common carrier definition

[lucius]

AC 120-12A specifies four elements in defining a common carrier (it's not defined in any FARs):

(1) a holding out of a willingness to
(2) transport persons or property
(3) from place to place
(4) for compensation or hire

But what is the point of #3? How else could one transport a person or property other than from place to place? Since AC 120-12A is written by lawyers and therefore every word matters, there must be a reason for #3. But what is the reason?

 

[midwestpa24]

Sightseeing flights that start and end at the same airport are not considered a carrier.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Yeah, it is sort of implicit but it’s just language that covers a fuller definition.

But remember that 120-12A was written several thousand years ago. It is woefully out of date, especially in its incorrect implication that”private carriage” is Part 91.

 

[RyanB]

Please review FAR119.1(e). Lots of activities that aren’t “from place to place”.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Please review FAR119.1(e). Lots of activities that aren’t “from place to place”.

I guess that depends on how you define "place to place." It doesn't say "from place to different place," or, to use FAR jargon, "from place to a place other than the 'original point of departure.'" 119.1(e) isn't a limit on "places." Just activities which are exempt from Part 135 requirements.

Besides, wouldn't you consider ferry flights or emergency mail service to be from place to place?

 

[brien23]

Alaska lodge guides still transport hunters and fishermen to their lodges by private planes and private pilots.
"Rules apply to flight operations conducted on behalf of guides or lodges in Alaska.
Generally, if the flight operations are conducted by the guide, lodge, or employees of the guide
or lodge, and the operations are incidental to providing guide services in the field, then they
may be conducted under Part 91 of the Federal Aviation Regulations and Part 119 and 135 does
not apply. The pilot(s) must still comply with Part 61 and 67 and the aircraft maintained in
accordance with Part 43."

 

[midlifeflyer]

Alaska lodge guides still transport hunters and fishermen to their lodges by private planes and private pilots.
"Rules apply to flight operations conducted on behalf of guides or lodges in Alaska.
Generally, if the flight operations are conducted by the guide, lodge, or employees of the guide
or lodge, and the operations are incidental to providing guide services in the field, then they
may be conducted under Part 91 of the Federal Aviation Regulations and Part 119 and 135 does
not apply. The pilot(s) must still comply with Part 61 and 67 and the aircraft maintained in
accordance with Part 43."

The famous Alaska exception. Very interesting legal and political history. Basically, these operations had been approved as "incidental" to the lodge/hunting/fishing package for 30 years before the Chief Counsel tried to stop it. The FAA may have been right from a reg standpoint and there was at least one lawsuit about it, which the FAA lost in the DC Circuit Court of Appeals. It eventually got fought out in Congress.

Not a complete summary, but there was an FAA InFO published about it this year.