Cross country

Jim B

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Jim
Might be flying a Grumman Cheetah, with 38 gallon tank, from CA to PA in December or January. Other than fly the southern route, are there any suggestions or recommendations? Other than don’t do it. It will be two experienced Commercial/Military Pilots with a lot of flying experience but not a lot in GA.

Thanks
 
Don't run out of gas. Cross-check engine monitor to gauges. Compare computed to actual burn when you fill up. Lean aggressively. Stick to your reserve limits.

Carry basic tools and minor repair kit. Safety wire, aluminum tape, WD40, etc.

Make sure you have an ADS-B In source.

Build in some time to get stuck somewhere for a few days.
 
Don't set a schedule. As a commercial/mil pilot myself I know we are all hard wired to say "I'm leaving on this day and will arrive on this day" but in the winter in a small airplane, you need to PLAN for things to not be on schedule. Give yourself plenty of flexibility and maybe even look up some good side-excursions for the day(s) you get stuck for wx or mx.

And cross the mountains as early after sunrise as you can.
 
Especially crossing the Rockies leave at about dawn to avoid the bumps, timing which would also possibly avoid PM TRW's. The surface winds can be quite impressive so pick airports with multiple runways to avoid cross wind components worries. Consider purchasing a PLB. Enjoy your adventure.
 
Don’t entertain ideas of entering instrument conditions. Give a few degrees of leeway on aloft forecast temps if you do. Might need to dip way south given whatever the weather is doing that day/week if you like cloud flying.

Take a look at this Airmet Zulu and how it’s limited to way north.
IMG_0055.jpeg
Then realize that as far south as Birmingham, AL it’s -1 deg C at 3,000 ft.

You may already know this, and apologies if you do, but if I flew big planes with ice capability for decades, I might not/have forgotten.
 
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I am considering a similar trip NJ to Austin in a couple of weeks that I will go and be back in 3 days time. I will only do it if it’s VFR the entire way (low probability) and have a commercial ticket ready to go already. I have my IFR and am comfortable in IMC but I don’t come near a cloud in the winter (unless the weather is far above freezing like 60 degrees at surface).

If you have time constraints I wouldn’t do this trip if weather isn’t VFR the whole way with good buffer from the clouds. If you don’t have time constraints then do it.. it will be awesome

From a route perspective, fly to Atlanta and then up. Better chance of avoiding weather given you will avoid the mountain range
 
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I am considering a similar trip NJ to Austin in a couple of weeks that I will go and be back in 3 days time. I will only do it if it’s VFR the entire way (low probability) and have a commercial ticket ready to go already. I have my IFR and am comfortable in IMC but I don’t come near a cloud in the winter (unless the weather is far above freezing like 60 degrees at surface).

If you have time constraints I wouldn’t do this trip if weather isn’t VFR the whole way with good buffer from the clouds. If you don’t have time constraints then do it.. it will be awesome

From a route perspective, fly to Atlanta and then up. Better chance of avoiding weather given you will avoid the mountain range
Thank you, we are going to take our time and yes we are planning the Southern route. Hope your trips fun and safe.
 
What everybody said above. Hope you have a great trip! Only thing I'd add is do a quick read of the Scott Crossfield and Dale Snodgrass crashes if you're not already familiar with the premise...exceptional skill can lead to complacency. (Crossfield may just have had a really bad weather report, I don't remember.)
 
Weather, Weather, Weather! At least this time of year in that kind of plane. Your Commercial & Military training may help, but sort of like a GA pilot looking to move up to the Airlines... It sort of helps, but they tell you to forget what you learned. Any situations you had in the past you probably had an "out" for in the planes you fly. But, now you're in a little Cheetah. :D If everything is in your favor, you may have a big High starting in the west and slowly moving east that you can just follow, but unlikely. I've made 8 or so X-US flights in my Mooney (so 16 times if you separate the out and back) and granted in the summer, it can be pretty uneventful if you don't have Wx to contend with. And I'll assume the plane is IFR capable, but this time of year you can get grounded by broken clouds that you just shouldn't climb through. I once did an Oct flight where almost every flight was CAVU, but I still managed to log .2 because out of KAWO (north of SEA) Departure made me climb to the West vs just heading South. Had that been this time of year, I probably would not have been able to do it due icing. Besides that factor, here's my list:​
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Many of your fuel stops will probably be into smaller airports, NOT the kind you're use to. Before you depart, CALL AHEAD to the next airport just to confirm there are no issues with the pumps or anything else.​
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When you call these smaller airports, ask about accommodations. The FBOs at these 3-4,000ft runway airports also often have deals with some of the local Hotel/Motels and they even have a deal where they'll come get you and bring you back. Worth knowing, just in case you can't depart due to what's further down you route. If the FBO doesn't have any deals, just do a quick search the night before about potential places to stay at your different stops the next day.​
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Ah yes, the Crew Car... A lot of these smaller airports may have a loaner/crew car, but then they may not. So worth checking into. Also... at the bigger airports you're also probably going to go into, remember you're not flying your big metal $$$ aircraft. So the FBO may be hesitant to let you have a crew car if they have someone else coming in that's going to take a lot more than you're 20 some gallons.:D​
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For your schedule and mental health, schedule at least double the number of days you think it will take you to get to PA. Wx could stop you for day or two, you get going and then you end up somewhere stopped again for a couple of days. If it all goes well and it takes just the basic number of days, great. But don't get into a get-there-itis situation.​
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Get it in your head the plane you're flying will not do ANYTHING the planes you're use to fly will do. There will be a point you can't climb above something, you can't descend through something, no deicing and the prop can ice up just as fast as the wing in moist air. And I'm assuming you're already going to be fully loaded, so your climb rate is going to be pretty bad.​
​
Down low there's a chance you are going to loose ATC every so often, which is something that probably doesn't happen to you much. No biggie, just reach out and see if anyone can hear you on the Freq that can relay to ATC. Then just find out what the next Freq for you will be and when you'll be in range. Common sense yes, but it might not be your first go-to action the first time it happens since it just doesn't happen on your normal flight. I usually fly in the 15/16K range and through the Dakotas and Montana I've had some dead spots. And more than once I've been asked to try and reach someone down low by me to relay a message. (Again, maybe not such a big deal down south.)​
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Keep us posted on your trip. Should get you back to your roots of stick & rudder.​
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Unless you’re can make repairs yourself, land at airports with maintenance services, can use airnav.com to get airport information.
Airports near highways and cities generally have hotels/fast food options close by, I generally prefer to walk after a long day of flying.
Most small airports don’t have anyone there after business hours, so end your flying day by 4pm. Then you can leave early to get a few more hours of flight time in if needed.
Flexible schedule is key to avoiding weather and having the option to stay an extra day if needed. BTW, weather includes more than just precipitation, you’re flying low in a old small plane, check the winds too. Once winds get above 20 in the southwest, things are going to get rough, and perhaps dangerous if winds are high.
 
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Weather, Weather, Weather! At least this time of year in that kind of plane. Your Commercial & Military training may help, but sort of like a GA pilot looking to move up to the Airlines... It sort of helps, but they tell you to forget what you learned. Any situations you had in the past you probably had an "out" for in the planes you fly. But, now you're in a little Cheetah. :D If everything is in your favor, you may have a big High starting in the west and slowly moving east that you can just follow, but unlikely. I've made 8 or so X-US flights in my Mooney (so 16 times if you separate the out and back) and granted in the summer, it can be pretty uneventful if you don't have Wx to contend with. And I'll assume the plane is IFR capable, but this time of year you can get grounded by broken clouds that you just shouldn't climb through. I once did an Oct flight where almost every flight was CAVU, but I still managed to log .2 because out of KAWO (north of SEA) Departure made me climb to the West vs just heading South. Had that been this time of year, I probably would not have been able to do it due icing. Besides that factor, here's my list:​
​
Many of your fuel stops will probably be into smaller airports, NOT the kind you're use to. Before you depart, CALL AHEAD to the next airport just to confirm there are no issues with the pumps or anything else.​
​
When you call these smaller airports, ask about accommodations. The FBOs at these 3-4,000ft runway airports also often have deals with some of the local Hotel/Motels and they even have a deal where they'll come get you and bring you back. Worth knowing, just in case you can't depart due to what's further down you route. If the FBO doesn't have any deals, just do a quick search the night before about potential places to stay at your different stops the next day.​
​
Ah yes, the Crew Car... A lot of these smaller airports may have a loaner/crew car, but then they may not. So worth checking into. Also... at the bigger airports you're also probably going to go into, remember you're not flying your big metal $$$ aircraft. So the FBO may be hesitant to let you have a crew car if they have someone else coming in that's going to take a lot more than you're 20 some gallons.:D​
​
For your schedule and mental health, schedule at least double the number of days you think it will take you to get to PA. Wx could stop you for day or two, you get going and then you end up somewhere stopped again for a couple of days. If it all goes well and it takes just the basic number of days, great. But don't get into a get-there-itis situation.​
​
Get it in your head the plane you're flying will not do ANYTHING the planes you're use to fly will do. There will be a point you can't climb above something, you can't descend through something, no deicing and the prop can ice up just as fast as the wing in moist air. And I'm assuming you're already going to be fully loaded, so your climb rate is going to be pretty bad.​
​
Down low there's a chance you are going to loose ATC every so often, which is something that probably doesn't happen to you much. No biggie, just reach out and see if anyone can hear you on the Freq that can relay to ATC. Then just find out what the next Freq for you will be and when you'll be in range. Common sense yes, but it might not be your first go-to action the first time it happens since it just doesn't happen on your normal flight. I usually fly in the 15/16K range and through the Dakotas and Montana I've had some dead spots. And more than once I've been asked to try and reach someone down low by me to relay a message. (Again, maybe not such a big deal down south.)​
​
Keep us posted on your trip. Should get you back to your roots of stick & rudder.​
​
Thanks so much for that sage advice. It’s going to be a fun experience with my son, but I am a little nervous and won’t hesitate to leave the Airplane somewhere if we have to.
 
Thanks so much for that sage advice. It’s going to be a fun experience with my son, but I am a little nervous and won’t hesitate to leave the Airplane somewhere if we have to.

It will be an incredible adventure. I am envious.
 
Might be flying a Grumman Cheetah, with 38 gallon tank, from CA to PA in December or January. Other than fly the southern route, are there any suggestions or recommendations? Other than don’t do it. It will be two experienced Commercial/Military Pilots with a lot of flying experience but not a lot in GA.

Thanks
Save some money and book a first class ticket on the airlines - it'll easier for everyone.

I'm in the market for a 90s Mirage and even being ATL based - I'll fly commercially if I have to go to Seattle or LA.
 
Might be flying a Grumman Cheetah, with 38 gallon tank, from CA to PA in December or January. Other than fly the southern route, are there any suggestions or recommendations? Other than don’t do it. It will be two experienced Commercial/Military Pilots with a lot of flying experience but not a lot in GA.

Thanks
Not sure what "with a lot of flying experience but not in GA" means quantitatively.
I have never flown as a commercial pilot and never for the military, however, and no offense intended, I question the level of relevance that sort of prior experience has to flying a Cheetah 2500 nm in winter.

That said, my across the continent flights were great adventures. Whatever you decide, Good Luck, Stay safe, WEATHER!
What everyone said above.
 
Looking at your other posts, it looks like you’re considering a Cheetah with low hours over several decades. In addition to a thorough pre-buy, I’d highly encourage you to get some meaningful time on the plane near home before heading east: not only is the engine something to check out but pretty much every other system, pulley, seal, or whatever, that benefits from frequent movement/use. Hopefully any problems would reveal themselves locally and can be fixed before the big trip.

Coming from Camarillo, yeah, definitely take the southern route. If IFR, expect they’ll route you over Idyllwild, which can be high for a 160hp. And I’d leave as early as possible, since you’ll probably be refueling in the PHX/TUS area and cooler is better.

Las Cruces is a common next stop for me in my Warrior, typically in the early afternoon. Again, watch the heat/DA when departing. Also, more times than not I get mountain waves east of the Franklin Mtns (El Paso) for a few hundred miles and often ask for a block altitude if IFR. After that your trip will likely be much more straightforward until you get near the Appalachians for wherever you’re going.

Enjoy!
 
Might be flying a Grumman Cheetah, with 38 gallon tank, from CA to PA in December or January. Other than fly the southern route, are there any suggestions or recommendations? Other than don’t do it. It will be two experienced Commercial/Military Pilots with a lot of flying experience but not a lot in GA.

Thanks
Plenty of good advice. One aspect that I didn’t see mentioned is the Cheetah’s service ceiling. Stretching my feeble memory suggests that it’s around 12,000 or so. That’s not high enough to reach many of the airway MEAs crossing the Sierras. However, it’s more than sufficient for a VFR flight south of Palmdale etc. Keep in mind that even while staying clear of the mountains you’ll cross broad stretches with elevations 5-7k. I’ve done it several times in light airplanes, including an east-to-west trip in a J-3 Cub. Many great memories.

As for stops along the way, I strongly suggest landing at as many as you can make time for. Chino (warbirds); Grand Canyon—stay at the lodge, wake early and watch sunrise from the rim. Note—flights over the Canyon are subject to SFAR procedures and require a little homework; Sedona; Page, where you can fly up spectacular Lake Powell; Payson AZ has a nice campground on the airport and a decent restaurant; Monument Valley, which has a runway next to the lodge. I will stop here and allow others to make suggestions for good stops east of the four-corners area.
 
Get on the tail end of a weather system, and ride it eastward(pick the right time to leave). Density altitude not a problem in the winter. Wind speed is not as big a deal if you have a tailwind, merely throttle back to maneuvering speed and ride out the waves. Going against the wind is when it really matters. Stay south till you find a gap in the system to head NE.
 
Might be flying a Grumman Cheetah, with 38 gallon tank, from CA to PA in December or January.

At least you’re headed eastbound. Westbound in the winter semi’s on the interstate could be passing you. Lots of good advice here already. You guys obviously know how to fly, and how to stay alive. My 0.10 cents is leave extra time and just do it!
 
Do a search for 7-day VFR weather planning. It is relatively easy to pick good VFR days a week in advance. The reverse of this is also true it is relatively easy to determine bad VFR weather days several days in advance. That will be your main tool for successful flight planning and downtime planning. Good luck with your trip.
 
Sounds like a fun trip. Even in the winter. Build in bad weather days. And plan fuel stops conservatively with any overnight plans.

Be sure to post pictures and little trip report afterwards too :)
 
When you get ready to go, post your N# and give us your proposed departure date. We can follow along on FlightAware (etc.) and see your Sllloooowww progress.

Sorry, was that too soon??? :D
 
AA-5 owner here.

(1) You need to be on the ground by 3+30 to maintain a full 1 hour reserve if cruising at 2550 rpm (see below). I plan on 2 gal for taxi and initial climb, and 8 gph thereafter with leaning to beset economy. This is fairly conservative but has served me well over many years in this plane.
(2) These planes don't carry ice well. Don't even think about it.
(3) I like to cruise at 2550 rpm. That should be around 120+ kt in the Cheetah. (I'm a bit slower) That should get you about 8 gph with the stock engine in good condition, properly leaned. If you have the HC STC, you will get 0.2-0.5 gph less at that setting. This is a good compromise between speed and range. If you need to stretch range, 2400 rpm will get you another 0.5 hour of endurance if you can stand the boredom.

Good luck. Sounds like fun, except for the icing potential this time of year.
 
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