Deregistered Aircraft

[Tom-D]

IMHO trying to get paid for the $8K isn't worth the time and troubles. I'll wager the majority of the $8k is labor.
We have two aircraft at BVS that the owner has never paid the airport any ramp rental fees, the airport has completed the legal wangling to sell both aircraft. Not a single buy came forth and made a bid. Why? Trying to get the title is a real PITA. Why? simply the FAA requirements of getting a clean title with no bill of sale showing the line of ownership. plus the FAAs response time in months.

it isn't worth the hassle.

 

[poadeleted20]

No we don't know that the name in registry is the legal owner. We only know that is the last registered owner, that's big difference. aircraft change hands and the next owner does not register it, several cycles of that could cause you a real PITA.

In terms of filing the lien, that doesn't matter. If the new owner doesn't file the Bill of Sale with the FAA, then any lien filed before they do takes precedence over their Bill of Sale. There is case law on point dating back to the 1960's. Of course, finding the plane after the person with the Bill of Sale has removed it to points unknown and then going through the courts to recover the money may cost more than the $8K I understand the mechanic is owed, but if it were a lot more money, it might be worth the chase.

You got proof from this thread that the estate really is the legal owner?

No, as I haven't personally researched the title in the FAA registry, but unless the buyer files the Bill of Sale between when the person who checked the Registry did that check and when the mechanic files that lien, then as far as the FAA and courts are concerned, that lien can be perfected. See Dowell v. Beech Acceptance Corporation Inc., 3 Cal.3d 544 [L.A. No. 29751. In Bank. Nov. 16, 1970], and International Atlas Services v. Twentieth Century Aircraft Limited, 251 Cal. App. 2d 434 [Civ. No. 29739. Second Dist., Div. Two. May 31, 1967].

 

[N801BH]

Owner real sick deregistered N # dies now three x wives claim ownership of C-337 nobody has log books all claim ownership. A&P has not been paid now that the plane has been deregistered can the A&P put a lien on it or is he out of luck.

Hmmmmm..

Did any of the three divorce decrees spell out future ownership of said C337 ......

If not, they have the same chance of getting the courts to award them title to it then a bum laying on a bus bench claiming it was his..

 

[Utah-Jay]

Does anyone other that the OP know the tail number of the A/C in question?

 

[Tom-D]

. Of course, finding the plane after the person with the Bill of Sale has removed it to points unknown and then going through the courts to recover the money may cost more than the $8K I understand the mechanic is owed, but if it were a lot more money, it might be worth the chase.

No buts Ron, Its 8k and most probably 90& labor, not money out of pocket, just isn't worth the hassle

No, as I haven't personally researched the title

No one has, we don't know the N Number or if it still has one.

See Dowell v. Beech Acceptance Corporation Inc., 3 Cal.3d 544 [L.A. No. 29751. In Bank. Nov. 16, 1970], and International Atlas Services v. Twentieth Century Aircraft Limited, 251 Cal. App. 2d 434 [Civ. No. 29739. Second Dist., Div. Two. May 31, 1967].

In every one of those cases the aircraft had an N number, does this one ? I now it requires a period of time to de-register an aircraft, we don't know if this one has passed off the records or not. 5 years is long enough.

 

[Tom-D]

How do we know that this 8K wasn't the bill for recovery of a wreck? and the rubble is worth the chase?

 

[poadeleted20]

In every one of those cases the aircraft had an N number, does this one ?

Obviously it does, since the OP looked it up within the past day or so. But even if it didn't, it would still have a serial number unless it was reported "destroyed" and the serial number struck from the registry.

 

[Tom-D]

Obviously it does, since the OP looked it up within the past day or so. But even if it didn't, it would still have a serial number unless it was reported "destroyed" and the serial number struck from the registry.

Ever stop to think, the reason the A&P never did anything about collecting for over 5 years is they never had a legal work order to file the lien on? Lots of these deals are between two buddies and a hand shake.

File the lien and be damned, trying to collect, you may be waiting for years while the aircraft deteriorates into dust.

It simply isn't worth the time and troubles to collect.

 

[N801BH]

Ever stop to think, the reason the A&P never did anything about collecting for over 5 years is they never had a legal work order to file the lien on? Lots of these deals are between two buddies and a hand shake.

File the lien and be damned, trying to collect, you may be waiting for years while the aircraft deteriorates into dust.

It simply isn't worth the time and troubles to collect.

Geez.... What does it cost to file a lien... 50 bucks or so.... If it pans out and the future title holder wants clear paper then they will settle... if they want to play hardball then you are out the price of a decent steak dinner...

Like they say about the lottery.. You can't win if you don't play...

 

[Tom-D]

Geez.... What does it cost to file a lien... 50 bucks or so....

2-3 hours of your lawyers fees.

If it pans out and the future title holder wants clear paper then they will settle... if they want to play hardball then you are out the price of a decent steak dinner...

Like they say about the lottery.. You can't win if you don't play...

You can't play until your paper work (like the work order) passes the judges inspection. and if you don't have a legal work order with the owners signature authorizing the work at the estimated price you loose before you get to play.

 

[poadeleted20]

Ever stop to think, the reason the A&P never did anything about collecting for over 5 years is they never had a legal work order to file the lien on? Lots of these deals are between two buddies and a hand shake.

File the lien and be damned, trying to collect, you may be waiting for years while the aircraft deteriorates into dust.

It simply isn't worth the time and troubles to collect.

I thought the OP's question was what can be done, not what he should do. I answered that question. Whether or not it is worth doing requires a lot more information than we have.

-30-

 

[docmirror]

Wouldn't the mechanic's bill just simply go through the probate process?

Yes. It's just an entry on the debit(liability) side of the ledger. Eventually it all balances. Assets, liabilities, disbursal. Probate does this a thousand times a day in every state.

 

[Tom-D]

I thought the OP's question was what can be done, not what he should do. I answered that question. Whether or not it is worth doing requires a lot more information than we have.

-30-

The first question the court will have, " why haven't you filed this prior today? and case dismissed"

having an N number won't mean squat.

 

[Tom-D]

I thought the OP's question was what can be done, not what he should do. I answered that question.

Not really, how do we know the OP didn't read the number off the aircraft, and find it is de-registered? If it isn't in the data base it can't be filed against.

Second thought.

The aircraft will not have a valid registration, no A&P-IA can annual any aircraft that is not registered as a US aircraft. simply because A&Ps can't work on any aircraft that isn't registered as a US aircraft.

SO, the aircraft is pretty much worth less, until some body chases the ownership, gains the bill of sale signed by an authorized individual, and re-registers the aircraft in their name. plus the fact 3 ex-wives have the estate in a squabbling court case as to who gets what? good luck with that, by the time you get clear title, the aircraft will be a pile of white powder on the back line and a huge ramp fee bill to be paid.


Anyone know where the logs are? probably not.