Commercial Multi - questions about checkride, etc...

Caramon13

Caramon13

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I start my AMEL commercial instruction on Monday night and to be proactive I scheduled the check-ride for the end of the month. No pressure right? :)

Going through all the materials it makes a lot of sense, but the whole engine out thing is starting to make me a little concerned. How severe is the yaw when the engine goes, how sluggish is the plane at Vmc or blueline? How does the "simulated failure" work? Does the DPE actually pull the throttle back and fail it or do you just do the flows? I know I'll probably get a lot of questions answered when I go fly Monday night.

I've read through some of the check-ride reports from folks on here and other places. I'm curious if your ride was REALLY difficult/intimidating and how you learned the flows along with any tips about Vmc/blueline/manuevers, etc.
 
Umm, you'll notice it. If the instructor's good, on your first flight he'll distract you and "kill" an engine (retard the throttle) and see how well you react. For training you'll do an actual engine shutdown, but most of the training an engine out is done with the throttle.
 
The commercial multi is one of the easier ones. Know single engine performance, factors affecting Vmc, weight and balance, two engine performance, systems, etc. I did a full engine shutdown on my my ride to a restart. For the single engine approach and landing we just simulated a failed engine
 
Don't worry about it. Once you do that first flight you will have all your questions answered.

My C-AMEL and MEI checkrides were probably the easiest and most enjoyable of any of mine. Have fun!
 
Thanks everyone! I'm actually really excited about it. I wasn't sure I would even be interested in doing it, but now that its scheduled I definitely want to see it through.

I was thinking of doing my MEI afterwards while the multi is still fresh in my mind, or if that doesn't work out, maybe picking up the odd multi-engine FO job here or there for time building. There's a couple opportunities down here now, but don't know if they'll last.
 
You will like it when you are flying and looking at one prop that is stopped. The multi engine training was the most fun and the quickest that I did. About the time you start feeling comfortable with the plane the checkride comes and you are finished.

My instructor complained that I enjoyed the emergency decent way too much.... but then again he should not have stayed out drinkin' so late....:)

You will feel the yaw but after a couple times it will feel normal. And after a couple hours of simulated engine out, one of your legs will feel a little shakey, but we all went through that.

Have fun and keep us up dated..!!!
 
Zeldman said:
You will like it when you are flying and looking at one prop that is stopped.
Click to expand...

You will want to get a picture of it.
You should get a picture of it.
Everybody gets a picture of it.
I have a picture of it.
 
Caramon13 said:
How severe is the yaw when the engine goes, how sluggish is the plane at Vmc or blueline? How does the "simulated failure" work? Does the DPE actually pull the throttle back and fail it or do you just do the flows?
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Yaw depends on speed and amount of drag. You'll notice it. If you add on instrument privileges it's sometimes a little more difficult to notice with only instrument references if simulated in a descending turn.

Sluggish? It's an airplane flying above stall speed, to tie it to something you know. Not really sluggish at all. Blue line on most is way above stall. Vmc it's still flying but you can't maintain directional control and it starts to go relatively quick. You'll be recovering before you have time to think about it.

Simulations are usually, and should be, pre-briefed as to how you'll run your flow. Usually the instructor will simulate a failure with throttle and you'll work your flow but won't push both throttles up. Simulating feather, I'll say to the student to pull the blue handle back an inch or so, and then I'll announce I'll set zero thrust from there. The first few times my hands will be nearby guarding against the wrong handle being pulled in the excitement but not making it too obvious. I'll give you more of a chance to kill me later. Ha. Kidding. Depends on the instructor and their confidence level.

Non-simulated will typically be done at a safe altitude. Instructor may pull mixture, or may sneak a hand down and shut off fuel when you're not paying attention.

You'll see when you start to run the performance numbers that there are some flight regimes (takeoff) where even a simulation is too risky. Some instructors will however figure out ways to give you a failure prior to a particular speed on the runway, or a loss of directional control which for all intents and purposes will look the same out the window and requires the same response. (Stop!)

RussR said:
You will want to get a picture of it.
You should get a picture of it.
Everybody gets a picture of it.
I have a picture of it.
Click to expand...

Hahaha. Yup. That first shutdown all MEIs know the student thinks they need to *do something* after the feather... so you look over and say, "Got your camera with you?" :) They both usually want a photo and it also gives their heart rate a minute or two to slow down. Heheh.

Then refocus on the restart checklist and they learn they don't have enough hands to fly the airplane AND restart the engine. Heh. And the juggling begins anew! :)
 
Caramon13 said:
I was thinking of doing my MEI afterwards while the multi is still fresh in my mind, or if that doesn't work out, maybe picking up the odd multi-engine FO job here or there for time building. There's a couple opportunities down here now, but don't know if they'll last.
Click to expand...

Understand that you're going to need 15 hours of PIC before you can take the MEI checkride so unless you're going to get that time relatively quick on your own dime it is probably going to be a little bit before you are eligible to take it.

As far as the multi add on rating goes, it's a pretty easy rating to get. Don't overthink this, I'd just show up at your first lesson and let your instructor be your guide. I'd bet that if you're an average pilot you'll probably be able to pass a checkride in 6-8 hours. Light twins are airplanes, and they fly like airplanes so other than being heavier, faster, having more power, and slightly more complex systems you really aren't flying something that different than your current single engine planes. Just remember that both engines are critical (you need both) on a typical light piston twin and that the airplane may not continue to fly on one engine. Being in Florida increases your odds that it will fly on one engine however.
 
Caramon13 said:
I start my AMEL commercial instruction on Monday night and to be proactive I scheduled the check-ride for the end of the month. No pressure right? :)

Going through all the materials it makes a lot of sense, but the whole engine out thing is starting to make me a little concerned. How severe is the yaw when the engine goes, how sluggish is the plane at Vmc or blueline? How does the "simulated failure" work? Does the DPE actually pull the throttle back and fail it or do you just do the flows? I know I'll probably get a lot of questions answered when I go fly Monday night.

I've read through some of the check-ride reports from folks on here and other places. I'm curious if your ride was REALLY difficult/intimidating and how you learned the flows along with any tips about Vmc/blueline/manuevers, etc.
Click to expand...
You will barely notice it. Not severe at all in training.

At the altitudes that most folks do engine out training these days and the fact that they are usually using low HP trainer twins, you won't likely experience a true loss of control. The CFI will either pull a throttle back or may shut off the fuel to one engine, but at altitude, the instructor typically has to block/limit rudde travel with their foot to achieve the loss of rudder control before stall.

If/when a true VMC roll happens, it happens fast and you end up on your back.
 
Brad Z said:
Umm, you'll notice it.
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Depends a bit on how the instructor imposes the failure.

True story: I've seen guys in the DC-3 fail to notice the engine failure imposed after liftoff. They were totally focused outside and the power loss was gradual enough that they just kept adding rudder without realizing what was happening.
 
RussR said:
You will want to get a picture of it.
You should get a picture of it.
Everybody gets a picture of it.
I have a picture of it.
Click to expand...

You mean like this?

6ac2b026db2a4ca6882c56a8ac0a6826.jpg


I didn't get one in the air. I was too busy.
 
Easiest rating evah. You're going to be standing around NOT getting your 15 PIC until the end of the month. If you're sharp you can nail it down in a weekend. What are you training in. Seminole/Duchess...noticeable but not scary or uncomfortable. Baron/310...get the nose and the wing down with a quickness.
 
NKTFlyer said:
Easiest rating evah. You're going to be standing around NOT getting your 15 PIC until the end of the month. If you're sharp you can nail it down in a weekend. What are you training in. Seminole/Duchess...noticeable but not scary or uncomfortable. Baron/310...get the nose and the wing down with a quickness.
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Seminole. I could have chosen to do it in a Baron, but I think the Seminole is the "go to" twin for the flight school I'm using. The other two flight schools near me use a Baron and a Seneca.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
The examiner for my multi ride shut the fuel off on one engine. He wasn't messing around. Good times
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Guess he was hoping the fuel selector would work when needed.
 
paflyer said:
How hard is it to find a guy who can wrench on radials?
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Not that hard. But the real trick is finding a shop that is reasonable about what they charge. My shop doesn't charge for 'learning'. In other words they don't charge for every minute spent working on it while they become more familiar with the engines.

Also, there are plenty of guys around the country you can call up or email and pick their brains when you run into a head scratcher.
 
paflyer said:
Guess he was hoping the fuel selector would work when needed.
Click to expand...
Using this logic we should never fly. I expect the engine to work when needed. I expect everything to work when needed for that matter.
 
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