DEADbeat dads

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Trimup

Pre-Flight
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So I am at the airport getting ready for a flight and I hear a few guys I know pretty well hammering on an individual we all knew who disappeared while trophy hunting in Siberia. Never one to miss a chance to play the devils advocate I say "Yes he slid off a mountain and got himself killed, widowed the Mrs., broke his company(he was true key man), left his three kids without a father, but at least he died doing what he loved." After the firestorm of responses dies down I calmly point out the times I have seen each and every one of the respondents fly in situations or conditions that are highly suspect. Except for a few lame arguments starting with, "yeah, but", and "but that was different" Things got quiet fast. So the questions remain:

1)If you get yourself killed in an aviation accident thereby depriving your spouse and children of future companionship, encouragement, and income is that better, worse, or same versus say disappearing with an exotic dancer and refusing to provide companionship, encouragement, and income?

2)Even more fundamentally if you have dependents do you forfeit the right to risk your own life on doing what you love?

What say you good sirs?
 
1-If I die, I don't care what my wife does with my money. If I run off with a stripper, I'm going to care how much money my wife takes from me.

2-If my wife tells me to stop hunting and to stop flying, she won't be my wife anymore. You can get creamed by a bus walking across the street. It's life. I won't give up things I like to try to beat Death, but I will take the proper precautions to lower the risk.
 
People die every day in automobile accidents. Once in a blue moon people die in airline accidents. People die in falls in the bathroom. Should I just stay in bed?

BTW, I started flying lessons when my wife found out the utility and suggested I finally learn. Later she suggested I get my instrument rating when we skipped too many flights due to weather.

I refuse to avoid living life in fear of what might happen. I'm a cancer survivor and my wife and I raised two kids. There's nothing left to fear.
 
If your a responsible adult you would have gotten a life insurance policy to provide for your family financial well being not just because of aviation but you could just as easily die in a car accident.
As for running off with a bimbo, that makes you pond scum anyway.
2. No you don't have to give up what you love because you have a family.
 
You wanna be a good man, or be good at being a man? They ain't the same thing.
 
How good looking is the dancer? :nono:


:rofl:



I've raised my kids well, they are adults. I raised them to be adults, not kids.

I have provided well for my wife, but she was single when I met her, and she certainly knew the program she was signing up for. I don't give a **** if I am killed or live to be 110. I will live life to the fullest.

There is a date out there with my name on it. Could be in 10 mins, or 40 years. I'm not wasting 2 seconds worrying about it. Now, where did I leave the tv remote. :rofl:
 
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What we need a blue ribbon panel within a ministry of risk assessment and authority. Beginning at 13, each person will submit specific life-style attributes of their lives and will be assessed a risk index. The panel will be made up of actuarials and intellectuals who know better than the individual or parent what risks are rated at, and what risks are acceptable.

A young person who likes to ski or snowboard will carry a higher risk than kids who like to paint, or study French lit.

Risk activities greater than a persons ability to pay for their behavior will be denied permission to engage in said behavior until they improve their ability to manage and pay for their risk.

Aviation will be graded in the highest risk category, so therefore, only the most wealthy(Gates, Buffet), and most responsible(politicians) will be authorized to engage in private aviation. All other citizens will be required to ride a bus, or trains authorized by the Ministry of Risk assessment and authority.

It's for the children.
 
docmirror said:
Aviation will be graded in the highest risk category, so therefore, only the most wealthy(Gates, Buffet), and most responsible(politicians) will be authorized to engage in private aviation. All other citizens will be required to ride a bus, or trains authorized by the Ministry of Risk assessment and authority.
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No, no, you have that part backward. Individuals like that are far too valuable to risk. Only those too poor to afford to fly will be allowed to do so. If you can afford it, obviously you shouldn't be doing it.

It's for the children.
 
Risk; It's like credit. If you need it, you can't have it. If you have it you don't need it. If you have it and use it, you'll need more of it to fix having used it.

N Korea has a perfect GA safety record. Therefore, we should be like N Korea. :lol:
 
Trimup said:
1)If you get yourself killed in an aviation accident thereby depriving your spouse and children of future companionship, encouragement, and income is that better, worse, or same versus say disappearing with an exotic dancer and refusing to provide companionship, encouragement, and income?
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Yes, because in running off with someone you have failed to provide a good role model, plus you didn't leave your dependents anything to live on. I hope that most of us who have dependents have adequate life insurance.

Trimup said:
2)Even more fundamentally if you have dependents do you forfeit the right to risk your own life on doing what you love?
Click to expand...

You should adjust your risk level, but you can't stop living your life. I quit riding a motorcycle, but took up hang gliding. I was very conservative in my flying choices, though. So keep flying, but make conservative choices, and only fly something you're completely comfortable with.
 
Trimup said:
2)Even more fundamentally if you have dependents do you forfeit the right to risk your own life on doing what you love?
Click to expand...
let's keep some perspective and not get too full of ourselves. Most of us here are driving a spam can from city municipal to hicktown county, involving tasks such as drinking coffee, moving some levers, and talking on the radio. We aren't base jumping or wrestling alligators.
 
docmirror said:
What we need a blue ribbon panel within a ministry of risk assessment and authority. Beginning at 13, each person will submit specific life-style attributes of their lives and will be assessed a risk index. The panel will be made up of actuarials and intellectuals who know better than the individual or parent what risks are rated at, and what risks are acceptable....SNIP...
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That blue ribbon panel is your insurance agents actuary. They've already figured out the risks involved and charge you appropriately.
Life is full of risks. I recently heard of a guy whose car was hit by a flying chunk of ice. Lost his eye, 5 teeth, broken jaw, and broken cheek. Or the 16 year old whose chute didn't open completely on her very first skydive.
I've always carried enough insurance to cover the mortgage payoff and keep the wife in good stead for a couple of years. But that would not have been anything different if I'd not started flying.
As far as running off with a stripper, it's way over rated. If she loved you if you were broke, she'd have to work. Her occupation is stripping. Do you really want other guys (or girls, if that's your thing) looking at her now? And let's be real. Divorce will make you broke, worse than broke if you have kids.
 
I carry enough life insurance for my wife and 3 daughters to be ok. The houses would be paid off as we have other insurance on those if either one of us dies. My first wife died 16 years ago, we had no insurance, nothing. I was broke but kept moving forward. I will not let this happen to my family.

If I left with a stripper I don't know how I could ever face my 3 daughters again. Luckily my wife puts up with my hobbies and is a real keeper.
 
I have no kids and no plans to have any at this stage of life. My biggest concern is to be sure there is enough money to provide for my wife when I am gone. The women in her family all live to about 95 and the men in mine do not make it near that far. I have worked hard for years to try and ensure her comfort. Now I am trying to find ,the balance between enjoying my life and ensuring our future is comfortable. Thinking of retiring but I am unfortunately convinced that I will go nuts very quickly if I do. After all you cannot fly every single day, Or can you ????.
 
If its your day, it's your day, nothing you can do will change it. But you can be prepared to have the family taken care of financially. Yes you may not be there to counsel and advise your loved ones, to raise them, but they will know you prepared for their secure future.

Almost 40 yrs flying, 15 of that in managed high risk military flying. I've lost friends to civil and military accidents. I knew an individual that was scheduled to fly but went DNIF for a cold. Driving home the aircraft he was supposed to be on crashed, the debris took out his car on the road parralle to the runway. It was his day, not flying did not change it.

Another friend on the same road forgot something at home and turned around, he saw the accident in his rear view mirror. If he had not turned around he would have been where the first car was. It was not his day.

Live for today, manage the risk, get the training and maintain proficiency. When the proficiency goes down, adjust your personal minimums and get more training or practice. Make sure your paperwork, wills, trusts, insurance etc is in order for your family.
 
Everything has been paid for before I started my PPL at 38. We know the risk. We fly an experimental together most of the time. I am not and will not be IFR rated. I also ride a Harley and work with high voltage daily. They are educated or are getting there fast and would be fine. I have taught them how to do most things around the house. I know I can be replaced just like all of you.
 
silver-eagle said:
That blue ribbon panel is your insurance agents actuary. They've already figured out the risks involved and charge you appropriately.
Click to expand...

Sometimes I wonder about insurance actuaries. Both times that I've applied for life insurance, they took some blood, a medical history, and asked me about my activities. They wanted to know if I did rock climbing, any form of motor racing or aviation, or scuba diving. But for some reason they didn't care that I was riding a motorcycle in city traffic on a daily basis. That's clearly the most dangerous thing I've done.
 
Women have been widowed since the beginning of time, they are hardwired to survive. Heck she probably has your replacement picked out already. If she is post pretty, she should have addult children to take care of her. Modern women have slacking on the last part.
 
"If its your day, it's your day, nothing you can do will change it."

Well, you don't need to seek it and tempt fate.
 
FormerHangie said:
They wanted to know if I did rock climbing, any form of motor racing or aviation

But for some reason they didn't care that I was riding a motorcycle in city traffic on a daily basis. That's clearly the most dangerous thing I've done.
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Yeah, I'm grandfathered in on my life insurance for aviation, but they didn't even ask about the motorcycle. I know for a fact I'm much more likely to be done in riding in commuter traffic than I am in the air.
 
Vaflier said:
Thinking of retiring but I am unfortunately convinced that I will go nuts very quickly if I do. After all you cannot fly every single day, Or can you ????.
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I think you're nuts already. Retired? Ride bicycles, motorcycles, go running, go fishing, go hang gliding, go to the lake, go for a walk. If my health holds I'll have no problems finding things to do.
 
1. We're all going to die at some point, for some reason, regardless of what we do, how safe we are, or how good of health we're in.

2. If you leave your wife, it's senseless to run off with the stripper. She's a stripper. She does this stuff for a living. Just pay her for some off hours activities once or twice a week or however often you need to have off hours activities and be done with it. You ran away from your wife for a reason, you don't need another one.
 
Trimup said:
So I am at the airport getting ready for a flight and I hear a few guys I know pretty well hammering on an individual we all knew who disappeared while trophy hunting in Siberia. Never one to miss a chance to play the devils advocate I say "Yes he slid off a mountain and got himself killed, widowed the Mrs., broke his company(he was true key man), left his three kids without a father, but at least he died doing what he loved." After the firestorm of responses dies down I calmly point out the times I have seen each and every one of the respondents fly in situations or conditions that are highly suspect. Except for a few lame arguments starting with, "yeah, but", and "but that was different" Things got quiet fast. So the questions remain:

1)If you get yourself killed in an aviation accident thereby depriving your spouse and children of future companionship, encouragement, and income is that better, worse, or same versus say disappearing with an exotic dancer and refusing to provide companionship, encouragement, and income?

2)Even more fundamentally if you have dependents do you forfeit the right to risk your own life on doing what you love?

What say you good sirs?
Click to expand...


1) Insurance protects against the financial loss - nothing protects against the emotional loss. Worse would be running off with a stripper: a) it won't be long until she runs off with someone else, b) your ex-wife's lawyer will make sure you get halved, c) I'd have to live with the knowledge that I walked away from a commitment I made to take care of my family.

2) No. All we do in life is a risk. A lot of things we don't have control over, anyway. When my appendix ruptured when my wife was 7 months pregnant with our first, I had no control over that. I do have control over my own activities, and do what I can to minimize the risk. Then I have to balance the whole risk/reward calculation. Flying is a calculated risk on my part, and I do what I can to minimize that risk. Driving to work and putting myself in a situation where someone can cross the centerline and take me out is something else I have to consider each time I get behind the wheel.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Women have been widowed since the beginning of time, they are hardwired to survive. Heck she probably has your replacement picked out already. If she is post pretty, she should have addult children to take care of her. Modern women have slacking on the last part.
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A few of the recent tv shows addressed this theme. Wife had a safety deposit box and personal bank accounts her husband didn't know about. They are loaded with cash, life insurance policy, and other personal family papers. She, of course, dies first, and he's left with questions about why all this stuff was there and what her intent really was.
I have no doubt a wife will survive. The odds are better than equal it will be the husband that goes first. You plan for the worst and hope for the best. Make sure the wills are done, there's money in the bank, you have some insurance to keep stuff going (for both of you), and live life like nothing is wrong. Either that, or shelter yourself in the house and do nothing. The end will come eventually. The question is do you enjoy what life you have or die full of regrets for what you didn't try but wanted to.
 
These topics are always interesting when they come up, since every answer is different for every person.

In my case, I make sure that my family will survive if anything happens to me. That's taken care of, so they're good. So the next question is what risk do I allow having a child who I want to see grow up probably more than he cares if I'm around.

I did stop riding my motorcycle to work because I don't like the roads and traffic patterns around here. We'll ride more in the future, just not today.

I still fly, and my flying missions haven't changed really. I am a bit more conservative about weather and also I have more experience and am smarter about it. I've been flying the same capability of airplanes for 1500 hours or more, so I've had plenty of experience there. Always learning. What's funny is a friend at work thought I was crazy for accepting a ferry flight on a classic 310 that ended up with me having to cage an engine. Meanwhile, he was in the army, fighting in the middle east. Well, nobody shot at me.

I do make more efforts to improve safety in my flying. I went to SimCom voluntarily and will likely do so again, or at least work on some sort of training regiment.

I was raised by a single mother. My father is still alive, but I didn't talk to him until I was around a teenager, didn't meet him until I was 21. We're friends but I'll never call him my dad and he'll never call me his son. I had a lot of resentment for years because of his choice to not be part of my life (which was a choice), and I think that while I would have been sad had he died and not been able to be around, that would have been easier to deal with than knowing he was alive and uninterested.

I also don't want the example to my son to be to fear the world and discover when he came to die that he had not lived, but rather to make calculated risks to balance living and enjoyment out of life without taking overly risky chances.
 
An aside my dad quit flying when my older brother was born. Obviously his loss would have sucked, but as a kid I always thought it lame that he quit. As an adult I keep his certificate framed on the wall as a reminder not to be lame. Was more conservative when the kid was younger, but once they are old enough to remember you, it is time to go full speed ahead again.
 
Jim and his new bride, Amy, came home after their honeymoon.

Amy said "now that we're married, I think it's time for you to stop flying and sell your plane."

Jim got a horrified look on his face and said "oh my God, for a minute there, you sounded just like my ex-wife."

Amy said "I DIDN'T KNOW YOU WERE MARRIED BEFORE!"

Jim said "I wasn't."
 
docmirror said:
What we need a blue ribbon panel within a ministry of risk assessment and authority. Beginning at 13, each person will submit specific life-style attributes of their lives and will be assessed a risk index. The panel will be made up of actuarials and intellectuals who know better than the individual or parent what risks are rated at, and what risks are acceptable.

A young person who likes to ski or snowboard will carry a higher risk than kids who like to paint, or study French lit.

Risk activities greater than a persons ability to pay for their behavior will be denied permission to engage in said behavior until they improve their ability to manage and pay for their risk.

Aviation will be graded in the highest risk category, so therefore, only the most wealthy(Gates, Buffet), and most responsible(politicians) will be authorized to engage in private aviation. All other citizens will be required to ride a bus, or trains authorized by the Ministry of Risk assessment and authority.

It's for the children.
Click to expand...

If I had to study French lit I'd put a bullet in my brain. Does that affect the actuarially computed life expectancy?
 
If you're rich enough to fly and you leave your family with no will, Trust , or insurance, you're just a selfish or ignorant dumbass imo.

I have an ILIT (irrevocable life insurance Trust) that will pay $1MM into that Trust outside my estate if I'm killed or die prematurely.

A good money manager can have strippers, wives, girlfriends, planes, trains, and automobiles all at the same time.
 
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