colloquial explanation of IFR procedures

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by Salty, Jul 24, 2020.

  1. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Is there anything out there that approaches the subject from a "Here's the problem, and here's how the IFR system solves it" angle? Instead of memorizing a bunch of procedures, it sure would be nice to start with "You don't want to hit the ground", here are the ways IFR help you avoid that. "What if you get too low and can't see the runway?", then you can talk about "going missed". What if they need to keep you away from the airport for awhile until a storm passes? What if there are a bunch of planes in the hold pattern? Here's how they deal with that.

    I'm looking for sort of a "Stick and Rudder" for IFR. I learn WAY better this way than just memorizing a bunch of procedures and then trying to figure out why they are important later. I guess you could call it scenario based.

    Not intending to use it to pass tests or check-rides, but to actually understand the system better.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
  2. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach

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    AIM, Instrument Flying Handbook, Machado and others.
     
  3. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    The instrument flying handbook is exactly The opposite of what I’m looking for.
     
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  4. sarangan

    sarangan Line Up and Wait

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    I know what you are asking for, but not every procedure may have a logical reason. Some do, and many are just standard practice. For example, why does VFR traffic have to maintain 1000 above and 500 below? Why 3 mile visibility, why not 2 miles? Why is standard traffic pattern to the left?
     
  5. Lindberg

    Lindberg En-Route

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    Definitely not the Instrument Flying Handbook.
     
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  6. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach

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    There was a thread here a couple weeks ago. Somebody had found a ‘different’ book that may be what you’re looking for. Don’t know if it covered IFR though. Maybe someone will remember it.
     
  7. Larry in TN

    Larry in TN Pattern Altitude

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    Start by taking a look at *THE* Instrument Flight Rules. 14 CFR 91.167 through 91.199. Don't have to read them all, just browse through the topics covered. When someone says "IFR", those are THE Instrument Flight Rules. (They follow immediately after THE Visual Flight Rules)

    The primary point of IFR is to provide separation from other traffic when visibility is such that separation can not be maintained visually. Terrain and obstacle separation is also needed, since you can't do it visually, so there are rules which provide systems for maintain that separation with low, or no, visibility.

    Published instrument procedures (approaches, ODPs, SIDs, STARS, airways, holding, etc.) are established to give ATC the tools it needs to provide traffic separation as well as the pilot the tools (minimum IFR altitudes) he needs to ensure terrain and obstruction clearance.

    Controlled airspace (Class A, B, C, D, & E) is established to give ATC the authority to control IFR traffic and to require VFR traffic to maintain sufficient visibility and cloud clearance so that there is time to apply visual separation when IFR traffic moves from areas of IMC into areas of VMC.
     
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  8. chemgeek

    chemgeek Pattern Altitude

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    If you want to know the logic behind why approach procedures are designed the way they are, you will have to learn the TERPS requirements, and you DEFINITELY don't want to go there. It's hard enough to figure it out when the FAA explains it to you why they had to re-design your approaches due to changing standards of safety. As a commissioner for our local airport, I'm thankful our consultant firm knows how all this works.
     
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  9. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I’m not looking for a technical explanation of the details, just an approach that explains that you could lose nav signal if you’re too low and there’s a mountain around, so there’s an MRA to solve that problem, as an example.
     
  10. Jim K

    Jim K Line Up and Wait

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  11. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I will, that’s one I hadn’t run across yet. Thanks.
     
  12. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    "I learn WAY better this way than just memorizing a bunch of procedures and then trying to figure out why they are important later. I guess you could call it scenario based."


    Me too. If my CFII had tried to teach me by "memorizing a bunch of procedures" then I would have fired his ass. I consider myself fortunate in that it took me longer than usual to get my rating and, as a result, I got a lot of actual and many real situation. I'm pretty comfortable flying IFR now.

    All that said "memorizing procedures" is a big part of IFR. Controlling the airplane and doing things at the proper time is critical to success, there is no time to fiddle about. There are a lot of rules and you need to know them. I took the written before I started my lessons. Material on the written is fair game for the check ride and a lot of it was covered in the oral part of the check ride. I continued drilling (memorizing and reviewing) the written material throughout my training. In fact I still, a year and a half after my check ride, occasionally pull out the practice tests and do them, reviewing the material I get wrong. I've had 2 ipc's now, the last one about 2 weeks ago. It's part of the requirement to fly the AC I rent IFR, but it's fun to do and it points out stuff I might need to work on.

    The best way to understand the system though is to get out and do it. Understanding the rules and theory is one thing, applying them is a whole 'nother ball of wax.

    The biggest thing that IFR does for me is I now don't worry about weather that would stop me before. I have personal mins, which are higher than legal mins, if the weather is better than my mins, I go. Only the weather no sane person would fly in stops me now. It opens up a lot more opportunities to fly.
     
  13. Arnold

    Arnold Line Up and Wait

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    Instrument Flying by Richard Taylor, a classic.
     
  14. Jim Carpenter

    Jim Carpenter Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The Instrument Procedures Handbook covers a lot of the real nuts-and-bolts, though perhaps not as "colloquially" as you might like.
     
  15. bobmrg

    bobmrg En-Route

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    The closest I come in THE COMPLETE ADVANCED PILOT is to compare instrument approaches to crossing a stream by stepping on conveniently located rocks....to an instrument pilot, each fix (rock) between the initial approach fix is a point in space defined by altitude and location; step on every one and you will end up looking at the runway. I have separate sections for VOR on/off the field, ILS without FAF, etc. Following a magenta line is so easy that it is hard to describe in words.

    Bob Gardner
     
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  16. Hang 4

    Hang 4 Line Up and Wait

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    I agree on the need for something less sleep inducing than the FAA publications. Even the online stuff seems to assume some level of understanding that they assume you got from something else. I used Sporty's for both PP and IFR. For PP, I found it very helpful and I "got" most of it. The IFR version was the same quality, but I just didn't get why some if it mattered. One example from both the Handbook and a written prep class I took was to put "No SID or STARs" in my flight plan. It basically said put that in this field.. OK, but why? When would I want to do that and when wouldn't I? Another example was "Protected Side" or area. Lots of stuff written about it, but it finally made sense very close to my checkride. I could regurgitate the correct answer, but didn't really understand it.

    It eventually all made sense, but I basically came into my course knowing very little. Coming into PP, I felt like I knew what was going on.
     
  17. Maxnr

    Maxnr Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I completely know what you're looking for.
    I hope you can find a CFI, group or at least an old pro to chat with that does not talk in only "legalese" and just the simple, good ole boy terms we all understand. And knows what you are looking for.
    Example: "Approach sequence". Def: "The dogfight over the outer marker." The get into the AIM or whatever other reference and pick through the legal terms. Good luck.
     
  18. N1120A

    N1120A Pattern Altitude

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    Jason Miller just put out a video about IFR flying that breaks things down very well, as he always does.
     
  19. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    This is sort of what I was looking for, I think you need a good deal of knowledge about IFR already for a lot of this to make sense. Leaves a lot of gaps, but I've only done the first half dozen chapters so far.
     
  20. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I'm a couple chapters in and I'm liking this one a LOT. Thanks!
     
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  21. jsstevens

    jsstevens Final Approach PoA Supporter

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  22. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    Salty, Mike Goulian is teaching his wife how to fly ifr. They are just starting so you can see what you might be in for. I’ll tell you that I started like you, trying to figure it out on my own first. While I knew a lot of the rules and ideas, I knew nothing about flying ifr. Keep that in mind as you proceed.

     
  23. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Oh, I'm using an instructor, I just know that there were a lot of things in private that I learned and had no idea why they were important at the time and I know it's even worse with IFR, so I'd like to understand more of the "why's" up front rather than figuring them out later. This is just a bonus to actual study and training.
     
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  24. dtuuri

    dtuuri En-Route

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    Indeed, I leave gaps. My intention is to "Prepare the battlefield of your mind," so to speak. I'm working on a GPS tutorial now and after that I'll be keying each tutorial to FAA reference documents that supplement my slides. Anytime you see an unfamiliar term, please look it up on your own. Some people like my site exactly because it doesn't try to explain everything, saving them a lot of time rehashing previously learned information. I always appreciate any feedback via a PM.
     
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  25. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    By the way, it wasn't working this morning when I tried to get in. I was getting no response at all. Now this:

    @dtuuri
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  26. dtuuri

    dtuuri En-Route

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    Worked for me just now. My webmaster has been working on the site, maybe he's the culprit? I'll forward the error to him, thanks.
     
  27. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    working for me now also :D