Cost expected from a Mooney M20

I am a little fuzzy on the details, but as I understand you can do a lot of the work yourself on your plane as long as the A&P signs off?

There's a relatively specific list of items an owner/pilot can do as preventive maintenance with no A&P involvement (lights, brakes, tires, replacing seat belts, fluid replenishment, oil changes, etc.). Outside that list, you can basically do whatever you are capable of provided that your A&P (or IA, as appropriate) inspects the work, signs off and returns the plane to service. Some mechanical ability, a willingness to research and learn, and an A&P that will do owner-assisted maintenance are, IMHO, key factors to keeping ownership affordable.

Certain items, primarily those involving the static system and the transponder, must be done by a repair station with the appropriate ratings. But the vast majority of the work can be done by an owner with a cooperative A&P.
 
There's a relatively specific list of items an owner/pilot can do as preventive maintenance with no A&P involvement (lights, brakes, tires, replacing seat belts, fluid replenishment, oil changes, etc.). Outside that list, you can basically do whatever you are capable of provided that your A&P (or IA, as appropriate) inspects the work, signs off and returns the plane to service. Some mechanical ability, a willingness to research and learn, and an A&P that will do owner-assisted maintenance are, IMHO, key factors to keeping ownership affordable.

Certain items, primarily those involving the static system and the transponder, must be done by a repair station with the appropriate ratings. But the vast majority of the work can be done by an owner with a cooperative A&P.

I'd imagine it would be tough to find an A&P that would do that type of stuff? Or is it somthing that's common?

A side note, I watched some videos on rebuilding a 6 cylinder lycoming engine and I would have never guessed they were that simple of a design.
 
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Ask around. That's how most things get done in aviation.

Like you're doing now.
 
I just recently ran the numbers on my C for last year. Everything included it cost me about $65/hr to fly. However, there are some caveats to that. I flew 340hrs in the plane last year, so that made the fixed costs per hour very small. Had I only flown 100hrs the costs would have been closer to $140/hr. That also does not include any savings towards an overhaul or maintenance fund, only actual dollars spent.

Insurance was $1600 last year, $1200 this year
Annual was $1800 last year, and $1300 this year (owner assist)
Tie down is $200/month
Fuel around here is expensive at roughly $5.50/gallon
I also had no unscheduled maintenance issues last year. NONE. I put tires on it and oil, but that's it.

Costs will vary greatly with location, how much you fly, and the condition of the particular plane. Mine happens to be pretty damn pristine aside from faded paint, so it's been very economical.
 
the hangar cost will vary substantially from region to region. $175/month for me, but there is a wait list at my airport.

Annuals will also vary. Mine is around $1k with no squawks, but I look for and fix stuff throughout the year. A local Mooney Service Center charges around $2k for a no squawk annual.
 
the hangar cost will vary substantially from region to region. $175/month for me, but there is a wait list at my airport.

Annuals will also vary. Mine is around $1k with no squawks, but I look for and fix stuff throughout the year. A local Mooney Service Center charges around $2k for a no squawk annual.

what's the benefit of paying double?
 
what's the benefit of paying double?

A Mooney cared for by a Mooney service center can claim a premium on sale and will be far more desirable. The Mooney centers know a lot of Mooney minutiae that are not common knowledge among airplane mechanics. They take more time and do more as well.
 
what's the benefit of paying double?
Search on "pencil whipped annual".
Do pull the interior?
Empty the fuel tanks for an inspection?
....

Some do owner assisted annuals, which can lower the cost. There is a LOT of inspection panels you need to remove, probably a few hundred screws.
 
Search on "pencil whipped annual".
Do pull the interior?
Empty the fuel tanks for an inspection?
....

Some do owner assisted annuals, which can lower the cost. There is a LOT of inspection panels you need to remove, probably a few hundred screws.

Dah, and about half of them are under the wing. I plan to invest in one of those wheels dolly things mechanics use. You own Mooney, you wind up rolling around on the hangar floor eventually.
 
Search on "pencil whipped annual".
Do pull the interior?
Empty the fuel tanks for an inspection?
....

Some do owner assisted annuals, which can lower the cost. There is a LOT of inspection panels you need to remove, probably a few hundred screws.

that makes sense. I have been looking and I don't see a mooney shop remotely close to me. The local guys to me are really familiar with Cessnas and Pipers. I may have to forget about the mooney.
 
that makes sense. I have been looking and I don't see a mooney shop remotely close to me. The local guys to me are really familiar with Cessnas and Pipers. I may have to forget about the mooney.

I wouldn't let that put you off the brand. My local shop got the world's worst mechanic, and I wound up going remotely for repairs. Found a guy less than an hour from here who maintains a number of the local Mooneys. Ask around, or ask on Mooneyspace. Odds are there is someone you can use not hat far away. Mooneys are a bit rare on the ground, but they aren't exotic. Moreover, they're just airplanes. They used most of the same systems found on just about all airplanes.
 
Do a search for Mooney owners in your area. You can look it up by state on the FAA website (see links below) and then see if you can track down the owners to ask who and where they get their maintenance done. The mechanic I used in Kansas maintained about 10 different Mooney's and knows them inside and out, but you won't find him listed anywhere online. He was found via recommendations from other owners. You'll need to interview mechanics to make sure you aren't being used as a training platform for them (can be said for any make/model out there as well).

934 M20E's came up here: http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/AcftRef_Results.aspx?Mfrtxt=MOONEY&Modeltxt=M20E&PageNo=1

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/acftref_inquiry.aspx

Cheers,
Brian
 
You definitely don't need a MSC, but occasional your A&P may be face with work they have never done on a Mooney or need a special tool, in these cases it's best to either go to a MSC or someone who very familiar with them, you don't want to pay for their education.
 
You definitely don't need a MSC, but occasional your A&P may be face with work they have never done on a Mooney or need a special tool, in these cases it's best to either go to a MSC or someone who very familiar with them, you don't want to pay for their education.
that's good to know, I may start a new thread, but are there any other aircraft that can do what a mooney does. I am mostly after a fast cruise and am not really concerned with fuel burn as much.
 
that's good to know, I may start a new thread, but are there any other aircraft that can do what a mooney does. I am mostly after a fast cruise and am not really concerned with fuel burn as much.

Most of the complex singles can match or exceed the Mooney M20's for speed. What they can't match are the simplicity and dependability of the Mooney systems. More stuff to take care of, and a couple extra cylinders to boot.
 
that's good to know, I may start a new thread, but are there any other aircraft that can do what a mooney does. I am mostly after a fast cruise and am not really concerned with fuel burn as much.
For $/knot, Mooney is first choice. Other fast planes Cirrus 22T, Cessna Corvalis/400, Piper Mirage/Matrix, Velocity RG, Meyers 200D, Diamond 50/42.
 
Most of the complex singles can match or exceed the Mooney M20's for speed. What they can't match are the simplicity and dependability of the Mooney systems. More stuff to take care of, and a couple extra cylinders to boot.

That's what I liked about the mooney, was that it had the 4 cylinder, strong gear and simple systems. I used the FAA tool posted earlier and there are probably over 20 Mooneys within an hour of driving from me. So, those guys must be getting their service from somewhere.
 
For $/knot, Mooney is first choice. Other fast planes Cirrus 22T, Cessna Corvalis/400, Piper Mirage/Matrix, Velocity RG, Meyers 200D, Diamond 50/42.

I really like the knot per dollar aspect. I would plan on keeping the Mooney for a long time until I could move to a 6 seater single like a Saratoga. My dream plane is somthing like a TBM 850. One can wish.
 
Search on "pencil whipped annual".
Do pull the interior?
Empty the fuel tanks for an inspection?
....

Some do owner assisted annuals, which can lower the cost. There is a LOT of inspection panels you need to remove, probably a few hundred screws.

Lol, paying more doesn't mean jack.

Many people feel better paying more, based on demographics and the proper insertion of the right words like "safety" some folks will give their own mothers away.
Also plenty of mechanics who are great at finding busy work which they can bill out and sell as going above and beyond.

Frankly you're better off with a owner assist annual with a APIA who a type club recommends. I trust and hire the man, not the company he works for.
 
I really like the knot per dollar aspect. I would plan on keeping the Mooney for a long time until I could move to a 6 seater single like a Saratoga. My dream plane is somthing like a TBM 850. One can wish.

You do realize that the "M" there was Mooney?

I have the one piece belly, which has a low count compared to the multi piece parts original to the plane,,so there are only 52 screws there. The wings have 20 & 30, and I think there are another 40 or so in the tail, below the horizontal stabilizer.
 
You do realize that the "M" there was Mooney?

I have the one piece belly, which has a low count compared to the multi piece parts original to the plane,,so there are only 52 screws there. The wings have 20 & 30, and I think there are another 40 or so in the tail, below the horizontal stabilizer.

I just looked up the history and that was pretty cool, I didn't know that.

Removing screws seems like an easy task that saves a ton on labor.
 
Take out a bunch of screws laying on your back, and sitting hunched uncomfortably on a chair or roll around stool. When finished, out them all back in. My 3-blade prop spinner has 27 screws, then there's the doghouse under the cowl that must be opened up to access the spark plugs. Oh, yeah, there are eight ignition wires and eight spark plugs. Did I mention the cowling itself? Thankfully there are only four screws in the cowl along with 25-30 dzus fasteners.

Work with the mechanic and learn to clean, gap and test the spark plugs. Don't forget anti seize when reinstalling them.

Find the grease fittings on the gear--eight in each main leg and eleven on the nose. Grease the prop blades too.

When he's done inspecting, lubricate everything inside the panels as you put the panels back on. I put Teflon washers under every screw that doesn't have a metal washer. Buy some extras and replace any screw whose head is buggered up by spinning screw guns, or that have been cross-threaded and are hard to screw in. In a couple of years, you'll know the plane, what shape it's in and what to watch out for. Every year, my mechanic lets me do more and more of the work; because it's his license and livelihood on the line, you can only do what he trusts you to do, and can verify himself. But it's very satisfying every year.
 
What he said. Most of the stuff you do on airplanes is really simple. Lots of it is uncomfortable, rolling around on the ground a squeezing into uncomfortable places. But even a ham-anded mechanic like me can do it. Disassembly is a good example. Its just screws. It will take a few hours to get them all out. You can pay your mechanic to do it or you can do it. I don't know about you guys, but I truly well and hate paying a mechanic to do something I can do perfectly well myself.
 
Take out a bunch of screws laying on your back, and sitting hunched uncomfortably on a chair or roll around stool. When finished, out them all back in. My 3-blade prop spinner has 27 screws, then there's the doghouse under the cowl that must be opened up to access the spark plugs. Oh, yeah, there are eight ignition wires and eight spark plugs. Did I mention the cowling itself? Thankfully there are only four screws in the cowl along with 25-30 dzus fasteners.

Work with the mechanic and learn to clean, gap and test the spark plugs. Don't forget anti seize when reinstalling them.

Find the grease fittings on the gear--eight in each main leg and eleven on the nose. Grease the prop blades too.

When he's done inspecting, lubricate everything inside the panels as you put the panels back on. I put Teflon washers under every screw that doesn't have a metal washer. Buy some extras and replace any screw whose head is buggered up by spinning screw guns, or that have been cross-threaded and are hard to screw in. In a couple of years, you'll know the plane, what shape it's in and what to watch out for. Every year, my mechanic lets me do more and more of the work; because it's his license and livelihood on the line, you can only do what he trusts you to do, and can verify himself. But it's very satisfying every year.

that sounds like a job that would benefit from those nice adjustable floor creepers. So, basically it's just removing panels and reinstalling them and then having the A&P inspect and lube the parts?

I am really impressed with the amount of grease fittings on the gear, wow
 
What he said. Most of the stuff you do on airplanes is really simple. Lots of it is uncomfortable, rolling around on the ground a squeezing into uncomfortable places. But even a ham-anded mechanic like me can do it. Disassembly is a good example. Its just screws. It will take a few hours to get them all out. You can pay your mechanic to do it or you can do it. I don't know about you guys, but I truly well and hate paying a mechanic to do something I can do perfectly well myself.

that reminds me of working on boats. Nothing like snaking yourself into a bilge to replace pumps.
 
that sounds like a job that would benefit from those nice adjustable floor creepers. So, basically it's just removing panels and reinstalling them and then having the A&P inspect and lube the parts?

I am really impressed with the amount of grease fittings on the gear, wow

Pretty much. I just did mine. My APIA worked my plane in to his schedule and had me doing most of the work since he knows I can. Since he was pretty busy I ended up spending a bunch of time inspecting and cleaning myself while waiting for him to finish other jobs in the shop and do his own inspecting. I actually spent about an hour on my creeper (I brought my own) working the gear up and down by hand just to see how all the mechanisms work. It was a rather satisfying process.
 
Pretty much. I just did mine. My APIA worked my plane in to his schedule and had me doing most of the work since he knows I can. Since he was pretty busy I ended up spending a bunch of time inspecting and cleaning myself while waiting for him to finish other jobs in the shop and do his own inspecting. I actually spent about an hour on my creeper (I brought my own) working the gear up and down by hand just to see how all the mechanisms work. It was a rather satisfying process.
I need to find me a guy like that.
 
You just need to get to know them. Mine didn't let me do anything but pull the cowling at first, but we got to chatting about what I do for a living (building race trucks) and over time he's let me do more and more.
 
This sure was an informative thread. Thanks to Mr. coloradobluesky, Bill, LD, and others for providing actual numbers. Paying $200/month for a tiedown is insane, however. I didn't realize prices like that existed even in worst areas of the country. I shudder to think what a hangar spot might cost there.
 
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