Cold Calling

mscard88 said:
Do they have ATIS there? Maybe that's what he wanted you to say. Still a bit out of line IMO.
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Negative ATIS... it's one of those "with the numbers" joints :)

Of course if he had said "verify you have information Mike" wouldn't have been snarky.

Flying into the area from the South West we all seem to know that when you check in on 135.97 you should have the weather at your field or expect to get schooled! That's not a complaint, I like it. If I get handed to them sooner than expected I'll check on with "Cessna 12345 three thousand five hundred, I'll let you know when I have the current info for Meacham" They like that better than reading it to me. Then I do the "Cessna 345 has Mike at Meacham"
 
Most up/down facilities (tower upstairs, TRACON downstairs) do combine both tower and approach to the cab (the "upstairs") when traffic is slow. In fact, there are a few in the midwest with such low traffic that their radar rooms are regularly used to work the approach position less than 10 times per year. The approach controller will work off of a certified radar display in the cab, and a separate controller will handle the tower functions. If it gets busy on the approach position, another controller can open the radar room and take over.

Up until the late 2000s, one controller was able to work all of the tower positions combined with the approach control. I was flying through Fort Wayne's airspace one night on a commercial cross country training flight, and the approach controller had a few cargo haulers landing there. They were cleared for their visual approach and landing on the approach control frequency. Once they landed, they received taxi instructions on the approach control frequency, too.
 
I only do a "cold call" on initial call up with approach to get FF. Tower, ground, clearance, etc I give them everything. I know there's one controller at my airport who hates when people cold call and he'll actually ignore people who do it. It's not really necessary IMO to do it for tower or ground.
 
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geneseib said:
1. When calling ground, I give only N number and am prepared to give all info on the next transmission.
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Why not give them everything on the first transmission?
FRG Ground, Cessna 12345, Nassau Flyers, Hotel, NE departure. Simple, efficient, and doesn't cause a lot of congestion.
 
jordane93 said:
Why not give them everything on the first transmission?
FRG Ground, Cessna 12345, Nassau Flyers, Hotel, NE departure. Simple, efficient, and doesn't cause a lot of congestion.
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How well does that work when taking off from ISP?
 
dmspilot said:
Where are you going? What altitude are you going at? Are you VFR or IFR?
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You've already established that you're VFR, where you're going, and what altitude with Clearance Delivery.
LI Clearance, Cessna 12345, VFR north practice area, 2500.
 
jordane93 said:
You've already established that you're VFR, where you're going, and what altitude with Clearance Delivery.
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Then the question of whether to cold call ground does not apply. It's not a cold call, you've already established contact.

jordane93 said:
LI Clearance, Cessna 12345, VFR north practice area, 2500.
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Say type Cessna? Do you have the ATIS?
 
jordane93 said:
I'm not really sure what you're getting at here.
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The discussion is about "cold call" or initial contact procedures for your first radio call up. If you have already contacted CD or Ground, switching to tower or CD to Ground is not a "cold call". You have established contact...they already have your info and are expecting you in which case you are correct, you do not need to reblurt out your whole life story from the beginning.
 
Caramon13 said:
Yeah I don't understand that either, unless he was expecting a more specific position report. That happens sometimes with class Delta's with no radar services. Those fields often expect a bit more on call-up.
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Depends also on what the instructions were before handoff. Maybe he expected to hear you mention what approach you've been cleared for (ILS 33, visual 33, 5mi final 33 etc). You can always call up the tower on the phone after landing and ask what you could have done better. If it was just a snarky controller, his supervisor might assign him retraining.
Talk to "the man", it's a dialogue, afterall, not a monologue.

FWIW, I called up the tower cab once after a snafu on the tarmac to apologize and learn what I did wrong. The controller instead apologized to me for having confused me with another airplane (new guy). It felt honest and good, there are still good people out there.
 
jordane93 said:
Why not give them everything on the first transmission?
FRG Ground, Cessna 12345, Nassau Flyers, Hotel, NE departure. Simple, efficient, and doesn't cause a lot of congestion.
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Because on our facility tour they said they only want a tail number on initial call whether it be clearance or approach.
 
I will usually say "Skylane 1234X" when calling up for a VFR flight following or Off the ground IFR pickup, basically an introducing hey I am here. I leave the word request out because it just isn't necessary. Ground, Tower, Clearance I don't do that, I'll give them something to work with. Whether it is "east ramp with uniform" or "full stop with uniform" or "to 'destination' ".
 
Everskyward said:
For me it's situation dependent. On my first call to ground I state the whole message. "Scottsdale ground, Skyhawk 6254D, at [FBO name or location], ready to taxi with Alpha."

In flight, if the frequency is busy and it's not a handoff, I'll "cold call".
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This. If I'm the only one on frequency flying into a sleepy Class D then I'll say the whole thing. If I'm getting FF on a XC flight and am switched to a busier TRACON I just give the callsign.
 
jordane93 said:
Why not give them everything on the first transmission?
FRG Ground, Cessna 12345, Nassau Flyers, Hotel, NE departure. Simple, efficient, and doesn't cause a lot of congestion.
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Have a friend or your wife change everything in that transmission. Now YOU play the controller. Make believe that you are trying to cut an ATIS or you're listening to the clearance read back of another plane on a different frequency.

Now have the wife or friend rattle all that off to you and see how much you retain.

Call up with the call sign first. Then when they acknowledge you, rattle off everything else.
 
Stearman said:
This. If I'm the only one on frequency flying into a sleepy Class D then I'll say the whole thing. If I'm getting FF on a XC flight and am switched to a busier TRACON I just give the callsign.
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If you're receiving radar flight following and are handed off to the next sector, on initial contact you should always provide your current altitude. "XYZ Approach, N1234, level/climbing through/descending through 4,200." Keep in mind that the controller had to click on your target to accept the handoff, and he knows you're coming onto the frequency, thus eliminating the need for a cold call. They will need to verify your altitude assuming you have a transponder.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Have a friend or your wife change everything in that transmission. Now YOU play the controller. Make believe that you are trying to cut an ATIS or you're listening to the clearance read back of another plane on a different frequency.

Now have the wife or friend rattle all that off to you and see how much you retain.

Call up with the call sign first. Then when they acknowledge you, rattle off everything else.
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Depends on each person and facility. Like I said in my other post, my airport wants you to say everything at once because they are so busy. It's worked at my airport and worked at every other airport I've flown into.
 
Who I'm calling, Who I am, Where I am, What I want, What information I have. Never a cold call. That's a waste of everyone's time. I get as much info about other planes in the area from their calls as tower does. My pet peeve is guys providing sloppy position locations. "Coming up on" is worthless. Tell us where you are.

This is as good a pilot comm guide as I've seen. http://www.westwingsinc.com/vfrcomm.pdf
 
luvflyin said:
T ... A lot has to do with the customer. That ranges from one thing at a time to practically every thing at once for the regulars.
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I spent several hours plugged in with a TRACON controller one time and his supervisor was kind enough to rotate us through all the positions. When talking on the Class B approach frequencies (almost 100% airline traffic) my guy spoke at least 20% faster than he did when he was working one of the bugsmasher sectors. When I made that observation he was surprised --- he hadn't even realized it!
 
EdFred said:
All in one building here.
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Yeah, but routing all that through the same console?

Oakland Center and Oakland Oceanuc FIR are in the same building, but you would need one hell of a shouting voice to cover both. They also have different displays and different equipment (oceanic radar is near shore only, and rather minimal). And the weather unit is in the middle.
 
denverpilot said:
Ummm... Just going to beat my head on my desk on a Monday morning at this one...
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Some people just don't realize that digital radios are much older than analog, and hand crank HF antennas attached to a telegraph key haven't been used since before WW2.

I think he's referring to CPDLC, which can cut down on a lot of radio traffic, at least in principle, but seems ill suited for approach. And I've never heard of a light aircraft with that capability, nor would I want it without a SIC.
 
I've always gone by the dictum "who I am, where I am, and what I want". Indeed that litany goes through my head whenever I make a radio call. After all, the first call to any controller is "cold". All that said, calling center controllers for things like radar advisories or airspace transit may start with just my tail number and a request if they sound busy. I can give them the rest when they call back and have time to listen to it. One assumes that the OP is taking a few seconds to listen to the frequency before making any of these radio calls.
 
eman1200 said:
that's exactly how you're supposed to do it. introduce yourself, they'll respond, then u tell them what u want.
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I'm with you. Maybe not necessarily when calling ground, I don't see an issue with giving them a little extra information to expedite the process (not saying that is how I typically do it). But as far as calling up a tower while en route when they aren't expecting me already or approach control to pick up a clearance in the air or get flight following, I'm going to give them a call with just my call sign to keep it simple and let them get back to me when they're ready. Which experience has taught me, especially operating just outside a busy class B airport, isn't always right away.

"Local Approach, Cherokee 1234 WT"
"Cherokee 1234 WT, Local Approach"
"1234 WT, departing ABC out of 2,000 for 4,500, request flight following to XYZ"

To me it makes sense to call up and wait for a response then to say that whole schpeil (no idea how that is supposed to be spelled) when the controller is busy and only have to repeat it all again later. Seems to me that takes up more air time than the other way.
 
I rarely just give my tail number. Usually, it's "Memphis center,Cherokee November 1234 Zulu flight following request"

"Departure, Cherokee 1234 Zulu at Tusla air with Mike, I'd like to pick up my clearance"

"Little rock approach, Cherokee 1234 Zulu 15 to the west three thousand fife hundred transitioning eastbound"

Sussinct always works best for me. Never been chastised or otherwise.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I usually start with, "Tucson ground, Cherokee 5660U" and wait for a response. Then after they repond I tell them what I want. A lot of times controllers are clearance delivery and ground control combined with both VHF and UHF frequencies to listen to. Many times I've heard them respond to another aircraft on another frequency before they get back to me if they get back to me at all. So at first I keep things short just in case they can't respond. No need giving them the whole schpeal if they can't respond. It also gives them a chance to write the call sign down because they will screw it up quite a bit when they type it in to get the squawk. I've been Oscar Uniform, Zulu Uniform and Zero four...before.

But an initial call up on ground for a VFR departure is always a cold call.
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You should never, ever be called "Oscar" by ATC if there is a round character in your tail number. ;)
 
Perfect example of how the "cold call" is done. Warning - language!

 
HA!...I saw that earlier and though it was great to hear the other side hoping it is real. Should be required listening for all pilots before calling up ATC!
 
For me, I always 'cold call' on the first transmission. Most of the time when I call up approach, is when I've just departed a satellite airport on the edge of controlled airspace. Instead of just calling up approach and giving them all the information at once, I feel like it is better to get their "attention" so to speak and just say "XXX Approach Cessna 12345" and wait for them to come back to you, rather then overload them with 'XX Approach, Cessna 12345 is just off XXX looking to pick up flight following to XXX at 6500'". You will find that sometimes depending on the controlling agency, you will say the latter and they will come back with "Cessna 345 standby" or "Cessna 345 what was your destination again", especially if you tune into their freq and they are pretty busy. On the other hand if I am already talking to ATC and I get a handoff, then I don't cold call, only on the first transmission to ATC. Just my 2 cents.
 
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