Customs trouble

P

Pilot Observer

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It truly is a friend of mine, but I was there...

Did a trip to an island with a friend in his airplane. Return trip departed prior to customs opening and my friend called but no one answered and there was no way to leave a message. Upon arrival, just after they opened, customs agent reamed him out. He was quite apologetic and pleaded his case, but the customs guy was not giving an inch.

So, my friend has received his email saying he violated the call first rule and has a few days to send a contrite reply.

Any suggestions on how to word it so hopefully he gets a "No harm,no foul, don't do that again" resolution. He really doesn't want to pay a $5k fine.
 
There is really no case the plead. The regulations are clear that you must have permission to land at your US destination prior to departure. There aren't exceptions for no one answered or CBP was closed.

I would suggest admitting to not understanding that requirement, say sorry and that he's learned from the incident. No idea if they're lenient on first time offenders.
 
Then why did he willfully not follow the regulations?

He made the choice, correct? He ought to have his cert. revoked.
Lol, that seems a little extreme. Maybe he truly believed the notify CBP before departure was like pattern entries, a recommended procedure, and that he could just call when he arrived. I'm assuming he filed his flight plan, eAPIS, etc., etc. and wasn't intentionally trying to subvert border control.
 
So the guy yelled at him and still allowed him into the country?

I haven’t done this GA wise, I thought you could just email customs the form, I called and asked for instructions before and even wrote down notes and they seemed so “not serious” about it, almost like why are you calling, until you mess something up then they go postal on you.

Idk if I was a government employee, I’d probably remember that I’m supposed to provide a service and say hey next time do this and that. You could have reached my 10 years ago version of myself aka Mr Power Trip who would have caused you to sweat a few.
 
It truly is a friend of mine, but I was there...

Did a trip to an island with a friend in his airplane. Return trip departed prior to customs opening and my friend called but no one answered and there was no way to leave a message. Upon arrival, just after they opened, customs agent reamed him out. He was quite apologetic and pleaded his case, but the customs guy was not giving an inch.

So, my friend has received his email saying he violated the call first rule and has a few days to send a contrite reply.

Any suggestions on how to word it so hopefully he gets a "No harm,no foul, don't do that again" resolution. He really doesn't want to pay a $5k fine.
I used to fly international often pre 911. It’s more effort than it’s worth today.
 
I just can't fathom just crossing the border without notifying customs. I will hold my real thoughts on this as I would violate the RoC.

So the guy got ''reamed out'', so what.?? The customs agent could have arrested everyone. And good for the agent for not giving an inch. How was he supposed to know there was not something like a dirty bomb on the airplane.?? Crossing the border illegally is no joking matter. I feel the agent was very lenient.

I suggest claiming to be a stupid Karen American, then accept punishment accordingly, and consider yourselves lucky.

I once spent the night on the Canada side in my truck waiting for the border to open to get back into the US. Never even considered just driving through without clearing customs because I arrived outside of business hours. And it was not in the summer.

2 pilots, no brains. :frown2:
 
No one can be harder on pilots than other pilots. Reminds me of the story about "5 monkeys" experiment.

I once spent the night on the Canada side in my truck waiting for the border to open to get back into the US. Never even considered just driving through without clearing customs because I arrived outside of business hours. And it was not in the summer.
I'm sorry you spent a cold night in your truck once, but you seem to have lived to tell the tale (Ken to one's Karen?). According to the OP, customs (i.e., "the border") was open for business when he arrived, just not when he previously departed.

"If I'd known you were coming, I'd have baked a cake, baked a cake, baked a cake..."
 
I just can't fathom just crossing the border without notifying customs. I will hold my real thoughts on this as I would violate the RoC.

So the guy got ''reamed out'', so what.?? The customs agent could have arrested everyone. And good for the agent for not giving an inch. How was he supposed to know there was not something like a dirty bomb on the airplane.?? Crossing the border illegally is no joking matter. I feel the agent was very lenient.

I suggest claiming to be a stupid Karen American, then accept punishment accordingly, and consider yourselves lucky.

I once spent the night on the Canada side in my truck waiting for the border to open to get back into the US. Never even considered just driving through without clearing customs because I arrived outside of business hours. And it was not in the summer.

2 pilots, no brains. :frown2:
How does a phone call prevent a dirty bomb?

It wasn't like he tried to skip customs, he just skipped the pre-customs phone call before customs.

Granted it was still a stupid mistake, but the response should be equal to the mistake.
 
I once submitted an EAPIS with an incorrect birthdate for one of my passengers. I immediately submitted a subsequent eapis with the correct date. I called, CBP agent didn’t seem bothered by my error and confirmed they got the corrected EAPIS, I crossed the border, and all was good.

A couple weeks later I got a call from some DHS guy yelling at me (literally!) that I submitted erroneous information, said the moment I submitted it I was in violation, regardless of resubmitting. Threatened me with a $5,000 fine but basically told me he was doing a big favor letting me off with a warning.

While the OP’s (friend’s) situation and mine differed based on the details, in both cases the pilot made an honest mistake. I suspect a response admitting that it was an honest misunderstanding of the rules will result in a warning and $0 fine.

I might suggest including telephone records from your cell phone proving an attempt was made to make the call. I’d have a hard time believing their enforcement attorneys would try to pursue a first-time violation where there is evidence a good faith attempt to comply with the rules was made.
 
I might suggest including telephone records from your cell phone proving an attempt was made to make the call. I’d have a hard time believing their enforcement attorneys would try to pursue a first-time violation where there is evidence a good faith attempt to comply with the rules was made.
This right here is probably the best tidbit from this thread so far. Neither of us thought about that.


For the record, EAPIS was filed. It even had the correct birth dates!! Airplane had a customs sticker. The only thing that was missing was actually talking to a human.

Based on a few of the other responses, I'll go see if I can find someone to snip my friend's gonads. He's already had kids, so he doesn't really need them anymore.
 
I was always made to believe that not calling ahead is really bad so not sure what advice I would have other than state the facts, apologize and hope for the best. So far (knocking on wood) the U.S. (and for the most part Canadian) customs officers were very reasonable with me. Granted, I never did not call. But, I have arrived long after the arrival window on both sides of the border and no one ever said anything about it. Upon arrival, I apologized and stated the reason for being late (weather in each of the cases) and their standard response was "all good, safety first". So, while the rules are what the rules are, officers (and whoever is going to review your friend's case) have leeway in regards to enforcing them.
 
So far (knocking on wood) the U.S. (and for the most part Canadian) customs officers were very reasonable with me.

Yeah, but you're Canadian. The US Customs folks are very cooperative, helpful, and lenient for foreigners who want to enter the US. It's US citizens who go through the wringer.
;)
 
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Yeah, but you're Canadian. The US Customs folks are very cooperative, helpful, and lenient for foreigners who want to enter the US. It's US citizens who go through the ringer.
;)
I filed a flight plan and EAPIS from Dawson City, Yukon, to Fairbanks, Alaska, then ran into bad weather after crossing the border. I decided to divert to Northway, AK (airport of entry) but a thunderstorm right over the area prevented me from landing there, so I diverted back into Canada and landed at Beaver Creek. I called customs in Fairbanks to let them know the situation, set up to camp on the field for the night, then got a call from my daughter in Boston telling me that she was notified by Fairbanks CBP that my plane was missing but that a search was underway. I called my daughter to assure her that we were fine, then called Fairbanks customs to let them know. They chalked it off as "no big deal" and explained that those things just happen sometimes . . .

(More details about the trip . . . )
 
I used to fly international often pre 911. It’s more effort than it’s worth today.
I share that sentiment. I did my bucket list trip in '21 (wasnt even meant to be intl, just didnt have the range for domestic non stop), but never again. It was an unenjoyable pita, the dhs deekdance. CBP field ops is a clownshow of power trippy fogs.

The differential treatment of non revenue piston arrivals compared to every other conveyance at the port of entry (to include by foot) also doesn't sit well with me. What's ultimately unfortunate is that said dynamic is one of the few that are actually NOT the fault of the otherwise sclerotic, anti-recreational FAA. Still counts against the conveyance as an enjoyable option to near-international travel.
 
I'm new to this topic.
I find that there is a distinct difference between making a phone call vs must have permission.
Does anyone have a link to the rules for this? I'd like to read what the instructions say.
Thanks.
 
So the guy yelled at him and still allowed him into the country?

I haven’t done this GA wise, I thought you could just email customs the form, I called and asked for instructions before and even wrote down notes and they seemed so “not serious” about it, almost like why are you calling, until you mess something up then they go postal on you.

Idk if I was a government employee, I’d probably remember that I’m supposed to provide a service and say hey next time do this and that. You could have reached my 10 years ago version of myself aka Mr Power Trip who would have caused you to sweat a few.
They must allow a US citizen into the country. They can penalize (or try to), but they cannot deny entry for citizens.
 
I'm new to this topic.
I find that there is a distinct difference between making a phone call vs must have permission.
Does anyone have a link to the rules for this? I'd like to read what the instructions say.
Thanks.

For arrivals to the United States, after the transmission of the APIS manifest, pilots of GA aircraft must secure CBP permission to land through direct communication with the CBP port of arrival prior to departure from the foreign port or place.

 
So let me get this straight.... you have to call US customs before takeoff while you are in a foreign land....even after you've submitted paperwork online. OK, got it.

Is it even conceivable that there may be no cell coverage at the airport of departure and no available landline?
No doubt South Bimini is no longer this way, but the last time I was there (not flying myself GA) I was on a SCUBA trip. This was a long time ago, in the days before everyone had a cell phone. There was not even a telephone on South Bimini where we were staying...and where the airport was.
It's likely not that way now on Bimini, but I'd imagine there are still some places in the Bahamas where there's a little airstrip that may be off the grid.

Possible to talk with anyone in the air, to meet this requirement?
 
So let me get this straight.... you have to call US customs before takeoff while you are in a foreign land....even after you've submitted paperwork online. OK, got it.

Is it even conceivable that there may be no cell coverage at the airport of departure and no available landline?
No doubt South Bimini is no longer this way, but the last time I was there (not flying myself GA) I was on a SCUBA trip. This was a long time ago, in the days before everyone had a cell phone. There was not even a telephone on South Bimini where we were staying...and where the airport was.
It's likely not that way now on Bimini, but I'd imagine there are still some places in the Bahamas where there's a little airstrip that may be off the grid.

Possible to talk with anyone in the air, to meet this requirement?

I don't know the exit requirements of the Bahamas but don't you have to depart the Bahamas from certain airports? I could be wrong, never went there and too lazy to do research about something that I won't be doing for a while anyways. FYI, the requirement to call ahead is the same for Canada. You have to call Canadian customs prior to departure from the U.S. and let them know when and where you'll be arriving.
 
I don't know the exit requirements of the Bahamas but don't you have to depart the Bahamas from certain airports? I could be wrong, never went there and too lazy to do research about something that I won't be doing for a while anyways. FYI, the requirement to call ahead is the same for Canada. You have to call Canadian customs prior to departure from the U.S. and let them know when and where you'll be arriving.

Boy, we could sure have fun calling in people's tail numbers......
 
So let me get this straight.... you have to call US customs before takeoff while you are in a foreign land....even after you've submitted paperwork online. OK, got it.

Is it even conceivable that there may be no cell coverage at the airport of departure and no available landline?
No doubt South Bimini is no longer this way, but the last time I was there (not flying myself GA) I was on a SCUBA trip. This was a long time ago, in the days before everyone had a cell phone. There was not even a telephone on South Bimini where we were staying...and where the airport was.
It's likely not that way now on Bimini, but I'd imagine there are still some places in the Bahamas where there's a little airstrip that may be off the grid.

Possible to talk with anyone in the air, to meet this requirement?
Is there a legal requirement to fly nonstop from wherever you are in the Bahamas to your U.S. port of entry? I would think you could hop over to an airport that had a phone, so you could get a weather briefing, file flight plans, and maybe submit eAPIS.

Of course, if that’s not possible, one couldn’t possibly be expected to plan far enough ahead to know when they’re returning to the U.S. :rolleyes:
 
Is there a legal requirement to fly nonstop from wherever you are in the Bahamas to your U.S. port of entry? I would think you could hop over to an airport that had a phone, so you could get a weather briefing, file flight plans, and maybe submit eAPIS.

Of course, if that’s not possible, one couldn’t possibly be expected to plan far enough ahead to know when they’re returning to the U.S. :rolleyes:

Actually, I just looked it up out of curiosity. You have to depart the Bahamas from an airport of entry that has customs on site. I would assume that they either have cell service or a landline available at those airports anyways. Apparently you can't depart from that little dirt strip in the middle of nowhere in the Bahamas for your international flight back to the U.S. I mean, you can, just not legally.
 
I've spent well over a decade living in Mexico and traveling to the US, mostly during the summer. Neither side is great, but US CBP and Immigration is the worst. The first rule is follow the rules to the letter.

The second rule is that following them to the letter is only a defense, not an assurance that you won't be harassed by men (exclusively men, in my experience. I've never had a problem with a female officer) on a power trip. The worst one I had (out of 4 or 5) was in Laredo. I walked into the office and was threatened with fines, yelled at and made to feel like an idiot. Took a few minutes before I could even get him to tell me what he thought I had done wrong. Finally figured out that what his panties were bunched about was that I hadn't filed an EAPIS. Of course, I had. Which I patiently explained to him several times. All of that was unpleasant and aggravating, but the super aggravating part was that it took me 30 minutes to finally convince him to let me go back to my plane to get my laptop so I could should him the EAPIS receipt. When he finally allowed that, I showed him the receipt and he was able to use the tracking number to find it in his system. I didn't expect him to be contrite, since he had been an unreasonable tool during the entire encounter, but I somehow managed to be further surprised when he seemed quite ****ed that I had proven him wrong.

And that's the last time I cleared through Laredo. :lol:

I had much more minor issues at a couple other places in Texas and once coming back from the Bahamas in Florida.

Since I am a pretty positive person, I suppose I'll also share where I clear every time weather allows it. McAllen, TX. They do a high volume of GA to and from Mexico. I've been told that a lot of well-off Mexican planes clear there on their way to second homes or family in Texas, but I don't have a good way to verify. In any case, it's a well organized setup with well trained staff that does their job effectively and quickly. 90% of the time when we walk into immigration, the CBP officers are already walking out to look at our plane. By the time we're done proving ourselves to Immigration, CBP is already done and we're on our way.

Further, we usually make this an overnight, because McCreery Aviation has always treated us well and is across the street from a Courtyard by Marriot (and two other acceptable options) and Yasuke Japanese Sushi. I did a project in Tokyo and have also spent a fair bit of time vacationing there and I can say that Yasuke is the best sushi and ramen that I've had outside of Japan. There are a couple other options as well. The story I heard on that is that Reynosa, TAM has some Japanese auto assembly/parts manufacturing plants and the Japanese people don't like to stay in Reynosa because it's not a very nice town and Tamaulipas, as a state, has a reputation for crime, so they stay in McAllen. As a result, this midsized border town in deep south Texas has a handful of unexpectedly good Japanese restaurants.

So, there's your pro-tip for Mexico/Texas.
 
I've spent well over a decade living in Mexico and traveling to the US, mostly during the summer. Neither side is great, but US CBP and Immigration is the worst. The first rule is follow the rules to the letter.

The second rule is that following them to the letter is only a defense, not an assurance that you won't be harassed by men (exclusively men, in my experience. I've never had a problem with a female officer) on a power trip. The worst one I had (out of 4 or 5) was in Laredo. I walked into the office and was threatened with fines, yelled at and made to feel like an idiot. Took a few minutes before I could even get him to tell me what he thought I had done wrong. Finally figured out that what his panties were bunched about was that I hadn't filed an EAPIS. Of course, I had. Which I patiently explained to him several times. All of that was unpleasant and aggravating, but the super aggravating part was that it took me 30 minutes to finally convince him to let me go back to my plane to get my laptop so I could should him the EAPIS receipt. When he finally allowed that, I showed him the receipt and he was able to use the tracking number to find it in his system. I didn't expect him to be contrite, since he had been an unreasonable tool during the entire encounter, but I somehow managed to be further surprised when he seemed quite ****ed that I had proven him wrong.

And that's the last time I cleared through Laredo. :lol:

I had much more minor issues at a couple other places in Texas and once coming back from the Bahamas in Florida.

Since I am a pretty positive person, I suppose I'll also share where I clear every time weather allows it. McAllen, TX. They do a high volume of GA to and from Mexico. I've been told that a lot of well-off Mexican planes clear there on their way to second homes or family in Texas, but I don't have a good way to verify. In any case, it's a well organized setup with well trained staff that does their job effectively and quickly. 90% of the time when we walk into immigration, the CBP officers are already walking out to look at our plane. By the time we're done proving ourselves to Immigration, CBP is already done and we're on our way.

Further, we usually make this an overnight, because McCreery Aviation has always treated us well and is across the street from a Courtyard by Marriot (and two other acceptable options) and Yasuke Japanese Sushi. I did a project in Tokyo and have also spent a fair bit of time vacationing there and I can say that Yasuke is the best sushi and ramen that I've had outside of Japan. There are a couple other options as well. The story I heard on that is that Reynosa, TAM has some Japanese auto assembly/parts manufacturing plants and the Japanese people don't like to stay in Reynosa because it's not a very nice town and Tamaulipas, as a state, has a reputation for crime, so they stay in McAllen. As a result, this midsized border town in deep south Texas has a handful of unexpectedly good Japanese restaurants.

So, there's your pro-tip for Mexico/Texas.

There must be a huge difference between the southern and northern airports of entry in that case. Makes sense, you don't have much of an issue with illegals streaming in from the frozen tundra. So far, knocking on wood, I had nothing but pleasant encounters with CBP coming from Canada. I cleared at four different airports so far and none have made me feel unwelcome or uncomfortable. If anything, the exact opposite where CBP officers would point out good restaurants in case we'd stay the night before continuing our travels. Now, I did have the odd negative experience clearing customs when flying commercially or driving across the border, but not flying GA.
 
There must be a huge difference between the southern and northern airports of entry in that case. Makes sense, you don't have much of an issue with illegals streaming in from the frozen tundra. So far, knocking on wood, I had nothing but pleasant encounters with CBP coming from Canada. I cleared at four different airports so far and none have made me feel unwelcome or uncomfortable. If anything, the exact opposite where CBP officers would point out good restaurants in case we'd stay the night before continuing our travels. Now, I did have the odd negative experience clearing customs when flying commercially or driving across the border, but not flying GA.
Probably cultural differences between Texas and the northern US as well. In any case, as soon as the US and Canada can agree on Basic Med standards, I'll be happy to do a firsthand investigation. I regret not going to Canada when I was still third class.
 
Then why did he willfully not follow the regulations?

He made the choice, correct? He ought to have his cert. revoked.
I can see where some sort of penalty could be justified, but that seems a little harsh.
 
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