Cold Calling

[CC268]

Hey guys,

I am a student pilot flying out of a Class D airport. I have never cold called (my instructor hasn't told me to do so), but I noticed guys like MZeroA on YouTube always cold call. Is this good practice? Should you only cold call if the frequency is busy? Cold call on Ground, Tower, Approach, etc?

EDIT: By cold calling I mean just calling up and stating your tail number.

Thanks

 

[Everskyward]

There is a term I have never heard before. What does "cold call" mean in this context?

Are you talking about calling and only stating your N-number?

 

[LDJones]

There is a term I have never heard before. What does "cold call" mean in this context?

Are you talking about calling and only stating your N-number?

I've only heard the term as it relates to salesmen. I'm curious as to its meaning here, too.

 

[CC268]

Oh sorry guys! Yea I meant just saying:

Scottsdale Ground, Skyhawk 6254D

So yes just calling and stating your N-Number

 

[eman1200]

Oh sorry guys! Yea I meant just saying:

Scottsdale Ground, Skyhawk 6254D

So yes just calling and stating your N-Number

that's exactly how you're supposed to do it. introduce yourself, they'll respond, then u tell them what u want.

 

[mjburian]

That's how I start most of my radio calls. If I have a short request or I'm telling someone something they're already expecting to hear (i.e., checking in with approach after being handed off from a previous frequency), I'll make a full radio call. Otherwise, I figure that gives the controller time to handle whatever else they have going on and then get back to me when they have a few seconds.

 

[Velocity173]

If it's a short message / request after your "cold call" that's ok as well. I usually call it a "wake up" call.

 

[LDJones]

that's exactly how you're supposed to do it. introduce yourself, they'll respond, then u tell them what u want.

Really? It seems more efficient to give them a little more information on the call up. I'd add, "at Charlie Lane, ready to taxi with November, south departure" or "10 south, inbound with November." They usually seem annoyed if they have to play twenty questions.

The exception is if I'm IFR en route on a busy frequency and I have a more involved request, in which case I'll make the "Center, Three One Victor, request" call and let them tell me when they have time to deal with it.

 

[CC268]

Hmm alright...

I usually say:
Scottsdale Ground Skyhawk 6254D at Signature with Information Mike ready to Taxi

No cold call.

Or

Scottsdale Tower Skyhawk 6254D holding short runway 21 ready for departure to the north.

 

[Everskyward]

Oh sorry guys! Yea I meant just saying:

Scottsdale Ground, Skyhawk 6254D

So yes just calling and stating your N-Number

For me it's situation dependent. On my first call to ground I state the whole message. "Scottsdale ground, Skyhawk 6254D, at [FBO name or location], ready to taxi with Alpha."

In flight, if the frequency is busy and it's not a handoff, I'll "cold call".

 

[midlifeflyer]

Really? It seems more efficient to give them a little more information on the call up.

"How much do you say on initial call-up?" is a question that combines the best of discussing religion and politics.

 

[CC268]

For me it's situation dependent. On my first call to ground I state the whole message. "Scottsdale ground, Skyhawk 6254D, at [FBO name or location], ready to taxi with Alpha."

In flight, if the frequency is busy and it's not a handoff, I'll "cold call".

This makes a lot of sense to me. I think I will do that from now on...I know calling tower on approach can be a handful of words..for example:

Scottsdale Tower Skyhawk 6254D at Pinnacle Peak 4500 inbound for full stop with Information Mike.


In that case I can see maybe cold calling first especially id the frequency is busy.

 

[eman1200]

Really? It seems more efficient to give them a little more information on the call up. I'd add, "at Charlie Lane, ready to taxi with November, south departure" or "10 south, inbound with November." They usually seem annoyed if they have to play twenty questions.....

all of that will work. if you simply introduce yourself, there will be no questions at that point, so I don't see how that's really relative. the only time there will be questions is AFTER the introduction, if you leave out information when stating your request. in your example, if you just say "inbound for landing with november", that leaves it open for them to say "where are you". or your other example, if you just say 'ready to taxi' they can ask if u have november or 'say direction of flight'. has nothing to do with the proper introduction.

 

[Everskyward]

"How much do you say on initial call-up?" is a question that combines the best of discussing religion and politics.

I wonder if controllers have the same types of discussions about how much information to give a pilot at once. There are controllers who will say, "Climb and maintain 11,000, turn right to 320, contact center on 123.4, all in one breath. Too many numbers!

 

[LDJones]

"How much do you say on initial call-up?" is a question that combines the best of discussing religion and politics.

It shouldn't. AIM 4-2-3 paragraph a. concerning "Initial Contact" seems pretty clear, including examples of appropriate phraseology.

 

[LDJones]

all of that will work. if you simply introduce yourself, there will be no questions at that point, so I don't see how that's really relative. the only time there will be questions is AFTER the introduction, if you leave out information when stating your request. in your example, if you just say "inbound for landing with november", that leaves it open for them to say "where are you". or your other example, if you just say 'ready to taxi' they can ask if u have november or 'say direction of flight'. has nothing to do with the proper introduction.

The extra question is "Three One Victor, say request." Might as well get the basics in the first call up. Without a little more info controller is left scanning his scope trying to figure out where you are and what you might need. Landing? Transitioning? Flight following?

Just do as the AIM provides.

 

[eman1200]

The extra question is "Three One Victor, say request." Might as well get the basics in the first call up. Without a little more info controller is left scanning his scope trying to figure out where you are and what you might need. Landing? Transitioning? Flight following?

Just do as the AIM provides.

I am. from the aim reference you supplied:

EXAMPLE
−
1.“New York Radio, Mooney Three One One Echo.”
2.“Columbia Ground, Cessna Three One Six ZeroFoxtrot, south ramp, I−F−R Memphis.”
3.“Miami Center, Baron Five Six Three Hotel, request V−F−R traffic advisories.”

so I am right, and so are you lol. just happens that my example is #1 and yours is #2 and #3.

 

[JHW]

No point in saying "request" it's obvious you aren't calling to tell them happy birthday. Ditto for saying "checking in" when you checkin with a new sector

 

[LDJones]

I am. from the aim reference you supplied:

EXAMPLE
−
1.“New York Radio, Mooney Three One One Echo.”
2.“Columbia Ground, Cessna Three One Six ZeroFoxtrot, south ramp, I−F−R Memphis.”
3.“Miami Center, Baron Five Six Three Hotel, request V−F−R traffic advisories.”

so I am right, and so are you lol. just happens that my example is #1 and yours is #2 and #3.

And yours ALWAYS generates additional radio traffic! So do what's most efficient!

 

[LDJones]

No point in saying "request" it's obvious you aren't calling to tell them happy birthday.

True. But it serves to let them know the transmission is complete at that point, that there isn't more to follow until they have time to deal with it.

 

[weilke]

I should try 'N1234U happy birthday' one of these days.

 

[Graueradler]

Controllers in some areas are manning more than one frequency. Just because you don't hear them on the radio doesn't mean they aren't talking to someone else. Like others above, if I have something short, I include it. If I have something longer, then it is "/request" so they can get back to me when they have time.

 

[StinkBug]

Hmm alright...

I usually say:
Scottsdale Ground Skyhawk 6254D at Signature with Information Mike ready to Taxi

No cold call.

Or

Scottsdale Tower Skyhawk 6254D holding short runway 21 ready for departure to the north.

If you're on the ground these are appropriate calls. Gets all the needed info out with a minimal amount of radio chatter. If you think about it the total radio bandwidth isn't just the words, but also the gaps between your words and theirs. If they have to reply with "say request" and then you replying again, you're saving time on the initial call up but then adding that same time with your reply and even more with the time gaps between each transmission while everybody on frequency is waiting for your conversation to end.

 

[Timbeck2]

I usually start with, "Tucson ground, Cherokee 5660U" and wait for a response. Then after they repond I tell them what I want. A lot of times controllers are clearance delivery and ground control combined with both VHF and UHF frequencies to listen to. Many times I've heard them respond to another aircraft on another frequency before they get back to me if they get back to me at all. So at first I keep things short just in case they can't respond. No need giving them the whole schpeal if they can't respond. It also gives them a chance to write the call sign down because they will screw it up quite a bit when they type it in to get the squawk. I've been Oscar Uniform, Zulu Uniform and Zero four...before.

But an initial call up on ground for a VFR departure is always a cold call.

 

[weilke]

If you're on the ground these are appropriate calls. Gets all the needed info out with a minimal amount of radio chatter. If you think about it the total radio bandwidth isn't just the words, but also the gaps between your words and theirs. If they have to reply with "say request" and then you replying again, you're saving time on the initial call up but then adding that same time with your reply and even more with the time gaps between each transmission while everybody on frequency is waiting for your conversation to end.

And other times you give your entire spiel on the call-up to ground just to get 'aicraft on east ramp, please repeat' because the controller also staffs the local (TWR) frequency and didn't get 1/2 of your information.

As midlife flyer put it further up, a discussion that includes the best of discussion religion and politics.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Really? It seems more efficient to give them a little more information on the call up. I'd add, "at Charlie Lane, ready to taxi with November, south departure" or "10 south, inbound with November." They usually seem annoyed if they have to play twenty questions.

The exception is if I'm IFR en route on a busy frequency and I have a more involved request, in which case I'll make the "Center, Three One Victor, request" call and let them tell me when they have time to deal with it.

This.

In the Navy, we refer to what the OP describes as a 'double-call up' and many a young junior officer has been chastised into submission for such radio use. It essentially adds more transmissions to the network when you could have just stated your message succinctly in the first place.

That said, there are times when the controller is overloaded and too much going on at once and you may need to call up and wait for them to get around to you. But those circumstances should be the exception, not the norm.

 

[midlifeflyer]

It shouldn't. AIM 4-2-3 paragraph a. concerning "Initial Contact" seems pretty clear, including examples of appropriate phraseology.

Except that the examples don't tell you how much information to give with the initial call-up.

"Palm Beach Approach. Cessna 1234X"​

and

"Palm Beach Approach. Cessna 1234X. 30 West. 4,500. Flight following to Boca."​

are equally correct. But in the real world, how much controllers want to hear varies enormously by geography, time of day, degree of traffic out there, and any number of other factors that affect how human beings behave in different situations. I don't recall if it was here or on another forum but a recent discussion on this very topic had pilots reporting controllers wanting either end of the spectrum one can imagine and most variations in between, with the largest single variable seemingly being pilots who sound who simply sound like they know what they are doing.

Personally, I've used just about all variations based on how complicated what I wanted was and how things "felt" at the time. So far have not been corrected or refused.

The political-religious comment is based on my observation that many of the discussions involve pilots who insist the variation they use is 100% right and anything other than that is 100% wrong.

 

[bobmrg]

It shouldn't. AIM 4-2-3 paragraph a. concerning "Initial Contact" seems pretty clear, including examples of appropriate phraseology.

Give that man a big hand!!!

Bob Gardner

 

[mscard88]

I wonder if controllers have the same types of discussions about how much information to give a pilot at once. There are controllers who will say, "Climb and maintain 11,000, turn right to 320, contact center on 123.4, all in one breath. Too many numbers!

I haven't done ATC since 1988, but back then I believe you could only give a pilot 2 items, for example, "turn left heading 230, descend and maintain 2000", then after pilot acknowledges, "contact XYZ Center 123.45". Hopefully a current controller will chime in.

 

[dmspilot]

And yours ALWAYS generates additional radio traffic! So do what's most efficient!

If the controller asks me to repeat myself because he or she wasn't ready for my call, then far more additional radio traffic is generated.

Anytime a TRACON is involved, for the FIRST controller I talk to during a flight (Approach on arrival, and CD/Ground on departure) I just say my N-number and wait for a response. Giving the information all in one go is what typically results in the "twenty questions" you are trying to avoid because the controller was busy or not paying attention and didn't hear or has forgotten half of what was said. I also don't want to waste my own breath if the controller isn't ready to deal with me.

For a Class D arrival or departure, I typically give it all in one go because there is not as much information to give. Likewise if IFR as the controller will have access to the flight plan, which will contain pertinent info that won't have to be said over the radio.

 

[EdFred]

Really? It seems more efficient to give them a little more information on the call up. I'd add, "at Charlie Lane, ready to taxi with November, south departure" or "10 south, inbound with November." They usually seem annoyed if they have to play twenty questions.

The exception is if I'm IFR en route on a busy frequency and I have a more involved request, in which case I'll make the "Center, Three One Victor, request" call and let them tell me when they have time to deal with it.

Except when ground is also working tower and you don't hear him talking to someone in the air, and then he says, "Air craft calling ground I didn't get any of that"

 

[Timbeck2]

I haven't done ATC since 1988, but back then I believe you could only give a pilot 2 items, for example, "turn left heading 230, descend and maintain 2000", then after pilot acknowledges, "contact XYZ Center 123.45". Hopefully a current controller will chime in.

It hasn't changed.

 

[MarkZ]

we try avoiding giving more than two instructions in one transmission

 

[Everskyward]

That's nice to know although I'm pretty sure I've gotten three as described. What also happens sometimes is that I'll acknowledge the instructions for altitude and heading, but while still spinning the knobs on the altitude alerter and the heading bug they'll give a frequency change.

 

[luvflyin]

I wonder if controllers have the same types of discussions about how much information to give a pilot at once. There are controllers who will say, "Climb and maintain 11,000, turn right to 320, contact center on 123.4, all in one breath. Too many numbers!

They do. Comes up a lot during training. It ranges from "combine your transmissions dammit, we ain't got time for all these transmissions" to "quit giving them to much at once, we ain't got time for all these 'say agains'". It's a matter of technique and experience. A lot has to do with the customer. That ranges from one thing at a time to practically every thing at once for the regulars.

 

[StinkBug]

Except when ground is also working tower and you don't hear him talking to someone in the air, and then he says, "Air craft calling ground I didn't get any of that"

At my field (a class D) if the same person is working ground and tower they are transmitting on both, so you would hear their side of any discussion on tower frequency. As someone else already said though, this should be the exception not the norm. Personally, I aim to reduce radio bandwidth based on the most common scenario, which is not what you describe.

 

[Harold Rutila]

The reality is that this practice of "cold calling" originated back in the days of analog radios, and in the days when there wasn't as much radio frequency traffic. I'd bet that section in the AIM hasn't changed in 40 years. I'm not saying it's a bad practice, as it certainly has applicability with certain facilities, but you can also apply some common sense to the equation as to when you need to use a "cold call."

For example, if you're flying out of a busy Class D airport, there is no reason you need to cold call Ground Control. They're going to be ready for you. If it's a slow day, you might need to reconsider that. When I was based in Lafayette (LAF), I cannot recall a single time -- even on the slowest of days -- when I ever needed to repeat my callsign or request to ground or tower. They had a 100% success rate without a cold call from the pilot.

At another facility like a Class C or B tower, where they need to enter your information into the computer, a cold call is appreciated. Not only do they need to look for you out the window, but they also need to prepare to enter a short string into the computer.

Flight service, on the other hand, needs a cold call every time. Their voice switching system is different than the one used by FAA ATC facilities, and they do not transmit on all frequencies they are working. That's why you sometimes experience a 2-3 minute delay when you call the Radio frequencies; those briefers are usually talking to another pilot.

That said, if you use a cold call like "Skyhawk 1234," you don't need to take any additional time explaining to the controller that you're a "Cessna Skyhawk 172" on the subsequent call. It's little things like that that tend to irritate controllers. Just be clear and concise about what you're requesting, cold call or not, and your efforts will be appreciated.

 

[Harold Rutila]

At my field (a class D) if the same person is working ground and tower they are transmitting on both, so you would hear their side of any discussion on tower frequency. As someone else already said though, this should be the exception not the norm.

This is a requirement in air traffic control towers when the positions are combined.

 

[EdFred]

At my field (a class D) if the same person is working ground and tower they are transmitting on both, so you would hear their side of any discussion on tower frequency. As someone else already said though, this should be the exception not the norm. Personally, I aim to reduce radio bandwidth based on the most common scenario, which is not what you describe.

And my experience is the exact opposite. Last week same voice, but wasn't transmitting on both. Unless there were twins working the radios.

 

[StevieTimes]

I say, "Minneapolis Center, Cessna 1234AR is ten to the west of GOPHER at three thousand, five hundred, and what would you say if I told you that I could easily take ten percent off your car insurance bill every month?"