Commercial Check Ride / Written

Caramon13

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Taking my Commercial Airplane exam tomorrow and have my Commercial ASEL check-ride at the end of the month.

As this is a big one for me, I'd love to get some input from folks on challenging questions, etc from your CPL ride. Sorta a "stump the chump" type of thing. I of course, will be happy to play the role of the "chump" (much like I do in real life) :).

I'm working on the maneuvers for two days in a row before the check ride and will probably go up before that point as well. Trying to take a few days off from work because this is a big one and I need all the prep-time possible for it.

Thanks!
 
The one question a remember from my commercial checkride, quite some time ago...

If you have two identical airplanes at the same altitude and location, one at minimum flying weight and the other at Maximum gross weight, which one will glider farther?

Brian
 
The one question a remember from my commercial checkride, quite some time ago...

If you have two identical airplanes at the same altitude and location, one at minimum flying weight and the other at Maximum gross weight, which one will glider farther?

Brian
Along the same lines but different. Two identical airplanes at the same power settings, altitude, and location. Both at the same weight. One at forward CG limit, one at aft CG limit. Which one is faster and why?

Okay, it was the DPE's hint of what he was going to include on the oral. Not he oral itself 'cause I canceled the ride. Long story.
 
The one question a remember from my commercial checkride, quite some time ago...

If you have two identical airplanes at the same altitude and location, one at minimum flying weight and the other at Maximum gross weight, which one will glider farther?

Brian

Spoiler alert, they both glide the same distance, the fat one just goes faster.

As for CPL, my initial was in a seaplane, but it was a easy ride, just a fancy PPL ride with tighter landing tolerances.
 
Know your aircraft systems well especially the landing gear and hit a constant speed prop works. Know what flying needs a 135 certificate and what doesn't. The commercial ride is all about how you finesse the plane and stay ahead of it. Make sure to be smooth as well. Think of if you are doing an aerial tour and you jerk the plane around. The pax aren't going to like that. Treat the DPE as your aerial tour customer. Overall it's an easy ride and I enjoyed mine
 
Know all of the VFR requirements for the different types of airspace and how to make sense of all of the magenta (Class E) on the sectional.
 
Going for my CPL in almost exactly a month, so I'm intrigued by this question and will gladly (and shamelessly) steal the knowledge shared here. ;-)
 
Was a while ago but I recall the examiner had various questions that might come up when working with different planes in different conditions:
Something isn't working on the plane how do you know if it's legal to fly without it?
How would you go about getting a ferry permit to move an un-airworthy plane? What information is needed?
What is the difference between a service bulletin and airworthiness directives? Who issues them and do you need to comply with them?
You need to add oil during a ferry flight and the airport doesn't have the grade the plane typically uses. Can you mix oil grades?
You're going into a very short field, what is the relation between the take off and landing distance of the plane?
 
The one question a remember from my commercial checkride, quite some time ago...

If you have two identical airplanes at the same altitude and location, one at minimum flying weight and the other at Maximum gross weight, which one will glider farther?

Brian

I think @James331 gave this one away for me, but I think my original guess without even thinking would be the heavier plane would glide less. Then I thought well, why should weight matter in this case if you are within tolerances (not PAST max gross). Glide distance should be the same in either case as long as you're able to maintain best glide (aren't loaded too far aft, etc). With a heavier plane you would have a higher stall speed though correct? So you'd have to a be a bit more conscious of load factor, etc.

Along the same lines but different. Two identical airplanes at the same power settings, altitude, and location. Both at the same weight. One at forward CG limit, one at aft CG limit. Which one is faster and why?

Okay, it was the DPE's hint of what he was going to include on the oral. Not he oral itself 'cause I canceled the ride. Long story.

I tried this out with myself in the Cherokee I used to own. Before counter-balancing the CG, it was pretty much full forward with me and another person. The more I balanced it out, the faster it went, BUT I noticed it was also a bit tricker to control. So I'd guess farther aft = faster but less "stable".

@jordane93: Thanks! The concept of a constant speed prop was alien to me before I even got into an Arrow, but the more I fly the more I actually really like it. I prefer manual transmissions though in cars and I work in IT so I'm a bit of a control freak anyway..

@Walboy : I have pretty much no chance of the DPE missing anything I do (or don't do). He's the same guy I flew with for my PPL and instrument so he already knows my tendencies heh..For inop equipment I'm trying to remember the acronym but it's "disabled", placarded and marked as such in the logs. If it's on a MEL or required by an AD or ATOMATOFLAMES FLAPS GRAB CARD, etc..then you'd need a ferry permit to get it to a repair shop which you can get from the local FSDO. I've been watching a few CPL videos and I have the King course which does seem to bring up a few scenarios, but yeah there are FAR more little details then I would have though about flying for hire.

@Taildragger: Thanks, yeah I think I should get a tattoo or something to help me remember the airspace cloud requirements at a minimum :)


Was a while ago but I recall the examiner had various questions that might come up when working with different planes in different conditions:
Something isn't working on the plane how do you know if it's legal to fly without it?
ATOMATOFLAMES, FLAPS, GRAB CARD, MEL, AD, Special requirements by the plane, probably missing one..

How would you go about getting a ferry permit to move an un-airworthy plane? What information is needed?

Thanks for reminding me to look that up:

There's a form, 8130-6 you can fill out for that.

1.) Purpose of the flight. 2.) Proposed itinerary. 3.) Essential crew required to operate the aircraft. 4.) The ways, if any, in which the aircraft does not comply with the applicable airworthiness requirements. 5.) Any other information, requested by the Administrator, considered necessary for the purpose of prescribing operating limitations.

1.) A current copy of the aircraft Airworthiness Certificate. 2.) A current copy of the aircraft Registration. 3.) Date of the last annual inspection (copy of that log book page) 4.) A copy of the last Aircraft Log Book entry, stating that this aircraft has been inspected and is in a safe condition to fly/ferry and that all applicable AD's have been complied with and or a listing of the AD's that have not been complied with, signed by an FAA certificated, A&P Mechanic or Part 145 Repair Station. Additional items that may be requested: 1.) A current copy of the front page of the aircraft and engine/s log book, with all entries completed, (i.e. Aircraft / Engine/s / Propeller/s Manufacture, Model, serial number, etc.). 2.) A current copy of the

What is the difference between a service bulletin and airworthiness directives? Who issues them and do you need to comply with them?

IIRC, AD's are must comply with immediately or within the time period specified to maintain airworthiness on the aircraft. Non compliance renders a plane unairworthy, they are issued by the FAA. Service bulletins I had to look up again. They are to notify you of modifications that can be made on an aircraft, from the manufacturer.

You need to add oil during a ferry flight and the airport doesn't have the grade the plane typically uses. Can you mix oil grades?

Yes, you can.

You're going into a very short field, what is the relation between the take off and landing distance of the plane?

Had to look this one up as well. I know the effects dry/soft/density altitude, etc have on the takeoff and landing distance, but didn't really consider how they relate to each other. I think I found part of the answer in the Pilots Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge:

The speed (acceleration and deceleration) experienced by any object varies directly with the imbalance of force and inversely with the mass of the object. An airplane on the runway moving at 75 knots has four times the energy it has traveling at 37 knots. Thus, an airplane requires four times as much distance to stop as required at half the speed.


Thanks guys..you are making me work and I appreciate it!
 
I think @James331 gave this one away for me, but I think my original guess without even thinking would be the heavier plane would glide less. Then I thought well, why should weight matter in this case if you are within tolerances (not PAST max gross). Glide distance should be the same in either case as long as you're able to maintain best glide (aren't loaded too far aft, etc). With a heavier plane you would have a higher stall speed though correct? So you'd have to a be a bit more conscious of load factor, etc.



I tried this out with myself in the Cherokee I used to own. Before counter-balancing the CG, it was pretty much full forward with me and another person. The more I balanced it out, the faster it went, BUT I noticed it was also a bit tricker to control. So I'd guess farther aft = faster but less "stable".

The tail plane has to provide less down force the farther aft the CG is so there is less total drag produced. As was said, the airplane gets more pitch sensitive as the CG moves aft and may appear less stable in pitch. Less drag means lower AoA, farther range or greater speed for the same power.

IIRC, AD's are must comply with immediately or within the time period specified to maintain airworthiness on the aircraft. Non compliance renders a plane unairworthy, they are issued by the FAA. Service bulletins I had to look up again. They are to notify you of modifications that can be made on an aircraft, from the manufacturer.

ADs are mandatory. SBs are generally not mandatory for US airplanes operating under Part 91 unless a specific AD makes one so. Even though the manufacturer will call them mandatory, they ain't under part 91 in the US, as a rule. Parts 135 and 121 are different and compliance with SBs may very well be mandatory under their operations requirements approved by the FAA. Other countries, Canada for instance, may require SB compliance across the board.

Had to look this one up as well. I know the effects dry/soft/density altitude, etc have on the takeoff and landing distance, but didn't really consider how they relate to each other. I think I found part of the answer in the Pilots Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge:

The speed (acceleration and deceleration) experienced by any object varies directly with the imbalance of force and inversely with the mass of the object. An airplane on the runway moving at 75 knots has four times the energy it has traveling at 37 knots. Thus, an airplane requires four times as much distance to stop as required at half the speed.

{/QUOTE]

All things being equal, you can land in a shorter distance than you can take off in as a general rule.
 
Thanks @Witmo ! I think I tend to overcomplicate things, I like the simpler answer for takeoff vs landing distance :)
 
Stop! Who would take the Checkride of Death must answer me this questions three, ere the approval of the DPE he shall see.
Caramon: Ask me the questions, Olde DPE, I am not afraid.
What is your name?
I am Caramon of Sarasota
What is your quest?
I seek the commercial pilot certificate
What is the take off distance of a swallow, both laden and unladen?
Nevermind, this certificate is too silly
 
You're missing the regulatory reference(s) for starters...

Yes, thank you! I will make sure to confirm I've earmarked 91.205 in FAR/AIM. I also need to make sure I earmark the requirements for over-water flight. Both for hire and not for hire.
 
Yes, thank you! I will make sure to confirm I've earmarked 91.205 in FAR/AIM. I also need to make sure I earmark the requirements for over-water flight. Both for hire and not for hire.
What reg allows you to fly with inop equipment?
 
Another key is knowing what you need to know cold and what you should just look up.

Minumum equipment, don't bother, just look it up.

NTSB 830, just look up.

Airspace, have it down cold.

V speeds, have down cold

Etc
 
On the subject of documentation, I assume you have a GPS in the airplane. What document lists the GPS paperwork that must be in the airplane?
 
What reg allows you to fly with inop equipment?

That would be 91.213. But, you need to make sure you take care of placarding, disabling and noting in the logs when that occurs. And that only applies to equipment that's NOT required for VFR or IFR operations.

On the subject of documentation, I assume you have a GPS in the airplane. What document lists the GPS paperwork that must be in the airplane?

Hmm..have to find that, but I know a GPS supplement was required with the GPS I installed in my Cherokee. Only thing I can think of at the moment would be a 337 form or 8130
 
Hmm..have to find that, but I know a GPS supplement was required with the GPS I installed in my Cherokee. Only thing I can think of at the moment would be a 337 form or 8130
Hint...look n your GPS Supplement. ;)
 
Thanks @Witmo ! I think I tend to overcomplicate things, I like the simpler answer for takeoff vs landing distance :)

Or even simpler, he was hinting at this:

"If the runway is REALLY short, you may be able to land it, but not be able to get it back out."

Seen usually in off-airport emergencies... land it fine in a small space, have to put it on a flatbed to get it out. :)
 
Congrats!

Thanks Maule!

@denverpilot yeah I think that makes sense too. You have a particular performance window for takeoffs and there are a lot of factors that influence having enough power to actually depart.

Any surprises?

Only surprised at how I managed to miss some questions I thought I had right. And there were some easy ones too. No ADF questions or RMI as expected, but had a bunch of those on the practice tests. Gonna make sure I go back through the ones I missed over the weekend and figure out why my brain was broken on those.
 
This has been a great post. I'm hoping to have my commercial check ride complete by the end of the month.
 
So I'm down to the last two weeks before my checkride. It's scheduled for end of April.

One thing that I'm sure I'll go through with the CFI I'm using before then is the emergency gear extension lever. The Piper POH for the Arrow II says it's hydraulically actuated by an electrically powered reversible pump. Does that mean it's hydraulic or electric, or both?

Also, for maneuvers like Chandelles and Lazy 8s will I need to lock the gear in the up position with the override to prevent it from dropping at close to stall speeds (even with power on). I know the POH says it will drop with power off and less than a certain speed. The Arrow I fly doesn't have those things disabled (although I know some do).

Retractable gear is AWESOME, but man I gotta be honest if I'm not a bit intimidated by it and/or a bit afraid of doing something stupid and pushing the lever the wrong way or operating it incorrectly while on the ground.

I'm going through the POH (or a copy of a similar model/year) as much as I can.
 
Also, for maneuvers like Chandelles and Lazy 8s will I need to lock the gear in the up position with the override to prevent it from dropping at close to stall speeds (even with power on). I know the POH says it will drop with power off and less than a certain speed. The Arrow I fly doesn't have those things disabled (although I know some do).

While I haven't flown an Arrow, as you state the gear automatically drops with power OFF. Chandelles and Lazy 8s are both power ON manuevers. Chandelles require full power, and lazy 8s are usually at a cruise setting.
 
While I haven't flown an Arrow, as you state the gear automatically drops with power OFF. Chandelles and Lazy 8s are both power ON manuevers. Chandelles require full power, and lazy 8s are usually at a cruise setting.

Gotcha, thanks. I guess I was worried as the POH says the gear can/will drop at or below 85 MPH on the Arrow, even with power on. (Power on Stall speed clean is 71 mph). With Chandelles you are supposed to end up 5-10 knots above stall speed at the end of the maneuver when you complete it. At that speed I'll be at 81 MPH which is 4 below where the gear drops. Lazy 8s you do the same as I understood, cruise speed, turn up to stall, down, etc..
 
Also, for maneuvers like Chandelles and Lazy 8s will I need to lock the gear in the up position with the override to prevent it from dropping at close to stall speeds (even with power on). I know the POH says it will drop with power off and less than a certain speed. The Arrow I fly doesn't have those things disabled (although I know some do).

Yes you will need to hold the override up. You can ask the examiner to do it for you.

pushing the lever the wrong way or operating it incorrectly while on the ground.
To override the automatic gear extender to keep the gear up, you pull the lever up. To do the emergency extension you push down. Why would you need to operate it on the ground?

While I haven't flown an Arrow, as you state the gear automatically drops with power OFF.

Not at all. The automatic gear extension is based on airspeed.
 
I typically would lock the auto drop out on the Arrow IV I used to fly, just don't forget to lower the gear before landing lol
 
@James331 Yeah, believe me, that's a recurring nightmare of mine heh...

To override the automatic gear extender to keep the gear up, you pull the lever up. To do the emergency extension you push down. Why would you need to operate it on the ground?

For example, if you are doing a short field takeoff and want to get the gear UP at an airspeed that might be LESS than the 85 MPH amount. As I understand it, the gear won't come up below that speed. So, you'd have to lock the override in place before takeoff so you can raise it at a lower airspeed if you need the climb speed/rate.

I've never needed to do that, but it's in the POH.
 
For example, if you are doing a short field takeoff and want to get the gear UP at an airspeed that might be LESS than the 85 MPH amount. As I understand it, the gear won't come up below that speed. So, you'd have to lock the override in place before takeoff so you can raise it at a lower airspeed if you need the climb speed/rate.

You don't have to do it on the ground. The Arrow I doesn't even have a latch. For a short-field takeoff, after positive rate we would place the normal gear handle up and then pull up on the override.
 
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You don't have to do it on the ground. The Arrow I doesn't even have a latch. For a short-field takeoff we would place the normal gear handle up and then pull up on the override.

Gotcha. I've flown two arrows that have had the switch disabled, so that even at low airspeeds, the gear would stay up. Kinda forces you to pay attention.

I get why you'd lock it up for maneuvers but yeah I guess I was apprehensive about touching anything near the override on the ground for fear of doing something stupid and having it fold up under me. I know there's a squat switch, but sometimes those fail too.
 
Retractable gear is AWESOME, but man I gotta be honest if I'm not a bit intimidated by it and/or a bit afraid of doing something stupid and pushing the lever the wrong way or operating it incorrectly while on the ground.

Nothing to be intimidated by. Gear lever in most little airplanes is one of those "don't touch on the ground" levers. That and remember "there are those who have and those who will" and you should be ok.
 
A few thoughts on the gear and commercial:
1) I always put on the gear override before takeoff for a couple of reasons. First, at some high DA airports, I've wanted the gear up before the plane wanted to put it up. Second, if I have an emergency shortly after takeoff, I want to be the one deciding whether the gear is up or down (not the plane). There was a recent accident where it was speculated that part of the cause was due to the gear coming down at an inopportune time.
2) No problems with the gear coming down on chandelles or lazy 8's as has been noted. I did have it come down once while practicing 8's on pylons -- not really a good time to have that happen.
3) My biggest concern regarding use of gear on the commercial checkride was that the examiner was going to have me demonstrate a steep spiral into a power off 180. Unless you use the gear override in the steep sprial, it will drop on you -- so you need to lock it. But then when you perform the power off 180, you need to remember to drop the gear -- even though the override is on and the gear horn has been blaring during the steep spiral portion. This ended up being a non-event as the DPE didn't put these two maneuvers together.
 
Gotcha, thanks. I guess I was worried as the POH says the gear can/will drop at or below 85 MPH on the Arrow, even with power on. (Power on Stall speed clean is 71 mph). With Chandelles you are supposed to end up 5-10 knots above stall speed at the end of the maneuver when you complete it. At that speed I'll be at 81 MPH which is 4 below where the gear drops. Lazy 8s you do the same as I understood, cruise speed, turn up to stall, down, etc..
Here's a good opportunity to demonstrate your knowledge of aircraft systems on the checkride. How is airspeed determined for this automatic gear extension? How might a power setting impact that measurement?
 
A few thoughts on the gear and commercial:
1) I always put on the gear override before takeoff for a couple of reasons. First, at some high DA airports, I've wanted the gear up before the plane wanted to put it up. Second, if I have an emergency shortly after takeoff, I want to be the one deciding whether the gear is up or down (not the plane). There was a recent accident where it was speculated that part of the cause was due to the gear coming down at an inopportune time.
2) No problems with the gear coming down on chandelles or lazy 8's as has been noted. I did have it come down once while practicing 8's on pylons -- not really a good time to have that happen.
3) My biggest concern regarding use of gear on the commercial checkride was that the examiner was going to have me demonstrate a steep spiral into a power off 180. Unless you use the gear override in the steep sprial, it will drop on you -- so you need to lock it. But then when you perform the power off 180, you need to remember to drop the gear -- even though the override is on and the gear horn has been blaring during the steep spiral portion. This ended up being a non-event as the DPE didn't put these two maneuvers together.

1) Got it, I think it's on the checklist I have actually to do that, but I've never done it during any of the flights I've taken in the Arrow.
2) I think 8s on pylons is the easiest maneuver for me...don't know why but it takes me back to turns about a point which I REALLY practiced a lot, and used a lot after I got my license for picture taking, etc..
3) When I did steep spirals the other day we did them gear down, not up, so I'm used to that. Also we never really exceeded 30 degrees of bank, though afterwards, I went back and debriefed it with CloudAhoy and holy Christmas it looked horrible. I'm going up twice this weekend and twice more before the checkride to REALLY nail that one. The only other part that I need some work on is the power off 180. I may just stay in the pattern and do nothing but power off 180s the day before the checkride heh..

Here's a good opportunity to demonstrate your knowledge of aircraft systems on the checkride. How is airspeed determined for this automatic gear extension? How might a power setting impact that measurement?

There's a mast above the left wing that is used to sense engine power (propeller slipstream) and airspeed. At slow airspeeds with lots of slipstream (power) the mast will not trigger the gear, but once the airspeed gets below a certain amount (85 MPH) the gear will drop even with power on.

Anything that gets caught in the mast (clogging the hole) will also trigger the gear to drop since it won't be receiving a slipstream from the prop.

At least that's how I understand it..
 
There's a mast above the left wing that is used to sense engine power (propeller slipstream) and airspeed. At slow airspeeds with lots of slipstream (power) the mast will not trigger the gear, but once the airspeed gets below a certain amount (85 MPH) the gear will drop even with power on.

Anything that gets caught in the mast (clogging the hole) will also trigger the gear to drop since it won't be receiving a slipstream from the prop.

At least that's how I understand it..

You've got it. The point I was trying to make (and you get) is that the "airspeed" is not the usual plane-through-the-air airspeed but blast from the prop airspeed. So on something like a Chandelle where the plane's airspeed might be near stall speed, there will still be a quite a bit of "airspeed" coming off the prop and hitting that mast due to the high power setting.

Good luck on the checkride!
 
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