Crosswind landings in gusty conditions

Bonchie

Bonchie

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
1,505
Display Name
Display name:
Bonchie
Got in last night and found the winds 50 degrees off at 19G25. That still correlates to a pretty wicked crosswind for a part-time 182 driver like me and though I had planned to get there before dark, we missed it by about 10 minutes, so that added an extra layer.

I got the plane down softly, but man did it feel ugly. I was on the center line for the most part, but I had to ride the throttle pretty good for about 400 feet to keep from sinking too fast after we caught a gust in the flare and we popped up a bit. My indicated was also all over the place on short final, I guess from gusts, so there was a lot of me pushing the throttle in to not get too slow over the fence. I think I landed on both mains vs. touching the correct main first.

Simple question. Do you find it possible to get stabilized in conditions like that? Should I fly a touch faster on approach to account for the possibility of wind dropping out on final? Is it normal to just have to wrestle it down when it's gusting that badly? In other words, what's to be expected and what's to improve on?
 
Just doing the math that crosswind is probably near the POH demonstrated max, right? and the gusts would push it over that number? 14.5Kt gusting 19 crosswind component. So, I'd assume wrestling is to be expected? Sounds like you did a good job.

I think the 'canned' answer for the gust will be add half the gust factor to your approach speed, so +3kt in this example.

disclaimer: super low timer, 10kt direct cross is 'interesting' for me :)
 
That's normal. Gusty winds, by definition, are not stable, so I don't expect to fly a completely stabilized approach. As long as you can keep it more or less over the center line and control the sink rate you are doing great.
 
edo2000 said:
That's normal. Gusty winds, by definition, are not stable, so I don't expect to fly a completely stabilized approach. As long as you can keep it more or less over the center line and control the sink rate you are doing great.
Click to expand...
...and the airplane aligned with the runway.
 
Sounds to be like you did fine. You do have to be aggressive with wind conditions like that if ya wanna land. Even in big planes, and jets.
 
My passenger's pucker factor was pretty high. We had been on a fishing trip and the way there was totally mundane and that was his first experience in less than ideal conditions.

Hopefully, I didn't ruin flying for him ;)
 
19g25 really isn't that much of a gust factor. It is a bit of a stiff crosswind...of course I wasn't there and don't know what you really encountered and what you are used to dealing with. If you fly on the Great Plains or in Wyoming it would be a good breeze. Other places it might be the most wind you ever see.

One other thing is if the wind direction varies with the gusts, then 19g25 can get more interesting. You were there and you dealt with it. Fly the plane. Rarely is more speed a good thing when landing but there are circumstances when it may be required. Usually those circumstances include some aerodynamic problem and not just wind.
 
FWIW I've never added airspeed and I've never changed my flap setting due to a crosswind. Sounds like you did a fine job - 25 knots of wind especially at night when it's gusty can make for a real handful.

I don't like flying at night FWIW, and I'm thankful I only have to for three months a year.
 
Don't worry about finesse in conditions like that. If you got it down reasonably firmly near centerline with minimal side load and on the mains, you did just fine.

I won't do a short field landing in conditions like that, and CAP won't let me do any landing outside of an emergency (but I can in a rental) with gusts over max demonstrated.

Do go around if you think you can get in between gusts the next time around, or if you're just not comfortable with how it's going. But don't go looking for perfect squeaker landings. It's counterproductive, as it keeps you in the flare longer.
 
Sounds like my landing at KFWQ a few months ago. My first long XC after getting my ticket and the biggest crosswind I had ever flown in. And to add to the difficulty, Rostraver sits up on a bluff so the wind was a little tricky on the approach. I drifted left in the flare and was about to punch out just as the mains touched. Called it good. I've learned to push myself a bit on crosswind stuff and it's making me better at it. I think when I was doing crosswind landings as a student I allowed myself to think that my CFI would recover for me if I got in trouble. Now I've got nobody but myself and I definitely fight the wind better that way.
 
Bonchie said:
Got in last night and found the winds 50 degrees off at 19G25. That still correlates to a pretty wicked crosswind for a part-time 182 driver like me ...

I got the plane down softly, but man did it feel ugly. I was on the center line for the most part, but I had to ride the throttle pretty good for about 400 feet to keep from sinking too fast after we caught a gust in the flare and we popped up a bit.
Click to expand...

Besides the high wind, you'll get some really interesting effect from hangars, trees, hills, shear, etc. Make every approach intending to go-around in high wind ... if you like what you see, chop and drop. If not, you just got a free peek-a-boo and a decision to be made whether to try again.
 
Bonchie said:
Do you find it possible to get stabilized in conditions like that?
Click to expand...
Stabilized? Nope, you get blown all over
Bonchie said:
Should I fly a touch faster on approach to account for the possibility of wind dropping out on final?
Click to expand...
I do
Bonchie said:
Is it normal to just have to wrestle it down when it's gusting that badly?
Click to expand...
Yup. Take a camera up with you next time it's windy and film yourself on some landings with crosswinds. It's amazing what you do without even realizing it.
Bonchie said:
In other words, what's to be expected and what's to improve on?
Click to expand...
Expect the unexpected. Practice practice and then practice some more.
 
In cases like that, you just have to keep flying until you get it on the runway. I think you did a great job.
 
Couple of questions I have, What airspeed were you shooting for on final? Flap settings? Carrying power all the way in or adding power to compensate for the gusts/shear?
 
Iceman21 said:
Couple of questions I have, What airspeed were you shooting for on final? Flap settings? Carrying power all the way in or adding power to compensate for the gusts/shear?
Click to expand...

OP should be impressed when about to get assistance from Iceman :p
 
my CFI landed the 172 on Saturday afternoon with 21G30 (or 19G30), it was definitely not the best landing I have experienced with him, but it was turbulent as hell, we hit a wind sheer very close to the run way and he was literally muscling with the plane. based on what I saw, I don't think there is something like a smooth touchdown in that condition.

on a diff note, saw a king air puff the tire on the active runway rt before ground roll and tower closed the only usable runway (I was in the tower and its a pretty cool place) under that wind condition.
 
It may of been mentioned but this subject wouldn't be complete without mixing in some 'ADM'. That is, the decision to fly in the 1st place(recreationally) then the decision to attempt a landing at a particular airport. We should all know the forecast winds before the flight.

Then on a cross country or extended flight, maybe our 1st choice of an airport isn't the best place to be landing, even if it's the destination. Maybe I'll go find a runway more aligned with the strong wind? Not to be a wuss, but didn't some guy say 'A man(or woman) has got to know his limitations'?
 
farmerbrake said:
I just learned the saying 'every landing is just a failed go around'
Click to expand...

I once landed the Mooney in a direct 90* 19G26 wind, I landed on the third attempt, the 1st two were go arounds. And, I was fully prepared to bug out to an airport with a better aligned runway had I not stuck the 3rd try. Three strikes and you're out!
 
sourdough44 said:
It may of been mentioned but this subject wouldn't be complete without mixing in some 'ADM'. That is, the decision to fly in the 1st place(recreationally) then the decision to attempt a landing at a particular airport. We should all know the forecast winds before the flight.

Then on a cross country or extended flight, maybe our 1st choice of an airport isn't the best place to be landing, even if it's the destination. Maybe I'll go find a runway more aligned with the strong wind? Not to be a wuss, but didn't some guy say 'A man(or woman) has got to know his limitations'?
Click to expand...

There were two airports less than 10nm away that both had the wind only 10 degrees off. I was ready to go if needed and had briefed my passenger we might do that.

I felt it was safe to give an attempt at my airport first.
 
Last edited:
WannFly said:
my CFI landed the 172 on Saturday afternoon with 21G30 (or 19G30), it was definitely not the best landing I have experienced with him.
Click to expand...

Probably operator error (me:eek:), but I noticed I get better high wind landings in the Tiger versus the previous rental 152's and 172's.
 
I do better in my Warrior than the C-172. I think it may be that you enter the ground effect cushion sooner in a low wing than you do in a high wing.
 
I hate flying in windy weather, but I love landing in it. Challenging. The more crosswind, the better. I only use 2 notches of flaps (25*) in the Cherokee, instead of 40*. I find it give me more control/stability, and add 10 knots on the approach. It will make the landing longer but I have 6500 feet to use up. One of my CFI told me that I'm paying for the whole runway, so I can use it if needed. :p
 
I had a day I was doing touch n goes a few weeks back 14 G19 out of 280, landing 36. Dumb part? We have a runway 29 and I wasn't aware of the phrase "unable." My instructor was annoyed but never called ATC on the choice. I had a rough ride in a 172, cant imagine how the Tomahawk in pattern behind me was feeling!
 
I like the challenge also, but sometimes I start thinking "just a little mistake and I might regret this challenge."
 
Landing with 15 to 20 knot variable cross winds in a 1,200 gross weight J-3 Cub taildragger on pavement is no fun. While landing on a grass runway under the same wind conditions is almost a piece of cake as long as you don’t relax too much.
 
Should be a fun day in LGA tomorrow. Gusting to 30 and probably doing the expressway visual.
 
C.J. said:
I had a day I was doing touch n goes a few weeks back 14 G19 out of 280, landing 36. Dumb part? We have a runway 29 and I wasn't aware of the phrase "unable." My instructor was annoyed but never called ATC on the choice. I had a rough ride in a 172, cant imagine how the Tomahawk in pattern behind me was feeling!
Click to expand...

Unable? Or you don't want to?

I assume the instructor saw a good opportunity for you to get some good crosswind Landing experience...or at least I hope so; one would expect a CFI to speak up to ATC if there was an issue. Sometimes at busy airports asking for a different runway--even if it's more aligned with the wind--may not be possible (or take considerable delay) if all of the other traffic is using the active runway due to operational requirements (length, weight capacity, etc.). It's good to be comfortable handling healthy crosswinds.
 
Morgan3820 said:
I do better in my Warrior than the C-172. I think it may be that you enter the ground effect cushion sooner in a low wing than you do in a high wing.
Click to expand...

Wind normally decreases close to the surface due to surface friction, so its logical that - all things being equal - a low wing should be a bit easier to handle in a crosswind.
 
Add the gust factor to your approach speed and try to for-go flaps.
 
KPDK would be useless 3-4 months of the year if 25kts 60deg crosswinds were a big problem. Almost every day this winter we've had 20+ gusts from 270, and 3L/R or 21R/L are the only runways available.
 
somorris said:
I like the challenge also, but sometimes I start thinking "just a little mistake and I might regret this challenge."
Click to expand...

Later you'll be like the other poster that said he liked practicing in it, but not flying long XC through it. My area is brutal for long trips this time of year. Just crossed 700 hours, and although the high crosswinds are no big deal for landings, high winds aloft in the mountain areas aren't fun. My son sleeps through the pretty intense stuff (has been flying with me for 10 years), but is the only one I'd ever take as a pax if winds aloft in cruise are high. I love anything less than 15 on the ground and 30 in the air (max ground 29G33 direct crosswind and 70 knot head winds and tailwinds in cruise).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top