Currus Resentment

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CTLSi

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CTLSi
Why is Cirrus either loved or hated? Why do those who have never owned, flown in, or no doubt are unable to afford one feel compelled to bash the product?

I say it's classic 'class envy' - those who resent others able to by a half million buck aircraft with specs that dwarf the ancient metal Cessna's so coveted by the average 'young new' or 'aging older' pilots on aviation web sites.

But do Cirrus detractors have a real point? Are these planes too much aircraft for their owners?

Check this goofs video. He is making an entire living going after Cirrus and the founders for what he calls 'Cirrus Design Lures Pilots Into Danger'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM3s24j3cbU
 
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Lol, you really arnt a pilot are ya? Class envy?!

Go to OSK or any aviation gathering, you'll see more people drool over old taildraggers, carbon cubs and warbirds than any Cirrus.

A Cirrus just says Im not a pro, or I need a "help" handle

A L-39 or DHC-2 says "I'm rich biotch!" :D
 
Sounds like his beef is with Cirrus sales, and not with the airframe itself. I like them just fine, just was never all that sanguine about the chute. The thought of a thousand dollars a year in repacking fees just never sat well with me. Not that I could afford one anyway.
 
You love to boil all preferences down to "class envy."

There are technical reasons some love the Cirrus, there are also technical reasons some hate them. Not to mention some people just have a preference that is emotional and also valid. I like Ford Mustangs and don't like Camaros. Not a good technical reason, I just don't like the Chevy. It doesn't mean I secretly worry about my income level or am jealous because I can't afford one.

BTW, I also like CTSW and don't really care for the CTLSi. There are technical reasons for that that have nothing to due with the fact that the CTLSi costs more.
 
CTLSi said:
Why is Cirrus either loved or hated? Why do those who have never owned, flown in, or no doubt are unable to afford one feel compelled to bash the product?

I say it classic 'class envy' - those who resent others able to by a half million buck aircraft with specs that dwarf the ancient metal Cessna's so coveted by the average 'young new' or 'aging older' pilots on aviation web sites.

But do Cirrus detractors have a real point? Are these planes too much aircraft for their owners?

Check this goofs video. He is making an entire living going after Cirrus and the founders for what he calls 'Cirrus Design Lures Pilots Into Danger'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM3s24j3cbU
Click to expand...


You know, funny thing is, there are similar people like you with "class envy" against Tesla and those who can afford to buy Teslas.

You poor people are just that way.
 
BTW, the video you posted is perfectly reasonable. You might not agree with his conclusions, but he's making reasonable criticisms of Cirrus marketing. He's not saying anything bad about the aircraft at all, in fact he praises it. He' attacking Cirrus' *marketing*.
 
I'd love to be able to afford a Cirrus.
As much as I like the plane, I dislike the Cirrus owners that I have met. That small sample of people seems to me to be a bunch of rich, obnoxious and relatively incompetent and ignorant pilots. Now for those of you Cirrus drivers out there, I HAVEN'T MET YOU SO I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU.

I think it is similar to the Prius. I think it is a neat car but I just can't seem to meet any Prius owners that I like. The ones I have met are all smug and drive 40 mph on the highway. Of course though, there was Al Gores son that got arrested doing 100+ in his Prius so I admit stereotypes are often wrong.
 
If you're gonna go for class envy why a cirrus? Why not a twin, turboprop, or jet?
 
JoseCuervo said:
You know, funny thing is, there are similar people like you with "class envy" against Tesla and those who can afford to buy Teslas.

You poor people are just that way.
Click to expand...

Now that's funny! :rofl:
 
steingar said:
Sounds like his beef is with Cirrus sales, and not with the airframe itself. I like them just fine, just was never all that sanguine about the chute. The thought of a thousand dollars a year in repacking fees just never sat well with me. Not that I could afford one anyway.
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The chute is a new level of safety. So far, the Cirrus chute has saved 98 lives. Documented. Wanna bet any of those people would say the chute is worth a helluva lot more than $1000?
 
CTLSi said:
The chute is a new level of safety. So far, the Cirrus chute has saved 98 lives. Documented. Wanna bet any of those people would say the chute is worth a helluva lot more than $1000?
Click to expand...

You are not doing the math right. First, you have to consider the purchase price. Then you have to add the $1000, per year. Also, you should account for the cost for each unit that was sold and re-packed that hasn't been used. Then compare. It's not just $1000 to save a life. I'm not saying it isn't worth it, but I am saying you aren't properly doing the accounting.
 
If you go to FlightAware on a weekday and look at the number of flights by type, most often the most popular general aviation type is the Cirrus SR22. My guess is that more than a few are flown for business purposes.

The Skyhawk is usually the second most popular, not surprising.
 
PPC1052 said:
You are not doing the math right. First, you have to consider the purchase price. Then you have to add the $1000, per year. Also, you should account for the cost for each unit that was sold and re-packed that hasn't been used. Then compare. It's not just $1000 to save a life. I'm not saying it isn't worth it, but I am saying you aren't properly doing the accounting.
Click to expand...

Laughing. Okay, what's your life worth, put a dollar price tag on it?
 
When I see a Cirrus owner taxi up to the gas pump I feel he's clearly a parasitical one-percenter flaunting his undeserved wealth!

I then have the urge to BBQ him, have him for lunch with some fava beans and a nice chianti, and then fly away with his airplane.
 
JimNtexas said:
When I see a Cirrus owner taxi up to the gas pump I feel he's clearly a parasitical one-percenter flaunting his undeserved wealth!

I then have the urge to BBQ him, have him for lunch with some fava beans and a nice chianti, and then fly away with his airplane.
Click to expand...

Before you fire up the BBQ, you might want to review exactly what it is you want to eat.

20120105__20120108_E3_ae08tvameliaA~p1_400.jpg
 
With how often Cirrus burn no need to BBQ them it'll happen all by itself.
 
why is it that some posters feel compelled to start threads to discuss "class envy" when no one other than said poster has any interest in same ?

Could it possibly be, that people who don't like cirrus airplanes have specific things that they have a personal preference against ?


I'll start.
  1. I'm afraid of the fuel tank design. I think diamond got it right. Fiberglass can shatter on impact. In and of itself that's not a problem if the fuel is contained in a secondary bladder. Diamond has them. Cirrus does not.
  2. The rudder-aileron interconnect the way cirrus has done it, is something I find aggravating. Pure personal preference.
  3. The wheels are pretty tightly faired for some of the strips we go into.
Notice what is absent from my objections. Parachutes, avionics, autopilot, who cares. These are attachments, not fundamental design issues that would affect me everyday.

I could afford to buy a (used) cirrus. Instead I own a (much more used) beechcraft because it does the job I want it to do, and other models including a cirrus would not.
 
CTLSi said:
Why is Cirrus either loved or hated? Why do those who have never owned, flown in, or no doubt are unable to afford one feel compelled to bash the product?

I say it classic 'class envy' - those who resent others able to by a half million buck aircraft with specs that dwarf the ancient metal Cessna's so coveted by the average 'young new' or 'aging older' pilots on aviation web sites.
Click to expand...
 
CTLSi said:
Why is Cirrus either loved or hated? Why do those who have never owned, flown in, or no doubt are unable to afford one feel compelled to bash the product?

I say it classic 'class envy' - those who resent others able to by a half million buck aircraft with specs that dwarf the ancient metal Cessna's so coveted by the average 'young new' or 'aging older' pilots on aviation web sites.

But do Cirrus detractors have a real point? Are these planes too much aircraft for their owners?

Check this goofs video. He is making an entire living going after Cirrus and the founders for what he calls 'Cirrus Design Lures Pilots Into Danger'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM3s24j3cbU
Click to expand...

I am not a cirrus fan, but i'm not a fan of some other planes.

However, I do think the cirrus replaced the "doctor killer" as the plane of choice to bash, and that's just how it is.
 
CTLSi said:
Why is Cirrus either loved or hated? Why do those who have never owned, flown in, or no doubt are unable to afford one feel compelled to bash the product?

I say it classic 'class envy' - those who resent others able to by a half million buck aircraft with specs that dwarf the ancient metal Cessna's so coveted by the average 'young new' or 'aging older' pilots on aviation web sites.

But do Cirrus detractors have a real point? Are these planes too much aircraft for their owners?

Check this goofs video. He is making an entire living going after Cirrus and the founders for what he calls 'Cirrus Design Lures Pilots Into Danger'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM3s24j3cbU
Click to expand...

It's not Cirrus design that does it, it's Cirrus marketing, the design work is excellent although I would like to see them put a bladder in the tanks. The only issue I have is that there have been a couple of low energy incidents that should have been survivable but the fuel tank ruptured and ended burning.

As for people who hate, haters will hate, it's what they do. People are like that for a wide variety of reasons, usually to mask some personal insecurities.
 
James331 said:
Lol, you really arnt a pilot are ya? Class envy?!

Go to OSK or any aviation gathering, you'll see more people drool over old taildraggers, carbon cubs and warbirds than any Cirrus.

A Cirrus just says Im not a pro, or I need a "help" handle

A L-39 or DHC-2 says "I'm rich biotch!" :D
Click to expand...

Well, if you're not a pro, what's wrong with that?:dunno: the CAPS says "I accept bad **** can happen in bad places and I'm not such an egomaniac to think I'm so great I can save it. Also, if I become incapacitated, I want to give my passengers a better chance." The glass deck says I like to have as much information as I can in an easy to analyze format for maximum situational awareness in the minimum time concentrating on it so I can manage other things in an emergency.

An L-39 says I'm too poor to fly a real jet.:rofl: A DHC-2 means I like to live in the middle of nowhere and need to be able to make a living there.

A private A-380 with a gold plated Lav and Chandelier taking you to meet your billion dollar yacht, THAT says 'I'm Rich Biotch'.:D Anything less than a Citation X in a jet says I'm a wanna be rich guy poser.:lol:
 
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James331 said:
A Cirrus just says Im not a pro, or I need a "help" handle
Click to expand...

Yeah the "help" handle in the F-15, F-16, F-18, and F-22 says the same thing.

I guess all those USAF and USN non-pros need training wheels too.
 
CTLSi said:
Why is Cirrus either loved or hated? Why do those who have never owned, flown in, or no doubt are unable to afford one feel compelled to bash the product?

I say it's classic 'class envy' - those who resent others able to by a half million buck aircraft with specs that dwarf the ancient metal Cessna's so coveted by the average 'young new' or 'aging older' pilots on aviation web sites.

But do Cirrus detractors have a real point? Are these planes too much aircraft for their owners?

Check this goofs video. He is making an entire living going after Cirrus and the founders for what he calls 'Cirrus Design Lures Pilots Into Danger'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM3s24j3cbU
Click to expand...

A cirrus is an appliance that resembles an airplane in function. A toaster with wings. A means to an end. A bayliner powerboat or hunter sailboat.

We have several at my 'port. All owned by businessmen who write them off on taxes and use them to get from A-B. None of them come to the EAA chapter meetings or the FAAST briefs.

I do admire their speed but would not own one, even if I had the money. I was at Triple tree Flyin and do not recall seeing a Cirrus. People admired the Waco's, Cubs, Globe Swifts, C-170....

Do I need to continue?

But, by all means, go buy one.
 
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Doesn't matter to me, I'm a vintage tailwheel guy when it comes to my own ride anyways.

Besides if you're that worried just go to a DZ, get your A license and buy a cheap pilot rig with a ram air reserve packed in it.

If I was super scared I'd just grab my rig out of the closet, I trust my steerable and flairable PD ram air, over a round on a cirrus :D

Having experienced the joy of a full engine failure, I do know the feeling

Also....
Cirrus BRS does not always = salivation
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gf8DYXUOai8
 
Sometimes you're gonna die no matter what. Most guys I know who bought a Cirrus did so because the chute got their wife in the plane. I know it would have helped my Ex out.
 
its an awesome capable piston plane. Fast enough to actually go places and capable enough to weather fly. Top of the line instrumentation and avionics outweights the lack of fuel bladders.
 
Morgan3820 said:
A cirrus is an appliance that resembles an airplane in function. A toaster with wings. A means to an end. A bayliner powerboat or hunter sailboat.

We have several at my 'port. All owned by businessmen who write them off on taxes and use them to get from A-B. None of them come to the EAA chapter meetings or the FAAST briefs.

I do admire their speed but would not own one, even if I had the money. I was at Triple tree Flyin and do not recall seeing a Cirrus. People admired the Waco's, Cubs, Globe Swifts, C-170....

Do I need to continue?

But, by all means, go buy one.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, why would you not buy one?
 
It's funny how these things take on a life of their own.

A few examples come to mind. When I started looking at RVs, I was astounded at the number of pilots who dissed them. Of course, not a single one of them had every actually FLOWN an RV, so I took their "advice" with a grain of salt -- and ended up buying one. I've never had so much fun.

The same thing happens with car brands. All of my life, I have considered Lincolns to be "old man cars", and never even considered owning one -- until my sales-gal insisted that I take one for a spin. She thought I would like it -- and she was right. I was blown away -- and bought one.

So, there you have it. People can think what they want, but it may not be based on reality.
 
Or just fly what you want and don't worry too much what other people think if you're happy?
 
Jay Honeck said:
It's funny how these things take on a life of their own.

A few examples come to mind. When I started looking at RVs, I was astounded at the number of pilots who dissed them. Of course, not a single one of them had every actually FLOWN an RV, so I took their "advice" with a grain of salt -- and ended up buying one. I've never had so much fun.

The same thing happens with car brands. All of my life, I have considered Lincolns to be "old man cars", and never even considered owning one -- until my sales-gal insisted that I take one for a spin. She thought I would like it -- and she was right. I was blown away -- and bought one.

So, there you have it. People can think what they want, but it may not be based on reality.
Click to expand...

It's the other way around, reality is based on what you think. Luckily if reality is ****ty you can change your thoughts and change your reality.;)
 
Henning said:
Out of curiosity, why would you not buy one?
Click to expand...

Well first off, I do not entirely trust composite aircraft, long term. Do you think that a 2014 Cirrus will be flying 60 years from now? But the biggest thing is I do not appreciate their lines. I am sure that it is just me but something that I spend a lot of time and money on has to appeal to me on an aesthetic level and the Cirrus just doesn't do that for me. It is a plastic plane. As I said I admire their speed, but I need more than a machine. If I has Cirrus money (get the pun), I would get the nicest bonanza that I could find.

Same for my boats. The new sailboats have no appeal to me. They may have more room and fancier equipment but there is no artistry. they were designed by a committee working for the marketing department. My sailboat is fiberglass but it has a lot of teak on it and it was designed by a single naval architect named Ted Brewer who had a vision in his mind before he put pencil to paper.
 
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Morgan3820 said:
Well first off, I do not entirely trust composite aircraft, long term. Do you think that a 2014 Cirrus will be flying 60 years from now? But the biggest thing is I do not appreciate their lines. I am sure that it is just me but something that I spend a lot of time and money on has to appeal to me on an aesthetic level and the Cirrus just doesn't do that for me. It is a plastic plane. As I said I admire their speed, but I need more than a machine. If I has Cirrus money (get the pun), I would get the nicest bonanza that I could find.

Same for my boats. The new sailboats have no appeal to me. They may have more room and fancier equipment but there is no artistry. they were designed by a committee working for the marketing department. My sailboat is fiberglass but it has a lot of teak on it and it was designed by a single naval architect named Ted Brewer who had a vision in his mind before he put pencil to paper.
Click to expand...


I can't say I don't share the same concern on the longevity of carbon fiber, even fiberglass at aircraft weights isn't going to last 60 years, but then neither am I.:rofl: CF has a few extra issues, but the Cirrus is now over a decade old and I'm not hearing about delamination or any other indicators that the matrix is releasing from the plastic.

As for sailboats, I came up in this industry as a Schooner Rat on old wood boats.
 
Jay Honeck said:
It's funny how these things take on a life of their own.

A few examples come to mind. When I started looking at RVs, I was astounded at the number of pilots who dissed them. Of course, not a single one of them had every actually FLOWN an RV, so I took their "advice" with a grain of salt -- and ended up buying one. I've never had so much fun.

I liked RV's from the first. Still do, very much so. But the RV-10 is the only one that has a back seat and I can't afford it w/o selling the house.
Click to expand...
 
Henning said:
I can't say I don't share the same concern on the longevity of carbon fiber, even fiberglass at aircraft weights isn't going to last 60 years, but then neither am I.:rofl: CF has a few extra issues, but the Cirrus is now over a decade old and I'm not hearing about delamination or any other indicators that the matrix is releasing from the plastic.

As for sailboats, I came up in this industry as a Schooner Rat on old wood boats.
Click to expand...

I have a Morgan 382. I find it interesting that many pilots also sail.
 
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