Commercial privileges.

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philly3229

Filing Flight Plan
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phillyman
Hello all!

I am about to take my checkride for my commercial single engine land. Looking at what I can and cannot do for hire with the certificate, it appears that most all things carrying people or cargo for hire require a commercial operators certificate (with some exceptions : flight instruction, scenic flights etc). My question is on the web many people discuss how I could fly someone else to a location for compensation as long as I am not supplying the plane. Where in the regs is this rule? As I understand it the only things I can do for compensation without commercial operator certificate are the exceptions. I am just wondering where it says I am allowed to accept compensation and fly individuals places if they provide the plane ? Does this have to do with private carriage?
Thanks so much for your time.
 
Scenic flights? I didn't know you were required to have more or less than a CPL to do "scenic flying". :dunno:
 
I mean that I can do scenic flights for compensation without a commercial operators certificate. I will have my commercial LISCENSE. But what I can do for compensation without a commercial operators certificate is what I mean. One of the exceptions was a scenic flight writhing 25nm of departure airport or something.
 
61.133 covers your privileges and limitations. Part 135 would cover the "providing the plane" aspect, but I don't have an exact reference without looking at the FAR/AIM.
 
Actually, maybe it's 119.23 (with the 91.501(b) exceptions)? I'm hoping someone with more knowledge/experience will be along to set me straight.
 
Gotcha. Thanks for the input. I have just been reading everywhere online that I can fly for pay if the other individual provides the plane (I can do this without a commercial operators certificate). I do suspect it has something to do with private carriage.
 
You have to have a 135 certificate to fly people for hire beyond the 25 miles allowed in scenic flights.

Now if the person or entity you're flying owns the plane then it's not 135.
 
At my commercial oral, the DPE asked what priveleges the commercial certificate will give me. My answer: "People can pay me to fly their planes." He was satisfied with that.
 
ateamer said:
At my commercial oral, the DPE asked what priveleges the commercial certificate will give me. My answer: "People can pay me to fly their planes." He was satisfied with that.
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Pretty similar here, though I did get asked about a few scenarios to make sure I understood the "can't provide a plane and a pilot" situation. But I can honestly say I don't know for certain if I've cited the correct regs here, because I was taught the concept but not necessarily the source.
 
Scenics require a LOA from a FSDO nowadays.
 
All answers here are technically correct. If you're asking about serious commercial operations... It means you can apply to (and get hired) by a company that has an air carrier certificate. The privlidges and limitations on that certificate will vary.
 
You also didn't mention if you have an Instrument Rating. Even more limitations magically appear for the Commercial certificate, if you don't. Just mentioning it for completeness.
 
James331 said:
Scenics require a LOA from a FSDO nowadays.
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True, and this is a relatively recent change that many old timers are not aware of.

Depending on the FSDO, this can be a simple and pleasant two week paperwork drill or a royal pain in the ass.
 
philly3229 said:
Hello all!

I am about to take my checkride for my commercial single engine land. Looking at what I can and cannot do for hire with the certificate, it appears that most all things carrying people or cargo for hire require a commercial operators certificate (with some exceptions : flight instruction, scenic flights etc). My question is on the web many people discuss how I could fly someone else to a location for compensation as long as I am not supplying the plane. Where in the regs is this rule? As I understand it the only things I can do for compensation without commercial operator certificate are the exceptions. I am just wondering where it says I am allowed to accept compensation and fly individuals places if they provide the plane ? Does this have to do with private carriage?
Thanks so much for your time.
Click to expand...
I apologize for this being simplistic but I'm tied up with something that doesn't let me me more detailed.

In the 20,000 foot view, it has less to do with a specific reg, although the concepts are in Part 119. And the sometime complexity of the subject is the reason it isn't delved into that much on the commercial checkride. Even DPEs will have trouble with this one unless they have worked in the area (ask me how I know ;))

It has to do with the concept of being a "carrier" - a term that goes back at least to the stagecoach - and "transporting persons or property for compensation."

In the way the FAA deals with the issue, if the pilot and aircraft have the same source - it's an airplane the pilot owns or leases or the pilot works for a the company that owns it, it's transportation of persons or property. If the customer, not the pilot, provides the aircraft, it's not transportation and no operator certificate is required (generally speaking).

To use an example, you can be hired to fly my airplane to fly me around and I can pay you for it with only a commercial pilot certificate. But change that to flying my airplane to fly someone else or deliver someone else's widgets to another place for compensation, and it requires an commercial operator certificate.

Flying the corporate jet to fly company personnel (who don't pay for the flight) is Part 91 (commercial pilot certificate); Flying a charter to transport those same people for a fee is Part 135.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I apologize for this being simplistic but I'm tied up with something that doesn't let me me more detailed.

In the 20,000 foot view, it has less to do with a specific reg, although the concepts are in Part 119. And the sometime complexity of the subject is the reason it isn't delved into that much on the commercial checkride. Even DPEs will have trouble with this one unless they have worked in the area (ask me how I know ;))

It has to do with the concept of being a "carrier" - a term that goes back at least to the stagecoach - and "transporting persons or property for compensation."

In the way the FAA deals with the issue, if the pilot and aircraft have the same source - it's an airplane the pilot owns or leases or the pilot works for a the company that owns it, it's transportation of persons or property. If the customer, not the pilot, provides the aircraft, it's not transportation and no operator certificate is required (generally speaking).

To use an example, you can be hired to fly my airplane to fly me around and I can pay you for it with only a commercial pilot certificate. But change that to flying my airplane to fly someone else or deliver someone else's widgets to another place for compensation, and it requires an commercial operator certificate.

Flying the corporate jet to fly company personnel (who don't pay for the flight) is Part 91 (commercial pilot certificate); Flying a charter to transport those same people for a fee is Part 135.
Click to expand...


Thanks very much for the info. Makes sense. It can get a little tricky but I get the main concept. I appreciate your time and everyone else's time!
 
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