Declining Pilot Population

I skimmed through the thread and noticed a few people talking about regulation, but I can say that September 11 specifically definitely had an impact on how much I fly and how excited I am to bring potential new pilots into the activity. For me, at least, flying went from being an incredibly fun and freeing thing to being something that could get me killed (by an F-16, not my stupidity) or sentenced to prison. And yes, I tell people that when they hear I'm a CFI and ask me what flying is like. So maybe I'm part of the problem. :wink2: In any case, September 11 took a lot of the fun out of flying and aviation in general.

Also, like someone else already pointed out, pilots can be jerks. I learned to fly in college, where my age and gender weren't barriers. In fact, I sometimes wonder if people realized I was a girl. But now? The pilots I do meet are 50 year old men...and not that there's anything wrong with that, but they do see this 30 year old woman differently than a bunch of 20 year old college students did, and they make it clear. Even in the thread I started here about being afraid to fly, a couple people suggested I find another female pilot to fly with. Why? Why should be gender even be an issue? Why can't I fly with the boys like I used to? Or is my age the issue? I'm sure a lot of pilots who start out flying younger like I did will come to that conclusion eventually as well. Pilots just aren't friendly and the crusty old pilot isn't doing the industry as a whole any favors if we want to reverse the trend.

I actually see your point.

I am very excited to be a pilot, and when I tell my friends I am learning to fly, they are are very excited about it.

But if I just met someone, I am not going to bring it up. Some people have a stigma associated with it. I don't want to be judged right off the bat.

I used to drive a 2001 Toyota MR2 Spider, and every week, someone would come up to me in the parking lot, and talk to me about my car. When I drive, and see people looking at it, they always looked up at me if they saw me looking back, they smiled.

I traded that in, and got a 2001 Porsche 911 convertible. Not a single person talked to me in the parking lot about it, and no one ever gave me a friendly look. They just thought I was some rich jerk, which was ironic, when half the people where I live bought fully loaded pickup trucks that cost more then my 5 year old car did.

Anyway, that is one thing that's changed. 30 years ago, if you were a pilot, you were respected and considered cool because of it. Today it does not create that kind of reaction. Not sure why (I have my theories, but that's for the spin zone).

As for suggesting you fly with a woman, I think that was just because people thought they might be more relatable. Sometimes, women are more comfortable working through things with other women. I don't think you should take offense to the suggestion (unless there was more to it that I don't know about).
 
This from the guy who just asked all his pilot buddies what wallet to buy? ;)

Well, if the Internet is socializing, then I'm a social butterfly!

(Interesting then that I choose to socialize in a social bees nest)
 
..... One lady was with her grandfather (also a pilot) and had gotten her private the day before and was headed to OSH, at least 2 were students on solos (I'm not including foreign students from UND) and another one was also a fairly new private just flying.

Seeing that would restore my faith in the next generation of pilots:yes:;)
 
Rose, I agree 100%. We should not be treated or looked at differently because of gender, but we are. Both my boyfriend and I are pilots and I have many male friends who are pilots that I also enjoy flying with. It is very frustrating to be asked "do you like that he's a pilot?" sure, it's cool but I like that I'm a pilot too. I've had line guys go around to the right side of the airplane and ask him what we wanted. Excuse me? When I'm working the line I assume that the women are pilots too if I get any hunt of it at all and I'm usually correct. When my mom learned to fly 35 years ago she got some horiffic comments. And although times have changed I still don't feel like we are seen as pilots but as "female pilots". It's dumb.


Maybe that's a barrier for women. Maybe women are as interested in flying. But anyone should have an equal opportunity and equal judgements that aren't based on age or gender. and I do agree, there are some very odd and creepy older pilots that have said things to me. Very weird.
 
Rose, I agree 100%. We should not be treated or looked at differently because of gender, but we are. Both my boyfriend and I are pilots and I have many male friends who are pilots that I also enjoy flying with. It is very frustrating to be asked "do you like that he's a pilot?" sure, it's cool but I like that I'm a pilot too. I've had line guys go around to the right side of the airplane and ask him what we wanted. Excuse me? When I'm working the line I assume that the women are pilots too if I get any hunt of it at all and I'm usually correct. When my mom learned to fly 35 years ago she got some horiffic comments. And although times have changed I still don't feel like we are seen as pilots but as "female pilots". It's dumb.


Maybe that's a barrier for women. Maybe women are as interested in flying. But anyone should have an equal opportunity and equal judgements that aren't based on age or gender. and I do agree, there are some very odd and creepy older pilots that have said things to me. Very weird.
I think if you are female you are going to get some strange comments that guys don't get but it's mostly because people are surprised and don't know quite how to react. Then there are the creepy ones who are sometimes but not necessarily old. However, it's all about them, not about you. When I was younger I would get irritated but now I just laugh.
 
I think if you are female you are going to get some strange comments that guys don't get but it's mostly because people are surprised and don't know quite how to react. Then there are the creepy ones who are sometimes but not necessarily old. However, it's all about them, not about you. When I was younger I would get irritated but now I just laugh.

I think I have met most of the creepy ones already.
 
Maybe that's a barrier for women. Maybe women are as interested in flying. But anyone should have an equal opportunity and equal judgements that aren't based on age or gender. and I do agree, there are some very odd and creepy older pilots that have said things to me. Very weird.

I think it's just a generational thing. Something funny that happened to me last weekend.

So my wife and I go to the airport to look at a plane. Now neither of us look reserved. We just look like normal "say whatever you like around us" kind of people. Well the guy who owns the plane is showing us everything about it, and we are with him for about 30 minutes. Nice, well spoken man. Well this is taking longer then expected, so my wife goes and runs some errands, and I say behind and checkout the plane a little more.

As soon as she was gone, every other word out of his mouth was a swear word. Nothing wrong with that, but funny when my wife was around (who would not have cared in the least), he spoke completely different.

Just a generational thing. I don't think it's solvable. But the good news, is I don't think it's a problem your grand kids will have to worry about. I am sure they will have there own problems, but it won't be this one.
 
(a) Buy a Pietenpol, Airbike 2, Bakeng Duce, Breezy, Hatz, Spacewalker, Spezio or Woody Pusher. This allows uber low-cost weekend fun for two.

No such thing in aviation. Even homebuilts need maintenance, and they often have those old engines for which parts are scarce, like my A-65. Then there's the hangarage or tiedown and insurance and annual ELT recerts and so on. And Avgas.

Dan
 
IWC-Big-Pilot-Top-Gun-Watch-perpetual-calendar.jpg


Look at that thing. It nearly covers the width of the guy's wrist. Either he's real skinny, or that watch is two and a half inches across.

Dan
 
The other picture would probably prove a widely-held theory.

IWC-Big-Pilot-Top-Gun-Watch-perpetual-calendar.jpg


Look at that thing. It nearly covers the width of the guy's wrist. Either he's real skinny, or that watch is two and a half inches across.

Dan
 
I think if you are female you are going to get some strange comments that guys don't get but it's mostly because people are surprised and don't know quite how to react.

Bingo! Pilots represent a tiny, nearly insignificant portion of the population -- and women represent just 6% of this small group. Women pilots are just exceedingly rare.

My wife is a pilot, and has often run into disrespectful treatment at FBOs, whether it's the line guys ignoring her and talking to me (even though she's in the left seat) or inside, checking out a courtesy car. After all these years she just laughs and either lets me handle it (I always tell everyone that she's a pilot; sometimes I think I'm prouder of her than she is), or, if she's feeling feisty, she'll set the guy straight.

What's funny/sad is that the worst offenders are often the women attendants at big-city FBOs. They look right past Mary, every time.

If you're a woman pilot, you've got to be willing to live with this sort of thing. It ain't right -- it just IS.

Sent from my Nexus 7
 
This weekend is a perfect example of what I'm talking about WRT pilot demographics. We are playing host to the Cessna 180/185 group, and they have booked a goodly portion of the hotel.

Great folks, awesome planes (see our Facebook page for pix), seem to be having fun -- but every one of them are old enough to be my parents. I'm 54 years old, for FSM's sake!

Where are the young people? Or even the middle aged people?

Sent from my Nexus 7
 
And I assume the check is in the mail to the club-member who referred the president of the group to your joint?

This weekend is a perfect example of what I'm talking about WRT pilot demographics. We are playing host to the Cessna 180/185 group, and they have booked a goodly portion of the hotel.

Great folks, awesome planes (see our Facebook page for pix), seem to be having fun -- but every one of them are old enough to be my parents. I'm 54 years old, for FSM's sake!

Where are the young people? Or even the middle aged people?

Sent from my Nexus 7
 
This weekend is a perfect example of what I'm talking about WRT pilot demographics. We are playing host to the Cessna 180/185 group, and they have booked a goodly portion of the hotel.

Great folks, awesome planes (see our Facebook page for pix), seem to be having fun -- but every one of them are old enough to be my parents. I'm 54 years old, for FSM's sake!

Where are the young people? Or even the middle aged people?

Sent from my Nexus 7

Again, money. Far more people in there 40's have enough discretionary income to drop 10K to learn how to fly, then your average 27 year old.
 
Again, money. Far more people in there 40's have enough discretionary income to drop 10K to learn how to fly, then your average 27 year old.

Meh. 27 year olds maybe not, but college kids working the loan angle have plenty of money to fly. If they wanted to.
 
As soon as she was gone, every other word out of his mouth was a swear word. Nothing wrong with that, but funny when my wife was around (who would not have cared in the least), he spoke completely different.

Back when I was young, we (males) respected women and controlled our language out of respect. That was all there was to it. Maybe it is a generational thing :).
 
These demographics mirror almost exactly my observations at AOPA Summit. Very few women, many of the ones I did notice were wearing either Exhibitor or AOPA Staff badges. Maybe a few more 'younger' people, but not many.
 
Has anybody checked the demographics of the people riding around the country in big-buck motor homes? How many sub-40's are in that group?
 
Where are the young people? Or even the middle aged people?
Older people have more time. They're probably retired and don't have as many family responsibilities. The same goes for the very young, some of whom are sponsored by their parents.
 
Has anybody checked the demographics of the people riding around the country in big-buck motor homes? How many sub-40's are in that group?

The question is will the newly old start flying? Im sure the newly old will still buy RVs, flying probably not.
 
from the recent comments I read, I think there is a glass ceiling for women pilots. not surprising - that's how it was with everything in society-- I'm sure there were similar reactions the day women started voting, started serving more in combat, etc. it's kind of like if the exclusive resort you're a long time member of just changed their policy and let the general public in - how would you feel? not talking a specific relation just the feeling some may have.

well, here's what I'm doing to promote aviation - started an 'aviation club' on my base to just sit around and answer questions, discuss current topics, and more. also, still working on the tv show thing. got a second meeting with the producer. oh and I do a bit to promote CAP in my area.
 
But the underlying reason that people do what they do always comes back to the same why-does-a-dog-lick-his-nuts equation.

The question is will the newly old start flying? Im sure the newly old will still buy RVs, flying probably not.
 
Has anybody checked the demographics of the people riding around the country in big-buck motor homes? How many sub-40's are in that group?

Well, that's a who different activity -- one that requires that most precious of commodities: Time.

Only people who aren't working for a living have time for the RV life. I've got one, and have used it just twice -- for a total of four days -- in the last three years. :nonod:
 
I hang out at the airport roughy 200 days per year. Are you thinking that's an out-of-body experience?

Well, that's a who different activity -- one that requires that most precious of commodities: Time.

Only people who aren't working for a living have time for the RV life. I've got one, and have used it just twice -- for a total of four days -- in the last three years. :nonod:
 
Meh. 27 year olds maybe not, but college kids working the loan angle have plenty of money to fly. If they wanted to.

Yep...I paid cash for my college. My student loans funded all my flying and ratings!
 
Meh. 27 year olds maybe not, but college kids working the loan angle have plenty of money to fly. If they wanted to.

Yeah, those types are at Embry Riddle and UND. I paid out of pocket for my Part 61 flight training. No loans.

I think if you have to take out a loan to do your flight training to be a basically a recreational pilot, then you are buying into something you cannot afford.
 
Yeah, those types are at Embry Riddle and UND. I paid out of pocket for my Part 61 flight training. No loans.

I think if you have to take out a loan to do your flight training to be a basically a recreational pilot, then you are buying into something you cannot afford.

Yet the other entertainment option is to finance a bike, jetski, ATV, or snowmobile all of which is in the PP $ ballpark. Real problem is doing several on crap wages and the post license cost of flying.
 
Back when I was young, we (males) respected women and controlled our language out of respect. That was all there was to it. Maybe it is a generational thing :).

Yea, this is what I mean by generational.

Today, not treating a woman any different, is respecting her. Thinking of her as something that one should act differently around, is frowned upon.

Not saying one way is better then the other, just the difference in generations.
 
Yet the other entertainment option is to finance a bike, jetski, ATV, or snowmobile all of which is in the PP $ ballpark. Real problem is doing several on crap wages and the post license cost of flying.

I can rent a any one of those (and often do), with no training at all. My share in an airplane is less then most of my friends boats.

The cost of doing it is not that much different in my opinion. It's the cost to get started. No one has to drop 10K just for the privilege of operating a bike, jetski, ATV, or snowmobile.

Aside from riding a bike on the road, none of those cost anything at all.
 
My wife and I have motorcycle training schools in Florida and Texas where people take the course for their endorsement.
One of the things we notice is the lack of attention the younger people have for a 15 hour course. They text instead of talking, cannot carry a lengthy conversation. ( Thsi is a broad brush but we see it every class)

I think this is "part" of the pie equation as well. But only a part. Young people have instant access to everything from information to the food they cook. They cannot wait 3 minutes at a traffic light. Money aside, my $.02 is they don't have the desire to make the commitment. For the hours it takes to get a sport or private ticket.

I will be interested in your thoughts.

:nono:
 
I don't think it's useful to compare the personalities of generations (young vs. old) or genders (male vs. female). If you take everyone in a certain category you might be able to come up with an average stereotype but there are way too many people who won't fit it.
 
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