Concealed Handgun License

TangoWhiskey said:
OK, first of all, what's the "W" in CCW?

Andrew, I've found an instructor in Keller I intend to use; I'm thinking about getting my CC permit with my wife.

I need to start another thread and talk about how to pick that first handgun... what to stay away from, what to consider, etc. Or, just go up and visit with Joyce Wilson and purchase two of her fine firearms. ;-)
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That would be weapon.

Looking forward to your thread!
 
Anthony said:
If you have a PA CCW permit you may legally open carry in the City of Philadelphia, although many LEO's don't know the law. There was a recent case were an individual was legally open carrying in Philly and harassed by police, and taken into custody. He was released, and issued an apology. Philly cops then got mandatory training on legal OC.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/s...arass-threaten-shoot-man-legally-carrying-gun
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Wow, the audio from that encounter was ... educational. Is it typical for cops swear that much during encounters with civilians, or is that just a Philly thing?
 
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Anthony said:
If you have a PA CCW permit you may legally open carry in the City of Philadelphia, although many LEO's don't know the law. There was a recent case were an individual was legally open carrying in Philly and harassed by police, and taken into custody. He was released, and issued an apology. Philly cops then got mandatory training on legal OC.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/s...arass-threaten-shoot-man-legally-carrying-gun
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This guy referred to Directive 137; he may not have realized that while it does allow him to open carry, it also allows LEOs to detain him, remove his weapon from his person until they validate his right to carry concealed (or open):

From Directive 137 said:
3. IN PHILADELPHIA, UNLIKE ANY OTHER PART OF THE STATE, FOR
ANY PERSON TO LAWFULLY, OPENLY AND VISIBLY CARRY A
FIREARM, THAT PERSON MUST HAVE A CONCEALED CARRY
FIREARMS LICENSE. SO, IN PHILADELPHIA, IF A PERSON HAS A
VALID CONCEALED CARRY FIREARMS LICENSE, HE OR SHE CAN
LEGALLY CARRY A FIREARM EITHER OPEN AND VISIBLE OR
CONCEALED.

4. AN OFFICER ENCOUNTERING A PERSON CARRYING A FIREARM
OPENLY IN PHILADELPHIA SHOULD FOR THE SAFTEY OF PUBLIC
INVESTIGATE AS A POSSIBLE VUFA VIOLATION.

A. SINCE A SEPARATE LICENSE IS REQUIRED IN PHILADELPHIA
AND IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANY OFFICER TO KNOW WHO DOES
AND DOES NOT HAVE A VALID CONCEALED CARRY LICENSE, IT
IS ENTIRELY REASONALBE FOR OFFICERS TO TEMPORARILY
DETAIN AND INVESTIGATE ANY INDIVIDUAL CARRYING A
FIREARM EXPOSED TO DETERMINE IF THE PERSON IS
OPERATING WITH THE LAW.

B. IMMEDIATLEY SEIZE ANY FIREARMS FOR OFFICER SAFETY
DURING THE STOP AND UNLOAD THE FIREARMS IF POSSIBLE,
BUT ONLY IF IT CAN BE DONE SAFELY.

C. A 75-48A MUST BE COMPLETED AND THE BASIS FOR THE STOP
WOULD BE A “POSSIBLE VUFA VIOLATION”


D. ONCE THE OFFICER RECEIVES CONFIRMATION THAT THE
CONCEALED CARRY LICENSE IS VALID, AND THERE ARE NO
OTHER OFFENSE OR VIOLATIONS BEING INVESTIGATED,
OFFICERS SHOULD RETURN THE FIREARM AND AMMUNITION
BACK TO THE INDIVIDUAL AT THE END OF THE STOP.
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Yes, the can verify his CCW permit, but I believe he produced it right up front, and then the still hassled, and took him in for booking.
 
Anthony said:
Yes, the can verify his CCW permit, but I believe he produced it right up front, and then the still hassled, and took him in for booking.
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After he was lippy with the officers and argumentative ( while at gunpoint) , they finally got it all worked out and never took him anywhere. They never booked him for anything. It wasnt until his audio went viral , did they come looking for him. A few days after the incident.


There is a whole thread that he posted over on a website . I don't wanna link it without knowing if it is within this forums rules to do that and I'm not in a position to read it right now. Look on PAFOA dot org , under the open carry section. His username is vipergts xxxxx.
 
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TangoWhiskey said:
Wow, the audio from that encounter was ... educational. Is it typical for cops swear that much during encounters with civilians, or is that just a Philly thing?
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Here in Ohio they how and when to swear in the academy.

When dealing with an armed suspect the use of profane language is often helpful in conveying the point that you mean business.

You don't walk up to grany and say "how the f--- you doing" but "put your f---ing hands up" or "drop the f---ing gun" are fine (and encouraged often times)
 
Anthony said:
Yes, the can verify his CCW permit, but I believe he produced it right up front, and then the still hassled, and took him in for booking.
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As SHOULD be the cop right. And as soon as the permit is confirmed all party's move on.
 
Skylane81E said:
Here in Ohio they how and when to swear in the academy.

When dealing with an armed suspect the use of profane language is often helpful in conveying the point that you mean business.

You don't walk up to grany and say "how the f--- you doing" but "put your f---ing hands up" or "drop the f---ing gun" are fine (and encouraged often times)
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I'd think that by drawing their guns on the guy, the cops did enough to convey the point that they meant business. In that case, the profanity really just makes them look unprofessional.
 
Having seen the crap those cops in Philthy has to do with, I can see how they are callased and treat EVERYONE the same. I have a good friend who just retired from Reading PD. Having been a former dispatcher for Berks County and answering the 911 calls for Reading , I can only imagine how they are in person , and Philly is worse.
 
dell30rb said:
I'd think that by drawing their guns on the guy, the cops did enough to convey the point that they meant business. In that case, the profanity really just makes them look unprofessional.
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You would be supprised, many people just think that holding people at gunpoint is what cops do. It's just another tactic they are taught.

Not saying that it is right in this case but if you cross a cop around here expect f bombs to fall.
 
dell30rb said:
I'd think that by drawing their guns on the guy, the cops did enough to convey the point that they meant business. In that case, the profanity really just makes them look unprofessional.
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You'd be surprised at what people don't see in a stressful encounter.

I did some force-on-force training at TDI (here in Ohio, though they teach folks from all over the world). In one of the scenarios, where you are using airsoft guns, a "bad guy" is in your house and comes around the corner towards you. It took me several seconds, an eternity in a situation like that, to even NOTICE the airsoft gun in his hand - I was too busy shouting commands.

A gun is not a megaphone. A gun is not a billboard. A gun is a tool to defend yourself in the most dire extreme, period. It is ill-suited for almost any other task.

BTW - the best concealed carry forum on the net is here:
http://ohioccwforums.org/
 
As a cop, sometimes the only language the thugs you encounter understand is profane language. Do I use it all the time, no. Have I used it and been understood, yes. It can be a useful tool. I encourage all law-abiding citizens to exercise your rights guaranteed to you under the Constitution and under law.
 
dell30rb said:
I'd think that by drawing their guns on the guy, the cops did enough to convey the point that they meant business. In that case, the profanity really just makes them look unprofessional.
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I bet if the carrier had dropped to his knees as originally instructed, the cop wouldn't have started with the swearing at him to make his "I mean business" point.

How many people walk around with a voice recorder already running? It seems plausible that the gentleman was indeed "looking for" an encounter he could record...
 
TangoWhiskey said:
I bet if the carrier had dropped to his knees as originally instructed, the cop wouldn't have started with the swearing at him to make his "I mean business" point.

How many people walk around with a voice recorder already running? It seems plausible that the gentleman was indeed "looking for" an encounter he could record...
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I have to agree , but that is what all the "oc'ers" do here. That is what is preached to them . They know there is typically an encounter and they record 24/7 when out . Some of these guys are some real wack jobs and I really wonder if they are in the right frame of mind to carry.

You carry for protection not to make a damn political statement.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
I bet if the carrier had dropped to his knees as originally instructed, the cop wouldn't have started with the swearing at him to make his "I mean business" point.

How many people walk around with a voice recorder already running? It seems plausible that the gentleman was indeed "looking for" an encounter he could record...
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True. However, as a legal carrier, he should not have to drop to his knees in the first place, as long as the gun stays holstered and he provides his permit and ID immediately upon request. And, if they asked him to turn over his weapon, he does that too, with no fuss.

Is the law being upheld if you are cussed at and forced onto your knees at gunpoint every time you exercise your legal right to carry in that fashion? I don't think so.

I didn't listen to the audio but from what I understand he provided his permit immediately and the only time he gave them any lip was after they started swearing at him and demanding he get on his knees.
 
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dell30rb said:
True. However, as a legal carrier, he should not have to drop to his knees in the first place, as long as the gun stays holstered and he provides his permit and ID immediately upon request. And, if they asked him to turn over his weapon, he does that too, with no fuss.

Is the law being upheld if you are sworn at and forced onto your knees at gunpoint every time you exercise your legal right to carry in that fashion? I don't think so.

I didn't listen to the audio but from what I understand he provided his permit immediately and the only time he gave them any lip was after they started swearing at him and demanding he get on his knees.
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You have to listen to the audio. He didn't furnish it immediately, he kept arguing with them about being held at gun point and about not getting on his knees. He wasn't at gun point until he got lippy with the cop first.

The interaction started with the officer saying " hey junior" to get his attention. It was immediately followed up with " excuse me" or something along those lines in a rather arrogant tone. The officer that was cursing was second on scene ....

Yes he was legally carrying BUT in Philly it is required to have a LTCF . So I can see both sides here. But tend to side with the PD to a point with this one. I have watched that guy from the time he first started on those forums and the stupid crap he bragged about doing for about two years up until that incident. There is a bit of history with him. Constant altercations with neighbors, intox while carrying , and more unpleasant interactions with neighbors etc.
 
cavmedic said:
Yes he was legally carrying BUT in Philly it is required to have a LTCF.
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He did have a valid CCW permit (LTCF), but I agree, he could have handled better. My Grandfather was a Philly detective. You just don't give those cops ANY grief. If they think you're a trouble maker, bad stuff WILL happen. If you are respectful it helps A LOT.
 
I have a permit and carry anyplace it's practical.

I've stopped carrying it when flying across state lines. SIK is posted for no firearms, I believe the sign said state law prohibited it.

Sometimes (like at GYM) there is really no way to keep it with you and leaving it in the car isn't really good either.

I haven't tried dancing with it. The local dance is in a church hall with a church school in an adjacent building.

Hope I never have to use it. I hit the range min every 6 months for practice. Nice to have if I need it.
 
Anthony said:
If you have a PA CCW permit you may legally open carry in the City of Philadelphia, although many LEO's don't know the law. There was a recent case were an individual was legally open carrying in Philly and harassed by police, and taken into custody. He was released, and issued an apology. Philly cops then got mandatory training on legal OC.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/s...arass-threaten-shoot-man-legally-carrying-gun
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Right -- and that would be my concern: Strolling down Market, getting the Bum Rush by a dozen fresh LEOs, spending an afternoon in the slammer -- for what?
 
cavmedic said:
The interaction started with the officer saying " hey junior" to get his attention. It was immediately followed up with " excuse me" or something along those lines in a rather arrogant tone.
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I'm guessing the officer was in uniform? Can't blame the guy for being less than polite if the officer was rude to begin with. He should still cooperate fully of course. Don't know if he was, still have not listened to it.
 
I carry x2 24/7 except while at work, church or my son's school. And I know Wayne was joking about the AR in the trunk, but mine's in the back of my truck more than it's in the safe at home.
 
Oddly enough Texas is one of the more restrictive states about gun control. Kinda weird considering our reputation as gun nut hicks... You'd think we'd have rules similar to Montana or Wyoming, but no such luck. I have a chl and carry pretty much 24/7. Even before I had my chl I kept a gun in my truck at all times.

I used to know the regs, but off hand does anyone know what the FARs has to say about guns on board for part 91?
 
Flybytex said:
Oddly enough Texas is one of the more restrictive states about gun control. Kinda weird considering our reputation as gun nut hicks... You'd think we'd have rules similar to Montana or Wyoming, but no such luck. I have a chl and carry pretty much 24/7. Even before I had my chl I kept a gun in my truck at all times.

I used to know the regs, but off hand does anyone know what the FARs has to say about guns on board for part 91?
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I briefly searched them and also did some other searches on the webs previously. The only thing I was able to come up with was basically up to the PIC and applicable rules of the state you are in.
 
Why do i carry a gun, because a cop is to heavy.

This could cause a problem....
 
Gerhardt said:
I carry x2 24/7 except while at work, church or my son's school. And I know Wayne was joking about the AR in the trunk, but mine's in the back of my truck more than it's in the safe at home.
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The school and work I can understand, but what is your reasoning for not carrying at church ? Do they prohibit it , don't want to scare someone if it prints or they find out ?
 
In Ohio for one there is no carry in houses of worship unless they post a sign specifically allowing it.
 
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