Damage from Gust Lock Not Being Removed

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Yesterday at the FBO I rent from, their only Cessna 172 was flown by a renter with the rudder gust lock still attached. The aircraft was up for just over an hour and made several take-offs and landings.

I was scheduled to fly the plane next, but cancelled because I was unsure if the rudder or linkages could have been damaged.

Should the plane have been looked over by an A&P before being offered to a renter?
 
I may not play in this world, meaning I fly a little eab. But if I was renting an airplane and this happened to the airplane I wanted to fly, 1. I would expect this to be reported to the FBO. 2. I would expect that this airplane would go straight into the shop before the next flight.

I understand one looks over the logs on an airplane before they fly it, but what good is this if something like this was not logged or reported?

Its only a rudder right? That is a sarcastic remark, but that airplane would HAVE to be inspected before my butt would fly it.

Just me for whatever that is worth.

Tony
 
Obviously whoever was flying was not big on using the rudder. How do you taxi without noticing?

Either there is a bunch of slack between the pedals and the rudder which you can spot by looking out the door while wig-wagging the pedals or there is not.
 
Why do people use external gust locks vs column locks?

Seems like it is not worth the risk. I suppose most have seen the video if the guy that forgot to remove it from the elevator. That was terrible.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Why do people use external gust locks vs column locks?

Seems like it is not worth the risk. I suppose most have seen the video if the guy that forgot to remove it from the elevator. That was terrible.
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A column lock won't lock the rudder unless you have an aftermarket system. If one lives in a windy area, it makes sense to have some sort of rudder lock. There are internal solutions but an external lock is easiest.
 
And rudders aren't the only things which may be externally gust locked:
plane005.jpg


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Note that using the seat belt method generally results in full deflection of the control surface, and with the bit of stretch in the belt and control cables, gusting winds can still be banging the control surface against its stops, making one of these type devices a good idea to protect the control system.
 
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A) I've never seen a rudder gust lock that was very effective. Most provide easy rudder movement but may limit range a little.

B) I wouldn't be concerned unless there was evidence of sheet metal damage. If I couldn't see damage? I wouldn't have hesitated to fly it.

C) in my experience a 172 isn't very rudder dependent. Given that the lock probably didn't have a positive fix on the rudder the previous pilot probably never noticed.

D) Why external locks? With an internal lock you're jamming the yoke. Any wind forces are transmitted to the control surfaces and through the control cables. Nothing will stress cables, bellcranks, and pulleys worse than that. I use an internal yoke lock for casual days but remove that and use external aileron/flap locks for windy days. I don't lock elevator or rudder externally because there isn't a good way to do it and there's little reason to lock them. Wind may deflect them but it won't bounce them around. In fact I've never used a rudder lock.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Why do people use external gust locks vs column locks?

Seems like it is not worth the risk. I suppose most have seen the video if the guy that forgot to remove it from the elevator. That was terrible.
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Because there are springs and bungies in many of these systems that if you lock the column, you will still have motion in the control surface.
 
These are common in Alaska with Cessna and Cub owners. They lock the ailerons to the flaps. Best on a Cessna since those flaps are locked when retracted. A Cub's flaps will deflect easily with any breeze on the tail so these are mostly to protect the flaps when on a Cub. Actually you're supposed to pull full flaps on a Cub to park it so the flaps don't bounce. Since a Cub will easily fly at 30mph with flaps out nobody does it. External locks are a better solution. Parking nose to the wind is better yet.

Every pilot should make sure controls are free and correct before every flight.
 

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I'm not big on those 'clamp on' gust locks. At times I will snug up the control yoke with a bungee cord system. It would be impossible not to see it while getting ready to fly.
 
Stewartb said:
I wouldn't be concerned unless there was evidence of sheet metal damage. If I couldn't see damage? I wouldn't have hesitated to fly it.
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I'm sure that's true for you and most other highly experienced pilots, but a Student or other low-experience pilot might feel the need for a more expert view, and no FBO should discourage that.
 
roncachamp said:
This was a rudder gust lock on a Cessna 172. The ubiquitous Cessna control yoke lock does not affect the rudder.
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...which is why some Cessna owners get a gadget like this:
yorkgustlok.jpg


...or this:

13-13075d.jpg

...which locks both yoke and rudder pedals from the inside where it cannot be missed on preflight.
 
Ron Levy said:
...which is why some Cessna owners get a gadget like this:
yorkgustlok.jpg


...or this:

13-13075d.jpg

...which locks both yoke and rudder pedals from the inside where it cannot be missed on preflight.
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With that rig, your aircraft is now subject to the wind banging the flight controls and damaging all the linkage between the flight control and the yoke/rudder pedals.

Use what ya got, sumptin is better than nuttin.
 
Stewartb said:
...Every pilot should make sure controls are free and correct before every flight.
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This is what surprised me. How could you proceed and even attempt to take off and not notice that they weren't, if you did a proper control check?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Why do people use external gust locks vs column locks?

Seems like it is not worth the risk. I suppose most have seen the video if the guy that forgot to remove it from the elevator. That was terrible.
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Talking about the Caribou, I think it was, that took off and came right back down? That was a massive plane, if it's the same one I'm thinking of. Still amazes me how one could not notice that if they did a proper control check.
 
TheTraveler said:
This is what surprised me. How could you proceed and even attempt to take off and not notice that they weren't, if you did a proper control check?
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Most people don't look at the rudder as they have no view of the rudder from the pilot's seat, as long as the pedals hit the stops, it's all good. Most planes you can do that just fine with the rudder secured centerline. I used to have a picture of an instructor and student taxiing in after a lesson with the 152's rudder lock still clamped firmly in place. Neither of them noticed. No excuse to not watch the rudder wag the check on a 152 either.
 
Looks like the pilot ,didn't do a walk around,or a pre takeoff check? Controls free and responsive. Wonder what else he did in his hour flight.
 
frfly172 said:
Looks like the pilot ,didn't do a walk around,or a pre takeoff check? Controls free and responsive. Wonder what else he did in his hour flight.
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That is a problem with cold weather, we tend to abbreviate our exposure.
 
Henning said:
Most people don't look at the rudder as they have no view of the rudder from the pilot's seat, as long as the pedals hit the stops, it's all good. Most planes you can do that just fine with the rudder secured centerline. I used to have a picture of an instructor and student taxiing in after a lesson with the 152's rudder lock still clamped firmly in place. Neither of them noticed. No excuse to not watch the rudder wag the check on a 152 either.
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It sounds odd to me that the rudder would feel "free and clear" while clamped down. Not saying people are wrong here or making stuff up, just that it's hard to believe that it would feel free and clear with a lock on it.
 
TheTraveler said:
It sounds odd to me that the rudder would feel "free and clear" while clamped down. Not saying people are wrong here or making stuff up, just that it's hard to believe that it would feel free and clear with a lock on it.
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There are springs and bungies involved in many control systems. I doubt the feel was correct, and had the CFI done the pedal check, he may have noticed, but the student obviously did not.
 
Ron Levy said:
It wouldn't on any light plane I've ever flown, but I've never flown a Champ, so...
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There are no cables running directly to the tailwheel. They run to the rudder itself and the tailwheel is steered by a combination of springs and chains attached to the rudder, IIRC, so to get the plane into the air, one would have had to ignore the fact that the rudder pedals couldn't move and the fact that it was incredibly difficult to taxi.

But that doesn't apply to a Cessna.
 
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I just don't understand why tailwheel pilots seem so focused on the footrests.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
But that doesn't apply to a Cessna.
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I know you can move the rudder on a 100/200-series Cessna nosewheel single without the nosewheel moving, but I don't think the reverse is true. That's a direct cable connection to the horns on the rudder. I'd have to review the book before agreeing that you wouldn't feel the rudder blocked when trying to move the rudder pedals on the ground.
 
Doesn't setting the ratchet style parking brake on Cessna's essentially lock the rudder? :dunno:

I use a pin in the yoke with a 'remove before flight' streamer, and set the brakes.
 
Ron Levy said:
I know you can move the rudder on a 100/200-series Cessna nosewheel single without the nosewheel moving, but I don't think the reverse is true.
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Well, I wasn't addressing a Cessna, only the Aeronca. But IIRC the nosewheel steering on a Cessna is sort of the same thing only in reverse. So you can move the airplane on the ground with a tow bar with the rudder "locked" and even taxi with it. But I am sure it wouldn't taxi "normally" with the a rudder lock installed. You would be surprised at how much aerodynamic help you get from the rudder when taxiing.

Don't ask me how I know.

That's a direct cable connection to the horns on the rudder. I'd have to review the book before agreeing that you wouldn't feel the rudder blocked when trying to move the rudder pedals on the ground.
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That is true. I didn't intend to imply otherwise.
 
Tom-D said:
With that rig, your aircraft is now subject to the wind banging the flight controls and damaging all the linkage between the flight control and the yoke/rudder pedals.

Use what ya got, sumptin is better than nuttin.
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But the pilot of a c130 managed to do just that with interior gust lock. Killed himself and crew. CIA , if I remember correctly. Somebody will know. Others have happened more recently. This fellow flew almost straight up, banked, then straight down.
 
txflyer said:
Doesn't setting the ratchet style parking brake on Cessna's essentially lock the rudder? :dunno:

I use a pin in the yoke with a 'remove before flight' streamer, and set the brakes.
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No, it works on the master cylinder end of the linkage, so the pedals can still flop the steering linkage with the brake pulled.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Well, I wasn't addressing a Cessna, only the Aeronca. But IIRC the nosewheel steering on a Cessna is sort of the same thing only in reverse. So you can move the airplane on the ground with a tow bar with the rudder "locked" and even taxi with it. But I am sure it wouldn't taxi "normally" with the a rudder lock installed. You would be surprised at how much aerodynamic help you get from the rudder when taxiing.

Don't ask me how I know.



That is true. I didn't intend to imply otherwise.
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Me too! I don't see how one would miss a rudder lock or elevator or wing lock if they were trained correctly. I use the rudder a lot while taxiing and always move the ailerons ALOT to full stops. Trained that way years ago! ( tail draggers especially!)
 
Here's an aftermath pic from a big windstorm we had at lake Hood in 2003. Both the planes in the first picture had effective rudder locks installed. Didn't help. But they demonstrate what's wrong with rudder locks. Trying to control a big surface's deflection with a small device. That's hard on the rudder and the fin. I prefer to leave mine free. Rudders do not bang back and forth in the wind. In a gust big enough to topple a plane those 1x3s will do more damage than good.
 

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1600vw said:
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I understand one looks over the logs on an airplane before they fly it, but what good is this if something like this was not logged or reported?
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I also would have thought this would have been reported and looked at, I'd image you'd at least have some slightly tweaked sheet metal.

I don't know any FBOs that leave the logs around to be looked at before every flight, are you talking about a short term due list / flight / snag sheet?


As for external gust locks, DUMB idea at a flight school, for just this reason. Also a rudder lock isn't really needed on most cessnas, the rudder has the bungies on it and doesn't slap around like the ailerons or elevator will, especially if you park it into the wind, or even in a semi sheltered area.

Companies I worked for never used them on 206/208B or PC12, never had a issue.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Where does "Free and Clear" come from? Clear from what? I always learned free and CORRECT.
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Ah, pay no attention to that. This stupid last update is playing hell with my autocorrect. It is free and clear. Clear. CLEAR. Dammit!

C-O-R-R-E-C-T

And there we go...
 
Ron Levy said:
I know you can move the rudder on a 100/200-series Cessna nosewheel single without the nosewheel moving, but I don't think the reverse is true. That's a direct cable connection to the horns on the rudder. I'd have to review the book before agreeing that you wouldn't feel the rudder blocked when trying to move the rudder pedals on the ground.
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On a cardinal 68/A/B, if the rudder is blocked and you stand on the pedal something is gonna break. The bungee is in the link between the pedals and the nose wheel and not the pedals and rudder.
Pretty sure that sums it up for all Cessna NWS bungees in the 100/200 series.

(yes some have a weak bungee between aileron and rudder too)

IRRC on a C150 you set the neutral distance of the pedals from the firewall by lengthening or shortening the rudder cables. There is also a weak spring on both rudder cables to keep a bit of tension on them when no feet are holding pressure on the pedals.
 
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