midcap
Pattern Altitude
Trying to get an idea of ownership costs. For you guys who own Mooneys how much are the cost running you on an annual basis. Also, what about unexpected costs, overhauls, avionics repair etc. Thanks.
M20what?
Fixed Costs:
Insurance $1000
Hangar $3600
Annual $1000
Hourly Costs
Fuel $40
Maintenance $20 (biggest unknown)
Depreciation (engine time etc) $20
So in this example its $5600 + 80 per hour. A 100 hour year would be $13600. The $20 per hour depreciation is not in your cash flow. You pay for that when you sell it for less than you bought if for.
M20J.
12k a year sounds terribly low. I've been looking at a plane purchase too and the people I have been talking to are telling me 150 hours a year is going to run me somewhere close to 30k a year. Maybe I'm talking to the wrong people. I also live where hangars are upwards of $500, pricier gas, and I am also looking at m20k's and bonanzas but still... That's crazy low
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My C runs 9 gph; realistic fuel burn for a J is 11-11.5 gph if LOP. Multiply by hours flown. My hangar here is >$200/month, where I had paid $100 before moving. Find out what they rent for where you are. Figure Garmin GPS data is $500-600 annually for one, more for two, more yet for a GTN.
Insurance will vary depending in your experience, retract time, IFR rating, etc. mine was sky high as a 62-hour pilot when I bought half; at 100 hours in type, it fell by 50%; when I finally finished up Instrument training it fell another 30%, and has been dropping slowly. It's under $1000 now.
Oil changes need to be added in. Check supply prices at Spruce, I do my own, that's all it costs. I pick up my stuff at Spruce, I can fly there for what they charge to ship two cases of oil, so I do. Let's me look around, take the wife to lunch, etc.
Then add whatever subscriptions you want: EFB, charts, sectionals, Stratus, XM, etc.
That's it for me. Big ticket items like tank reseals, engine OH, etc. must be saved for at some point. You can set some aside periodically, dedicate an investment fund, or shop for a loan when needed.
Some costs are fixed--hangar, insurance, GPS data, charts, annual. These costs do not rise if you fly more, nor do they fall if you fly less. Direct operating expenses are pretty much fuel and oil on an hourly basis. How often do you change oil? 25 hour intervals will cost twice as much per hour as 50 hour intervals.
Owner-assisted annuals not only save money, but they teach you about your plane, let you see the condition of many of it's parts and systems, and give you confidence in how well it will perform.
Insurance $1100
Fuel 8gal/hr...check your area for fuel costs, check hangar costs as well.
Annual $2600, $1800 is fixed price, plus $800 in repairs, this from a MSC, probably would be cheaper with local shop but I needed a few Mooney specific items to look at.
Everything else is line with other comparable aircraft.
I've been told to take oil samples starting around mid-time. I'm at 738 in the tach now, so another two or three years . . . But if you're shopping for a plane, ask for the last 2-3 years worth so you can look for trends. When you buy a plane, keep those records!
I can't give a full evaluation since I've only owned my M20C since August. One thing I can say is that my Mooney will have the least expensive maintenance costs of just about any complex single of its vintage. Its a Lycoming 0-360, on of the more bulletproof airplane engines. Johnson bar gear and hydraulic flaps are fairly low-maintenance systems. What really drives Mooney maintenance up is just getting all those #$#$#%^!! screws off. But that you can do yourself.
that's what I like to hear. That's also really how I got my eye on an M20. I was looking for a fast, efficient 4 seater that wasn't going to nickle and dime me to death.
Please define "fast".
I've had a M20J for three years and never had a $1000 annual. Cheapest was $2400, and last year was $3600 (encoding altimeter needed work, got a static system check and transponder check). This, with a plane the mechanic describes as a "real nice airplane".
Insurance is costing me $1400.
My hangar (fully enclosed is $220 / month)
Property tax is running $1000 or so.
I burn 13.5 gph, so multiply by whatever your fuel costs are (I run around at 75% power, rich of peak).
It's pricey. If I had to make a loan payment on top of it, I wouldn't have done it.
That seems spendy. And I'm sure your mechanic thinks it's a nice plane, those 1k annual planes suck :wink2:
I'm about 1k a year annual for my 300hp amphib, which has a lot more going on compared to most Ms, all the M20s I've seen around the airport arnt getting major work done all the time, couple I knew if were 1kish annuals.
Just comes down to getting a real prebuy by a professional APIA and doing your own mx with a honest APIA
that's what I like to hear. That's also really how I got my eye on an M20. I was looking for a fast, efficient 4 seater that wasn't going to nickle and dime me to death.
Get RV-10.150kts or better.
Get RV-10.
My C runs 9 gph; realistic fuel burn for a J is 11-11.5 gph if LOP. Multiply by hours flown.
.
A cheap RV 10 costs three times my rather spanky Mooney.
A short-body Mooney is not really a 4-seater for contemporary people, even if 2 are children. You can get 3 into a 201 and have fuel for 3 hours, maybe even take a toothbrush with you.
You have to shoot for a Bonanza if you want to move kids around. Of something less common. My first manager has a Bellanca Viking, my pre-previous manager has Comanche. Both transport their kids around.
Another guy I know who has a teenager with him often flies a Tiger. It's a bit slower than Mooney, of course, but it beats a Skyhawk by a pretty good margin, and it has a fixed gear.
A cheap RV 10 costs three times my rather spanky Mooney.
Steingar's estimation is about correct - a good RV-10 is a $120k airplane. But $75k will get into into an M20J, just avionics aren't going to be great. For the record, I don't have one yet.Yeah I really can't see spending more that 75k tops for a plane at the moment.
Steingar's estimation is about correct - a good RV-10 is a $120k airplane. But $75k will get into into an M20J, just avionics aren't going to be great. For the record, I don't have one yet.
Fuel flow aside, Mooney M20J costs depend a lot on the pilot. If you can do a lot/all maintenance on your own and have a cooperative A&P and IA to back you up, the cost savings are huge. And you know your airplane.
A lot depends on luck...fuel tank leaks for example. On Thursday I went to start the plane and the mixture knob, vernier barrel and a few broken strands of wire pulled out in my hand. With an international trip scheduled for Saturday morning I had the new part charge $350 plus the overnight air charge to pay. That's the way it is sometimes.
I do and have done oil analyses every oil change since overhaul (about 1500 hours now). Why? I fly hard IFR, night, day, over mountains, over water, whatever.
An M20J properly flown shouldn't have maintenance costs any different than B, C or P planes. Then take the speed and fuel economy which are better. They are great IFR platforms and if you get up high can go a long way. If that fits your mission and you are comfortable in them (as most who have actually been in one are), an M20J is a great choice.
Talking fuel flow is MEANINGLESS without giving an altitude. This picture is yesterday flying into Guatemala at 12,000' (13,725' density altitude). The 7.3 gph is at ~5dF LOP, wide open throttle. There was a little headwind, so the TAS was about 148kts. Again, fuel flow without all this info is MEANINGLESS.
Rant off.
A lot depends on luck...fuel tank leaks for example.
Midcap, you are a prime candidate for doing your own MX. Nothing that special. However working space in a Mooney is tight in many places. Smaller hands help. Get a parts manual and service manual for the M20J and the same for the Lycoming. Finding the right A&P is the key.