Dave Anderson
Line Up and Wait
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2021
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SkyDreams
I would like your wife to become friends with my wife, can we set that up?There's always his & hers airplanes... works in my household
Comfortable Ownership?
- Thread starter RyanB
- Start date
FPK1
Line Up and Wait
You are right I failed to include property tax because I have yet to get my first tax bill...Plus I would guess property tax (on a new plane maybe $400/month in California?) and cost of money (maybe $1500/month opportunity cost). I would then in my way calculate the total at about $4700 monthly.
Those factors are largely why I fly a plane that my California county thinks is worth $21K (they have no basis for comparison, there’s only a handful in the US) and which I’d guess is actually worth maybe $40-50K max in the open market. That makes my property tax about $20 a month and cost of money about $200 a month. It’s a nice enough plane regardless, for my use.
$900 a month for a hangar? That’s a lot, my oversized hangar in So Cal is $445 but I know I’m very lucky to have found it 15+ years ago. I’ll never voluntarily give it up, not until I’m in the old people’s home, after I can’t get myself to the airport to socialize any more!
My maintenance cost has been held low because I do most of it myself, with A&P sign-offs and supervision. I’ve had the plane 12 years and as time goes on a lot of improvement has been done at modest cost.
My fixed monthly cost is thus about $1K per month. Fuel is extra at $50/hr, and if I kept an engine reserve it would be too. The engine has 1100 hrs total time since new, I fly only about once a week and I have a fair bit of cash on hand so I don’t bother.
Owning and flying a plane is not a thing that costs a fixed amount of money. The cost depends on your approach and how you’re able to refine it over time and experience. My approach for twenty years and two planes has been to choose the plane and maintain it in a way that is inexpensive relative to my income, so as to avoid financial stress in mid-life which is when saving, housing, family etc stress seems to peak.
I will probably feel more comfortable buying the $250K Marchetti of my dreams just before I’m too old to fly it
Depends on what you fly..
My 7ac:
Insurance: $1000/yr
Hangar: $180/mo $2160
Owner-assist annual $400
oil changes for the year $120
fuel $20/hr
Total fixed: $3560
Variable: $21.20/hr
cost per hour (100 hrs): $56.80
My 7ac:
Insurance: $1000/yr
Hangar: $180/mo $2160
Owner-assist annual $400
oil changes for the year $120
fuel $20/hr
Total fixed: $3560
Variable: $21.20/hr
cost per hour (100 hrs): $56.80
mandm
Pattern Altitude
Any cost for tools parts mx? Also I spend probably $20 each way in fuel driving to and from the airport, plus miles and usage on my car, I don’t calculate it out, but I think everyone has a different viewpoint of what to consider a cost vs what not to consider a cost. How about the value of your time too? If we look at it from a business view with profit and loss calculations, might be seeing much higher numbers then what everyone is posting.
No, not calculating tools, i like tools as a separate hobby anyway. Parts are minimal on a non-electric antique taildragger. My airplane is on a grass strip a mile from my house. I look at it as a hobby, not business calculation. My time has no "value" when it is recreation/hobby, the "opportunity cost" is not sitting on the couch.
I question what kind of annual you’re getting for $400, even owner assisted, and I’m not sure how you manage to do oil changes for $120/yr, unless you’re only doing one change.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
my annual inspection costs me nothing....so, it must not be the highest quality that most are demanding for the $1,200 inspections.
Ever done an inspection on a champ or cub? Not much to it. I spend the time pulling inspection covers, draining oil, pulling and cleaning spark plugs etc. AI reviews logs, checks ADs, inspects airframe, cuts oil filter, checks timing. $400 is actually a pretty handsome hourly rate for only the inspection portion on a champ.
Oil changes every 25 hours, 4 quarts oil. This is an A65, no oil filter to buy.
schmookeeg
En-Route
You're also paying to offset the IA's lifetime of liability with that pen stroke. Some IAs (particularly the more, ahem, judgement-proof ones) seem to offer discounts on this, but most shouldn't.
You're also paying to offset the IA's lifetime of liability with that pen stroke. Some IAs (particularly the more, ahem, judgement-proof ones) seem to offer discounts on this, but most shouldn't.
Are there E&O policies for IAs?
schmookeeg
En-Route
Yep. Covers work done only during the policy period.
My last quote was for 100K in annual billing (about all I wanted to do as a "side hustle") and was $13,000 per year. Since my aircraft insurance agreed to cover my work done on my plane, I stay in that lane and declined the 13K; thus I refuse to do outside maintenance work, and get asked a fair amount.
So at $400 per annual, even on a champ or cub, homeboy is gonna need to hustle with that luxurious hourly rate.
Hence my judgement-proof remark. The dudes doing sub-$1K annuals are surely not carrying any sort of liability insurance so Caveat Emptor is in effect.
As a sole prop business, that’s a non-starter.
Part 43 (d) requires a lot more than that. If that’s all he’s doing, you’re getting royally cheated, but that sounds about right for $400.
certainly, i should have included "Etc." to the end. Or more accurately, the IA does the required items per the Regs. Not sure the reason behind the disbelief here. Plenty of places advertise a flat rate annual for a cub or champ at $800-$1000. It's not unreasonable to assume more than half of the effort involved in one of these simple airplanes is wrapped up in the monkeywork of disassembly, oil change, bearing packing, spark plug cleaning, reassembly, etc..
As far as the liability, not downplaying the part it plays, but its included in the hourly rate. I also managed airplanes in a flying club which are maintained by a reputable mechanic. His hourly rate commensurate with the service he provides and i have never seen a line item "surcharge for my liability" on his invoices...
Jeff Oslick
Final Approach
I don't have a flying budget.
To paraphrase loose advice given to me by another pilot/owner:
"Sometimes there is a $63 roll of paper towels in the house."
To paraphrase loose advice given to me by another pilot/owner:
"Sometimes there is a $63 roll of paper towels in the house."