Crossing a runway in my car

Yes. I've always had a radio on CTAF with me when driving on the runway at airports with any risk of airplane traffic at all but not everyone is so burdened.
I've also hauled *** down the runway in a support truck chasing an airplane as it takes off.

Nauga,
see me but don't feel me or touch me
 
4 ways on (can see them a mile off at night)
Windows Open to hear all the arriving helos we have even at 5am (DPS, USBP)
Paid up 5 mil insurance lol
 
Based on the amount of donut burnout tire tracks at the threshold, I'm guessing lots of people are driving on the runway
 
My grandparents lived at an airpark when I was growing up. He also had a moped. The runway was my personal drag strip
 
At controlled airports like Atlanta. They separate the areas aircraft can operate from where vehicles can operate.

All vehicles operating in aircraft areas must be in 2 way communication with the tower, or be controlled by someone who is.

Back when Atlanta completely redid one of their runways. They hired a bunch of guys to run radios as a ‘crossing guard’. Yes that is an official FAA position for the people designated to control the hundreds of dump trucks moving material.

On uncontrolled airports, no tower, no control, aircraft have right of way. Typically they will close the airport, issue notams, and place the required lighted X’s on each end of the runway when vehicles are going to be on the runway for any length of time.

An interesting story. I have an private airport within walking distance of my house. Before I got a hangar there, I would tie down there overnight if I had to launch early.

I was flying in after dark and making the usual radio calls in the blind and repeatedly keying the mike to get the runway lighting to come on.

I received a call back that the runway was closed for repaving. No notams, no illuminated X at the end of the runway. I guess some of the FAA regs don’t apply to priivate airstrips
 
Groundpounder said:
Let's say they don't have any.
Click to expand...

So its not just a matter of controlled or uncontrolled, it will depend on if the airport is a Certified Commercial Airport under FAR Part 139. An airport does not even have to have scheduled service to be certified, even unscheduled large charters can trigger the need to comply with Part 139. If it is a certified 139 airport, they will have a vehicle or driver program that imposes requirements on the vehicle, training on the driver, and rules and restrictions on where you can and can't go.

Non-139, non towered, could have rules, could not have rules, all depends airport to airport. If you have an accident with an airplane, you will be in the wrong. From the other side as a pilot, how would you feel if you were just about to touch down and saw a car coming at you? Accidents have happened even at certified and towered airports.
 
nauga said:
Yes. I've always had a radio on CTAF with me when driving on the runway at airports with any risk of airplane traffic at all but not everyone is so burdened.
I've also hauled *** down the runway in a support truck chasing an airplane as it takes off.

Nauga,
see me but don't feel me or touch me
Click to expand...
Why?
 
MauleSkinner said:
Obviously not a typical line guy car, unless you were driving backwards to watch for the parts it dropped on the way. ;)
Click to expand...
Sometimes we used a pickup truck, especially when testing for braking action. But this FBO has a courtesy car that is a Lincoln. The previous one was a Cadillac. Transients are often surprised.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
Sometimes we used a pickup truck, especially when testing for braking action. But this FBO has a courtesy car that is a Lincoln. The previous one was a Cadillac. Transients are often surprised.
Click to expand...
How old is that Lincoln? Do the windows still work?
 
Lindberg said:
Commonly stated, but I've never seen this claim supported by any rule or regulation.
Click to expand...
While I don't think this document is regulatory, the FAA does state that aircraft have right-of-way over ground vehicles.
Always yield the right-of-way to moving aircraft. Do not assume the pilot will see you, especially in busy areas like aprons/ramps where pilots are busy with preflight checks.
Click to expand...
This is likely the source of the guidance most of us use.
 
rockyfatcat said:
At controlled airports like Atlanta. They separate the areas aircraft can operate from where vehicles can operate.
Click to expand...
Close.....

There are movement and non-movement areas. ATC controls all vehicles in the movement area. The non-movement areas (ramps, aprons etc) are still have operating rules but are not controlled by ATC. For example if we want to do an idle engine run at the gate we still need to contact the local control for permission as we have to block off some access lanes. If we need to cross onto a runway (for example a plane lands and has flat tires) then yes, ATC permission is required. So vehicles can operate anywhere on the airport as long as they have permission from the proper controlling entity. ATL's runways are full of construction vehicles every night... you can even hear them on liveATC if you tune into ground. Exciting stuff.

The two areas are delinaited by what looks like a hold short line (one side a solid line, the other side dashed).

At uncontrolled fields there is no ATC to contact, so movement is controlled by local policy, which I'm sure is written in a binder on a shelf not opened in a dozen or so years.
The only real issue would be is if you had a card/key to enter the security fence. Most public airports will have some sort of security (lol, sure). Most use the CTAF freq as the keycode.

At private fields.... its the wild west. My hangar is off a dirt road next to a grass strip.
 
Lindberg said:
Commonly stated, but I've never seen this claim supported by any rule or regulation.
Click to expand...
Do you want to lose your SIDA badge? Because cutting off a taxiing AC is grounds for a fine and losing your SIDA badge.

So yes, it is 100% an airport rule that AC have rightaway... only emergency response have higher priority.
 
pfarber said:
Do you want to lose your SIDA badge?
Click to expand...
I have no idea what that is. I don't think I have one.
pfarber said:
Because cutting off a taxiing AC is grounds for a fine and losing your SIDA badge.
Click to expand...
Oh great. Then you can cite the regulation that says I can be fined for failure to yield to an aircraft at an uncontrolled airport.
 
Last edited:
pfarber said:
So yes, it is 100% an airport rule that AC have rightaway... only emergency response have higher priority.
Click to expand...
Years ago, I was taxiing a Cessna 170 across IAD heading to the FBO at night. I had the position lights an rotating beacon on but not the strobes (it was well after sunset). As I was crossing a roadway I could see one of the big honking mobile lounges bearing down on the intersection. I moved to slow my taxi a bit, but the instructor yelled, "Aircraft have the right of way, keep going." As I'm continuing along, the owner of the plane (who was in the rear seat) reaches up and kicks on the strobes. The lounge driver then notices us and slams on the brakes. I can see the standees in the windows toppling over from the abrupt stop.
 
YakDrvr said:
How old is that Lincoln? Do the windows still work?
Click to expand...
I don't think it is all that old. It used to belong to one of the FBO owners, and she keeps things in good repair. I've never used that car, so I don't know about the windows, but my guess is that they work fine.
 
Lindberg said:
No, it for sure isn't regulatory. It's also not for general consumption by drivers.

"The FAA Guide to Ground Vehicle Operations was created For you, the driver of a tug, fuel truck, baggage cart or other airport vehicle."
Click to expand...
So the various airports don't use this as a guide about how ground vehicles, such as automobiles, should interact with aircraft?

That's what I was trying to convey with this comment:
Cap'n Jack said:
This is likely the source of the guidance most of us use.
Click to expand...

Do you think airport management doesn't look to the FAA documents for guidance? Why wouldn't they use that document for guidance?
 
Last edited:
I’ve heard folks driving across announce on Unicom. Probably not a bad thing to do. I e also heard of folks drag racing on the runway (not me) but it happens…..
 
Cap'n Jack said:
So the various airports don't use this as a guide about how ground vehicles, such as automobiles, should interact with aircraft?
Click to expand...
I have no idea what various airport to do. I've never seen that document before, so certainly no airport that I've flown at or driven at has made me aware of it.
Cap'n Jack said:
Do you think airport management doesn't look to the FAA documents for guidance? Why wouldn't they use that document for guidance?
Click to expand...
Again, I have no idea what airport management does. But I was responding to a comment that airplanes always have the right of way over cars at uncontrolled fields.
 
Initial Fix said:
I’ve heard folks driving across announce on Unicom. Probably not a bad thing to do. I e also heard of folks drag racing on the runway (not me) but it happens…..
Click to expand...
Years ago I was helping a friend ferry his plane back from the engine overhaul. We landed at New London, VA. As I'm on short final I look out and say "This is a drag strip. I work on a drag strip, this is one." It then occured to me that the guys from my track (Old Dominion Speedway) talked about going to Lynchburg one Sunday a month for the drags and this must be it. While we were on the ground, the State Police showed up and asked if we were taking off soon as they wanted to set up cones on the runway and practice driving fast.

A few months later, Margy and I were out flying nowhere in particular and she asked what we could do. I send, lets go flyover New London. Margy's passing down the length of the runway at 1000 AGL. I'm looking down there and see promoter Dickie Gore smiling and waving at us. The next week I'm back at Old Dominion and he asked me if that was me over New London last week. I said it was. He said he figure it was me, but his brother was having a fit thinking that someone was going to try and land during the races. It wouldn't be that big of a thing as long as you missed the "christmas tree" in the middle.
 
Lindberg said:
No, it for sure isn't regulatory. It's also not for general consumption by drivers.

"The FAA Guide to Ground Vehicle Operations was created For you, the driver of a tug, fuel truck, baggage cart or other airport vehicle."
Click to expand...

This is an area in which I have at least some expertise. The FAA does state that aircraft have right of way. The reason is aircraft are less maneuverable and have poorer visibility from the cockpit than most vehicles.

From a regulatory standpoint, only FAR Part 139 which covers certificated Commercial Airports covers vehicles and pedestrians on an airport. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-G/part-139/subpart-D/section-139.329

There is also FAA Advisory Circular AC 150/5210-20A which is good practice for all airports, but not mandatory. In the AC, paragraph 3.1.2 reads:

1770055783027.png

Now most pilots have never seen these documents, because they have never had cause to be trained in Airport Operations. There are a hundred Advisory Circulars that apply to Airports, Airport Sponsors, and Airport Operators that most pilots will never see. And I can guarantee if you are driving on an airfield and collide with an aircraft, barring ATC directions, you will be at 100% at fault.
 
midwestpa24 said:
The FAA does state that aircraft have right of way.
Click to expand...
Again asserted without any support. None of your references have any applicability to a) uncontrolled fields or 2) car drivers.

I presume the NTSB is informed in this area. So in a well-known car vs. airplane accident, that's been referenced many times on this website, why didn't the NTSB cite a rule that says cars must yield right of way to aircraft?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top