Cold Calling

At my Class D, If I'm calling ground just because I want to taxi for takeoff, I do the simple "N12345 at PSA, request taxi 29R with Echo." If I'm heading up north then it's "with request" since I'm requesting the taxi, flight following and bravo transition. I don't know why, but I figure if it's a standard transmission, their brains will be fine with it coming out of nowhere. If it's a more involved request that is the first time they're hearing it for the day after hearing 100 of the others, it gets their brain into pay attention mode.

I use my own experience at work this way. Hearing the routine just results in brain autopilot. Hearing something different throws your brain into the "wait wut?" mode.
 
StinkBug said:
At my field (a class D) if the same person is working ground and tower they are transmitting on both, so you would hear their side of any discussion on tower frequency.
Click to expand...

It's my experience that the same holds true for center controllers who are working more than one frequency. You can hear all of the controller's calls...just not all of the planes'.
 
mscard88 said:
I haven't done ATC since 1988, but back then I believe you could only give a pilot 2 items, for example, "turn left heading 230, descend and maintain 2000", then after pilot acknowledges, "contact XYZ Center 123.45". Hopefully a current controller will chime in.
Click to expand...

Yeah 15 years for me but I don't think you could do that either. Don't think it was a .65 thing though. Maybe a letter. Can't remember.
 
EdFred said:
And my experience is the exact opposite. Last week same voice, but wasn't transmitting on both. Unless there were twins working the radios.
Click to expand...
I've noticed that when tower controllers are working multiple freqs (tower/ground/CD) they will transmit on all freqs at once.

When Approach or Center guys are using multiple freqs you will typically won't hear the overlap.
 
Fearless Tower said:
When Approach or Center guys are using multiple freqs you will typically won't hear the overlap.
Click to expand...
I've experienced the exact opposite. I typically hear their calls on all frequencies they're working. This is evidenced when I hear them tell bugssmasher 54433 "change to my frequency 123.65", which is the frequency I'm on, and then I hear bugsmasher 54433 when he checks in.

If it wasn't for these exchanges, I might think the aircraft was out of range when I hear just one side of the conversation. Though, you can hear aircraft (air to air) for a long assed ways...likely farther than the typical individual ATC frequency encompasses.
 
I'm a big fan of cold calling, especially when the controller sounds crazy busy.

Nothing is more annoying then someone unprepared calling in and taking up a minute of airtime with nonsense. Get a handheld radio or go to liveatc.net and just listen to some of the check-in's by the pros. Clear, concise, to the point. Then you get the student pilots and the weekend warriors who checkin something like this:

Noob: "Tampa Approach, N12345 inbound Sarasota"
Approach: "N12345, Tampa Approach, say type aircraft and location"
Noob: "Tampa Approach, N12345, we're North, Cessna"
Approach: "North of where? What type of Cessna, say altitude and verify you have information Mike"
Noob: "North of Venice airport, we're about uh..2153 feet, wait no, 2200 feet, do not have information Mike, will get it"
Approach: <sigh>....
 
timwinters said:
I've experienced the exact opposite.
Click to expand...
I doubt there is any real uniformity. I recall one night leaving the Colorado Springs Class C. We had a fly-in dinner and we were all leaving at the same time. The same guy was working CD, Ground, Tower and TRACON but was using all of them instead of consolidating and reporting the consolidation on ATIS. Pilots having a variety of comm knowledge, he was getting initial calls from the group on both CD and Ground and was slowly being driven crazy.

There is a lot of standardization in aviation. But, within the standards is quite a bit of room for variation. We all tend to forget that and start thinking our local experience is universal. My personal favorite is Maui. (At least when I was last there but the taxi diagram suggests it's still the case) GA departing from the Kahului Airport call CD for departure instructions and then Tower, but don't speak to Ground.
 
midlifeflyer said:
........There is a lot of standardization in aviation. But, within the standards is quite a bit of room for variation. We all tend to forget that and start thinking our local experience is universal.......
Click to expand...

That says it all. Knowing the "culture" of where you are makes everything go so much smoother. When you aren't, the basic standardization will always get things done.
 
Caramon13 said:
I'm a big fan of cold calling, especially when the controller sounds crazy busy.

Nothing is more annoying then someone unprepared calling in and taking up a minute of airtime with nonsense. Get a handheld radio or go to liveatc.net and just listen to some of the check-in's by the pros. Clear, concise, to the point. Then you get the student pilots and the weekend warriors who checkin something like this:

Noob: "Tampa Approach, N12345 inbound Sarasota"
Approach: "N12345, Tampa Approach, say type aircraft and location"
Noob: "Tampa Approach, N12345, we're North, Cessna"
Approach: "North of where? What type of Cessna, say altitude and verify you have information Mike"
Noob: "North of Venice airport, we're about uh..2153 feet, wait no, 2200 feet, do not have information Mike, will get it"
Approach: <sigh>....
Click to expand...

And cold calling helps that incompetence how?? Bad radio technique will always generate more congestion.
 
Ugh, You are all doing it wrong

My initial call: "Denton Tower, Please let Ground know Cirrus will be taxiing now."
Tower: 'Yes sir, we will clear the riff raff out of your way"
Me: "Yes, thank you, no riff raff please"
Tower: "We have notified ground, setup flight following and gone ahead and made the straight final call for you at your destination airport. Have a great flight"
Me: "I always do"
 
timwinters said:
It's my experience that the same holds true for center controllers who are working more than one frequency. You can hear all of the controller's calls...just not all of the planes'.
Click to expand...

This has been my experience as well. Socal, NorCal and LA Center are broken up into a ton of tiny little pieces because of how busy it is. At night they are often combined so I hear this a lot. Also a lot of "change to my frequency" calls.
 
EdFred said:
KGRR. Approach/Departure sits right under the tower cab - all accessible from the passenger terminal.
Click to expand...
KSGF is that way too. Tower in a nice room with a 360* window view, Approach/Departure in a completely dark dungeon one floor down.

I know where I'd rather be!
 
I know that I said "facility" which doesn't necessarily mean two different buildings.
 
timwinters said:
It's my experience that the same holds true for center controllers who are working more than one frequency. You can hear all of the controller's calls...just not all of the planes'.
Click to expand...

Sometimes that happens even on the same frequency. There are sectors so big and with line of sight terrain issues that there are different antennae sites for the same frequency.
 
timwinters said:
I've experienced the exact opposite. I typically hear their calls on all frequencies they're working.
Click to expand...

Same.

Think of the alternative. The controller would have to determine which frequency each call is coming in on and continually switch frequencies to be able to transmit on the correct one.
 
timwinters said:
It's my experience that the same holds true for center controllers who are working more than one frequency. You can hear all of the controller's calls...just not all of the planes'.
Click to expand...
luvflyin said:
Sometimes that happens even on the same frequency. There are sectors so big and with line of sight terrain issues that there are different antennae sites for the same frequency.
Click to expand...
Think about what you said there...
 
CC268 said:
Hey guys,

I am a student pilot flying out of a Class D airport. I have never cold called (my instructor hasn't told me to do so), but I noticed guys like MZeroA on YouTube always cold call. Is this good practice? Should you only cold call if the frequency is busy? Cold call on Ground, Tower, Approach, etc?

EDIT: By cold calling I mean just calling up and stating your tail number.

Thanks
Click to expand...

1. When calling ground, I give only N number and am prepared to give all info on the next transmission.

2. When approaching an airport - N number X miles Direction inbound f
CC268 said:
Hey guys,

I am a student pilot flying out of a Class D airport. I have never cold called (my instructor hasn't told me to do so), but I noticed guys like MZeroA on YouTube always cold call. Is this good practice? Should you only cold call if the frequency is busy? Cold call on Ground, Tower, Approach, etc?

EDIT: By cold calling I mean just calling up and stating your tail number.

Thanks
Click to expand...

I usually call with just tail number, but am prepared to include all necessary info in next transmission.
 
bobmrg said:
LDJones said:
It shouldn't. AIM 4-2-3 paragraph a. concerning "Initial Contact" seems pretty clear, including examples of appropriate phraseology.
Click to expand...
Give that man a big hand!!!
Click to expand...

The AIM surely is a great tool.
Except many go ahead and ignore it because they "know better".
Just look at the length of this multiple-time-duplicate thread. Let's see if we can hit 50 pages this time.
:popcorn:
 
Timbeck2 said:
I'm wondering how the same guy can work two facilities. o_O
Click to expand...

I have talked to the same guy on all frequencies before. I assume he used the display in the tower to manage the one or two planes he had late in the evening. Not sureabout the legality. They closed the tracon for the night after the lexington crash soon after.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Ugh, You are all doing it wrong

My initial call: "Denton Tower, Please let Ground know Cirrus will be taxiing now."
Tower: 'Yes sir, we will clear the riff raff out of your way"
Me: "Yes, thank you, no riff raff please"
Tower: "We have notified ground, setup flight following and gone ahead and made the straight final call for you at your destination airport. Have a great flight"
Me: "I always do"
Click to expand...

Do you declare your emergency in advance, too? You are, after all, flying a Cirrys! :D
 
LDJones said:
Do you declare your emergency in advance, too? You are, after all, flying a Cirrys! :D
Click to expand...
what they trained us to do is go ahead and claim an engine emergency before we take off since it's going to happen in route at some point. This allows them to go ahead and get the emergency crews scrambled somewhere along your destination. it's a precaution cirrus encourages along with always dressing nicely for the press photos after the chute pull.
 
Calling Denver Approach VFR, I usually give tail number and "vfr request". If they're accepting, they shoot back the squawk and I give the rest of my info when I read back the squawk code. This way, if they are not accepting, they just say standby and I didn't waste time spewing all my info unnecessarily. It works for us around here.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I know that I said "facility" which doesn't necessarily mean two different buildings.
Click to expand...

I've known in the past that approach was done in the cab, whether a repeater display or not I don't recall. KGPT had this set up, but that was many many years ago.

As far as a controller working 2-3 frequencies it's usually when traffic is slow. I know in the USAF the tape recorders recorded specific frequencies on different channels. When we would combine frequencies in one position (like LC w/ GC for instance) we note that in the log. Made it easier to investigate an incident which was one benefit of that.
 
Last edited:
mscard88 said:
I've known in the past that approach was done in the cab, whether a repeater display or not I don't recall. KGPT had this set up, but that was many many years ago.

As far as a controller working 2-3 frequencies it's usually when traffic is slow. I know in the USAF the tape recorders recorded specific frequencies on different channels. When we would combine frequencies in one position (like LC w/ GC for instance) we note that in the log. Made it easier to investigate an incident for one benefit.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think most Cs work approach upstairs when it's slow. My brother's facility got rid of their DBRITE last year and use something new. It's a CRTD but it doesn't have a name. Like a big screen TV they just call "the digital display."

I remember in the old tape days they had to pull different tapes for individual freqs as well. I think the digital stuff these days takes a lot of the effort out of that.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
.. dressing nicely for the press photos after the chute pull.
Click to expand...

You better stop wearing sandals then on flights, or at least keep a pair of shoes so you can change while the plane drifts to the ground. Maybe bring a razor and some shaving cream you know..so you can tidy up while the plane drifts towards its inevitable destination completely safe from any harm..

Do the planes come with separate "press dress" compartments? If not, sounds like a business opportunity! In an emergency, pull chute, while descending deploy the contents of the "press dress" compartment to look and smell your best.
 
I've had one controller bark at me for cold calling. McKinney, TX (KTKI)

I was on flight following through the Bravo (nice pictures of DFW) and when I got handed off to tower I said "McKinney tower, Cessna 12345, three thousand five hundred"

His reply was "Cessna 12345, you have to tell me a lot more than that"

C'est la vie.
 
rolivi said:
I've had one controller bark at me for cold calling. McKinney, TX (KTKI)

I was on flight following through the Bravo (nice pictures of DFW) and when I got handed off to tower I said "McKinney tower, Cessna 12345, three thousand five hundred"

His reply was "Cessna 12345, you have to tell me a lot more than that"

C'est la vie.
Click to expand...


WTF??
 
rolivi said:
I've had one controller bark at me for cold calling. McKinney, TX (KTKI)

I was on flight following through the Bravo (nice pictures of DFW) and when I got handed off to tower I said "McKinney tower, Cessna 12345, three thousand five hundred"

His reply was "Cessna 12345, you have to tell me a lot more than that"

C'est la vie.
Click to expand...

You did it correctly. What else did he want on initial check in? What did that grouch want?
 
@rolivi isn't there a somewhat known controller in our area? I have heard it mentioned that a specific controller moved from DTO to TKI at some point.
Someone mentioned in a conversation and I asked how you know a specific controller moved and the response was "You will know when you him/her"
 
rolivi said:
His reply was "Cessna 12345, you have to tell me a lot more than that"
Click to expand...

Yeah I don't understand that either, unless he was expecting a more specific position report. That happens sometimes with class Delta's with no radar services. Those fields often expect a bit more on call-up.
 
My follow-up was "Cessna 12345, 3 North east of Addison, inbound full stop"

Not a huge deal, but yes, a bit snarky of him when I thought I was an expected arrival.

BTW - KTKI is usually really easy to work with. That's where I did my initial solo and it's my usual place to take first time passengers since they get the DFW and DAL views.
 
Do they have ATIS there? Maybe that's what he wanted you to say. Still a bit out of line IMO.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top