed the last decade, Communism is alive and well with the strongest economy in the world. They have bought all the mineral resources including Uranium in Australia along with the rights to send in their labor to mine it. Right now they are the primary source of capital that is floating our economy and they buy more of our technical and physical assets on a regular basis. The Soviet Communists failed because greed an corruption failed them as it has failed us. The Chinese don't have that problem to the same extent because they execute people for it with no compunction, plus the Chinese culture is quite different with regards to considering the group before the self. This is because they have had thousands of years of experience with these population densities whereas we are still figuring it out though slowly and poorly.

If there is any question as to how this will result I'll point you to the 'party' at Cirrus where the banner extolling "Welcome our Chinese Partners" was ordered removed by the Chinese officials there with the statement, "We are not your partners, we own you.". Wall Streetnthinks it can play a game on China, but for everybit as ruthless as Wall Streeters are, they are mere puppies, Labrador Retriever puppies at that, compared to the Chinese who are hardened Pit Bulls.
 
There is another great change in our society in my life time, we have gone from challenging authority and minding our own business to kowtowing to authority and snitching out our neighbors.

Very True. And sad really...
 
In case you've missed the last decade, Communism is alive and well with the strongest economy in the world. They have bought all the mineral resources including Uranium in Australia along with the rights to send in their labor to mine it. Right now they are the primary source of capital that is floating our economy and they buy more of our technical and physical assets on a regular basis.

The Chinese are communist in name only. They have largely given up central planning in favor of private enterprise. And our debt to them is but a small fraction of the total.

The Soviet Communists failed because greed an corruption failed them as it has failed us.

No, they failed because their system was utterly inefficient and didn't allow them to compete on a level footing with us.

The Chinese don't have that problem to the same extent because they execute people for it with no compunction, plus the Chinese culture is quite different with regards to considering the group before the self. This is because they have had thousands of years of experience with these population densities whereas we are still figuring it out though slowly and poorly.

Like I said, these days they are Communist in name only. There are more socialist governments in Western Europe than China.

If there is any question as to how this will result I'll point you to the 'party' at Cirrus where the banner extolling "Welcome our Chinese Partners" was ordered removed by the Chinese officials there with the statement, "We are not your partners, we own you.". Wall Streetnthinks it can play a game on China, but for everybit as ruthless as Wall Streeters are, they are mere puppies, Labrador Retriever puppies at that, compared to the Chinese who are hardened Pit Bulls.

People said the same alarmist xenophobic nonsense when the Japanese started buying up American properties. We're still here.
 
The Chinese are communist in name only. They have largely given up central planning in favor of private enterprise. And our debt to them is but a small fraction of the total.

Have you visited China? They are Totalitarian Communist now as ever in social structure.

No, they failed because their system was utterly inefficient and didn't allow them to compete on a level footing with us.

Why was that you think? Power hungry leaders who didn't have a clue and corrupted the whole system? You also have to couple that with occidental culture of want, oriental culture is different.

Like I said, these days they are Communist in name only. There are more socialist governments in Western Europe than China.



People said the same alarmist xenophobic nonsense when the Japanese started buying up American properties. We're still here.
We sold to the Japanese at the top of the market at highly inflated prices and the Japanese were buying out of ego. We sell to the Chinese at bargain basement prices and they buy out of opportunity for global expansion because their nation needs resources. Look at what the Japanese bought, big buildings and movie studios, flash. Look what the Chinese buy, resources and technology.
 
We sold to the Japanese at the top of the market at highly inflated prices and the Japanese were buying out of ego. We sell to the Chinese at bargain basement prices and they buy out of opportunity for global expansion because their nation needs resources. Look at what the Japanese bought, big buildings and movie studios, flash. Look what the Chinese buy, resources and technology.
Ah. The real Henning is back.
I was wondering what you had done with him!
:)
 
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Maybe not. That blind spot is one of the symptoms.

Mrs. Steingar is fortuitously deathly allergic to inebriation in others. She makes a marvelous metering system. Probably a good thing, left to my own devices I could indeed stray into danger territory.
 
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