Covid-19 shelter-in-place rules and GA

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by joycem137, Mar 20, 2020.

  1. joycem137

    joycem137 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The shelter-in-place order for California disallows all "non-essential travel" and asks folks to stay inside their homes except when necessary to go outside. We are permitted to go outside for "outdoor activities" such as walking around the neighborhood and such, so long as we observe the 6 foot "physical distancing" rules. I know at least one person got fined $400 for not observing that last bit.

    So in that mess... Do you think flying GA recreationally is permitted? If I go to the airport and go flying by myself in my own plane, I don't need to interact with anyone and I'll definitely be at least 6 feet away from folks at all times. The closest I'll get is the fueler, but I can ask them to refuel the day before I'm even considering flying.

    I'd especially love if anyone has a more precise legal understanding of this. My insurance company just sent out an email to its customers arguing that flight schools should be permitted to stay open as critical infrastructure as defined under the Department of Homeland Security's Cyber Security and Infrastructure Security Agency definitions of critical infrastructure.
     
  2. Tusayan

    Tusayan Pre-Flight

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    The California “order” is a request, phrased and carefully delivered to make it seem like law over individual behavior... which it isn’t. Beyond that, Federal authorities (e.g. FAA ATC) will have zero interest in state business.
     
  3. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    dont know about flights school, but my avionics shop just told me that he has confirmed that his shop is essential service. now the shelter in place .... well good point and logical, but that doesnt mean anything
     
  4. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    while thats true... you are driving to airport, you get pulled over and the dude asks where are you going, you say airport to fly alone in my 40 year old whatever... the question is .... will he fine you or not
     
  5. DFH65

    DFH65 Pattern Altitude

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    Fine you based on what? What law?
     
  6. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Some flight schools in Florida are still in operation. Simulators are being disinfected after each use. As for flying,it would be hard to keep six ft separation. So solo is the way to go.
     
  7. NoHeat

    NoHeat En-Route

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    Aircraft maintenance is essential.

    And the FARs allow pilot to do certain maintenance. So you're headed to the airport to do maintenance, like maybe check the tire pressure, to be followed of course by a post-maintenance flight test.

    No problem.
     
  8. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    donno. OP mentioned someone got fined
     
  9. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    Largely a foregone conclusion in this hobby, 6-seater purchasing heel-clickers and their dreams of weekend trips with an eager family notwithstanding. :D TC

    #OneManWolfpack
     
  10. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    thats true generally in life
     
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  11. DFH65

    DFH65 Pattern Altitude

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  12. Tusayan

    Tusayan Pre-Flight

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    Excellent article, and by a Harvard law professor. Thanks, I’ve been looking for one like it.
     
  13. asicer

    asicer En-Route

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    "I'm going to get fuel." (don't say it's 100LL)
    "I'm going to get food." (don't say it's from the airport cafe a couple of cities away and don't say whether they're still operating)
     
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  14. Justin M

    Justin M Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I wonder too. I've always wanted to fly over Niagara Falls and tomorrow it will actually be sunny near Buffalo and Niagara.
     
  15. aftCG

    aftCG Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Why do you think you have to answer "the dude"?
     
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  16. farmrjohn

    farmrjohn Pre-takeoff checklist

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    This is from the Homeland Security CISA website, transportation section:

    The Transportation Systems Sector consists of seven key subsectors, or modes:

    • Aviation includes aircraft, air traffic control systems, and about 19,700 airports, heliports, and landing strips. Approximately 500 provide commercial aviation services at civil and joint-use military airports, heliports, and sea plane bases. In addition, the aviation mode includes commercial and recreational aircraft (manned and unmanned) and a wide-variety of support services, such as aircraft repair stations, fueling facilities, navigation aids, and flight schools.
     
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  17. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    Cuz the dude is wearing an uniform and they you see those lights you aren’t supposed to speed off?
     
  18. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route

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    Go buy a bag of dog food. Fly it to another airport and drop it off and call the local shelter to tell them you have a donation they can pick up (or take the courtesy car and drop it off yourself). If you get pulled over, tell them you were taking dog food to the dog shelter. Or do the same for clothing donation, fly to an airport with a nearby goodwill. Or food to the food bank. You fly, you serve, and you have an “out”. Triple win.
     
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  19. asicer

    asicer En-Route

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    Are dog shelters and Goodwill open during the shelter-in-place order?

    I can see the food bank staying open, though.
     
  20. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Pattern Altitude

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    So far as I've seen, everything is permitted. Although I don't live there, my company does trucking work in Illinois so I paid close attention to the press conference by the governor this afternoon as he announced their shelter in place order.

    During the Q&A session the question was asked (paraphrased) well what if I don't? He said well if police see you violating the order, they will ask you to please not violate the order. If you're a business let's say and you're violating the order, the police may go to the court and seek a cease and desist order. If you then violate the cease and desist order you could be fined and/or have your business license revoked.

    Seems like an order that doesn't have very sharp teeth. They're basically asking nicely but if you decide to keep your business open, there isn't much that's likely to happen to you outside of a fine or some court headaches. As a private citizen? Doesn't seem like they can touch you so long as you stay 6' away from anyone else, do whatever the 'eff you want.
     
  21. pdonahue

    pdonahue Pre-Flight

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    The shelter-in-place order that went into effect in my county on Tuesday (https://www.sccgov.org/sites/phd/Di...avirus/Pages/order-health-officer-031620.aspx) says: "Violation of or failure to comply with this Order is a misdemeanor punishable by fine, imprisonment, or both. (California Health and Safety Code §120295, et seq.)"

    Reading the California Health and Safety Code, it seems that:
    "When quarantine or isolation, either strict or modified, is established by a health officer, all persons shall obey his or her rules, orders, and regulations."
    and if you don't do that then:
    "Any person who violates Section 120130 or any section in Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 120175 , but excluding Section 120195 ), is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine of not less than fifty dollars ($50) nor more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by imprisonment for a term of not more than 90 days, or by both.  He or she is guilty of a separate offense for each day that the violation continued."

    That being said, the quarantine established by the health officer says that you are allowed to travel to get food or medicine or materials necessary to work from home (and many other things), you're allowed to travel to a park to go hiking, etc.

    I am not a lawyer.
     
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  22. BrianNC

    BrianNC En-Route

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    If that's the case, and I'm not saying it isn't, why are they 'deputizing' city workers to help enforce it and help keep people off the streets?

    L.A. Mayor Says He’ll Deputize City Bureaucrats to Enforce “Stay at Home” Order

    https://www.redstate.com/jenvanlaar...ity-bureaucrats-to-enforce-stay-at-home-order
     
  23. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Shelter-in-place is not quarantine. They can likely revoke business licenses and such, but it really doesn’t have any teeth to individuals. It’s not martial law, it’s a request.
     
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  24. Isosceles

    Isosceles Pre-Flight

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  25. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    Doesn't apply to any of us, None of the rules are law, who lives a ****.
     
  26. jimhorner

    jimhorner Line Up and Wait

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    Sure, you gotta stop for them, but in no way do you have to answer their questions. 5th amendment.
     
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  27. GrummanBear

    GrummanBear Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Meh, not exactly. If pulled over, you are required to provide identification and insurance if requested by officer. The only person who is required to provide info beyond that is the cop, who must tell you why they pulled you over (probable cause); no pc makes the stop illegal and subsequent charges or tickets moot. Courtesy with a uniform can go a long way...but you can politely decline to answer.
    -former cop
     
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  28. Warmi

    Warmi Pre-takeoff checklist

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    First of all you don’t have to answer any of his questions except stating your name and giving him your license.

    This whole “shelter at home” order is so vague and not really enforceable but then again, it doesn’t need to be - if all these “ you must this, you are required that , non essential travel shall be banned “ directives result in , say, 80% of people complying then that’s all they need in the first place.
     
  29. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    If you’re going up, at least start a TP smuggling ring with your pilot buddies.

    Treetop flyer. Bringing that Charmin for the black market slow and low.

    LOL! :)

    Edit: autocorrect thinks you should snuggle TP not smuggle it.
     
  30. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

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    One cannot be fined $400 for disobeying a 'request'.
     
  31. DFH65

    DFH65 Pattern Altitude

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    Can you document that? In order for it to be a misdemeanor it would need to have a basis in law. Not saying it doesn't by the way.
     
  32. DFH65

    DFH65 Pattern Altitude

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    Can they stop me from getting groceries? Can they tell me where to buy groceries? Can the tell me what route I need to take to the store? I live in a very rural area the local grocery often has not the greatest fresh food. The next closest decent grocery in any direction is at least 30 minutes away.

    ETA: not saying we shouldn't reduce contact with people but there is no reason on earth short of them shutting down the airspace that my wife and I shouldn't be able to drive to our hanger and take our plane out for a ride. There is no risk of exposure to anyone.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
  33. chemgeek

    chemgeek Cleared for Takeoff

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    In NY state airports are essential services, so we can fly and get fuel and maintenance, but flight instruction is not generally available. Puts a crimp in getting required flight reviews, IPCs, etc.
     
  34. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route

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    It’s not autocorrect, it’s predictive. You must type the word “snuggle” a lot, you softie.
     
  35. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route

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    True on Goodwill. I would think the dogs and cats need to be fed...or kilt :(
     
  36. CharlieD3

    CharlieD3 Line Up and Wait

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    Flight in a personal aircraft IS social distancing. EXTREME social distancing, enforced by the FARs.

    1000 feet vertically from a congested area.



    fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
     
  37. DFH65

    DFH65 Pattern Altitude

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    Glad I got my flight review done early it wasn't due until the end of March.
     
  38. asicer

    asicer En-Route

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    Does post #21 count?
     
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  39. Jim K

    Jim K Pre-takeoff checklist

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    One of the club planes I fly got released from annual! Put in a reservation for wednesday morning. I'll take my lysol wipes. Hoping the FBO remains open; they are on the list of 'essential infrastructure', so I'm guessing there will be someone there to run the gas truck.
     
  40. Shepherd

    Shepherd En-Route

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    Essential jobs include transportation.
    Flying counts.
    I flew Wednesday, I won't get a chance to fly until next Thursday because of weather.
    I'll "shelter in place" in the back seat of the Cub for a couple hours.