Clearance Delivery/Cancellation without RCO

[peerlesscowboy]

Prob'ly been discussed a gazzilion times already but I'll ask it again;
Just got my new (to me) GNS430W installed and been out playing with my new toys (VFR w/safety pilot).
Back in the dark ages (before GPS) you could almost assume that if an airport sported an IAP it would have also a remote communications relay to talk directly to either ATC or FSS on the ground with the radio. I notice a lot of these airports that never had IAP's before and now have RNAV (GPS) procedures only don't have RCO's, so.........how do ya'll contact somebody to either pick up or cancel your clearance when the weather's down? I assume that weather permitting it works best to just take off and pick it up airborne and cancel when you're still high enough to talk to ATC but when the weather's low you can't do that. So, do you use your cell phone to call 1-888-766-8267 for clearance delivery on the ground (assuming cell service is available)? And do you use the same number to cancel after you're down?

 

[azure]

In a lot of cases there will be a frequency for Approach or Center associated with the airport, listed in the A/FD or in ForeFlight. In some cases you can reach those frequencies on the ground (I am currently based at such an airport). If not, and if there is no RCO or FSS frequency that works from the ground, then another possibility is a phone call to the ATC facility (Approach or Center) that owns the overlying controlled airspace. Even if not published, local pilots or the airport manager probably know that number and may be willing to give it to you - I still have the number for Saginaw Approach from one of the airport people at KIKW, though I never had occasion to use it. This was also the usual procedure when departing IFR from my old home field KVLL - the number for Detroit Approach was posted on the wall at the terminal.

If nothing else is available, though, you might have to fall back on 888-766-8267. I've yet to do that, only because I've never had to, though I've been in places where there would have been no other recourse if I couldn't depart VFR.

 

[Arrow67]

At my home field I have had to call the 800 # on non vfr days. One day they told me it would be a 20 minute wait because of arriving and departing aircraft at a neighboring field. I gave them my cell number and they called me back when they had my clearance ready. They were very accommodating.

 

[JasonM]

I didn't even know there was a national clearance delivery number. I've been calling the 1800wxbrief number without an onsite freq. Hopefully it is faster. I waited 45 minutes once for an IFR clearance over the phone.

 

[peerlesscowboy]

I didn't even know there was a national clearance delivery number. I've been calling the 1800wxbrief number without an onsite freq. Hopefully it is faster. I waited 45 minutes once for an IFR clearance over the phone.

I think the number I posted is still current altho' I haven't used it for awhile, it connects you to FSS for a relay anywhere in the country but unlike the 1800wxbrief # it's less congested because it's only used for clearance delivery and (I assume?) cancellation.

 

[poadeleted20]

Back in the dark ages (before GPS) you could almost assume that if an airport sported an IAP it would have also a remote communications relay to talk directly to either ATC or FSS on the ground with the radio.

I don't remember that being true. To the contrary, I remember a lot of running from the pay phone to the airplane to get in the air before the void time ran out.

I notice a lot of these airports that never had IAP's before and now have RNAV (GPS) procedures only don't have RCO's, so.........how do ya'll contact somebody to either pick up or cancel your clearance when the weather's down?

Cell phone, calling either:

1. ATC directly
2. National IFR clearance number (888-766-8267)
3. FSS (800-WX-BRIEF)

I assume that weather permitting it works best to just take off and pick it up airborne and cancel when you're still high enough to talk to ATC but when the weather's low you can't do that.

There are a lot of other reasons for not doing that besides low weather. Before you take off VFR to pick up an IFR clearance airborne, you should already know what we’re going to do if the reply to the initial call to ATC is not “radar contact, cleared as filed” but is any of following:

1. N12345, Boondock Approach, you are below my radar coverage and below the MEA; you’ll have to climb VFR to [1000 above the base of the solid overcast] before I can issue a clearance.

2. N12345, Boondock Approach, unable to accept additional traffic, expect one-zero minute delay, remain clear of Class B airspace and maintain VFR.

3. N12345, Boondock Approach, radar contact, cleared to [an intersection you never heard of] via [a route you neither filed nor planned], turn left heading [directly into a maturing thunderstorm], climb and maintain [an altitude at which moderate rime/mixed ice is forecast], when receiving [a VOR station you can’t find on the L-chart] proceed direct.

What are you going to do in each of these cases?

So, do you use your cell phone to call 1-888-766-8267 for clearance delivery on the ground (assuming cell service is available)?

I do, assuming there's no direct phone number to the cognizant ATC facility (I have quite a few of those stored in my cell phone).

And do you use the same number to cancel after you're down?

Again, I prefer to use a direct line to ATC, but if that's not available, I'll use the national IFR number.

 

[James331]

Yup, just call the 888 number on the ground (nice to have a Bluetooth headset here), or ideally if you can just do it in the air, before you loose reception.

 

[frfly172]

Yup, just call the 888 number on the ground (nice to have a Bluetooth headset here), or ideally if you can just do it in the air, before you loose reception.

Have to love the 888 number,hasn't failed me yet.

 

[LDJones]

You definitely want to use the 888 to get your clearance. Calling FSS to cancel works fine.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I don't remember that being true. To the contrary, I remember a lot of running from the pay phone to the airplane to get in the air before the void time ran out.

First thought I had when reading John's post, right after the "huh?" :wink2:

Yes, I use the National CD number if a CD RCO or direct line (telephone or radio) is not available.

For cancellation, I might also use a FSS frequency reachable from the ground.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I didn't even know there was a national clearance delivery number. I've been calling the 1800wxbrief number without an onsite freq. Hopefully it is faster. I waited 45 minutes once for an IFR clearance over the phone.

I think it's been available for 7-8 years now. Much faster since, if for no other reason, it's deducated. No long line of folks looking for a briefing on that widespread IMC day.

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

There are a lot of other reasons for not doing that besides low weather. Before you take off VFR to pick up an IFR clearance airborne, you should already know what we’re going to do if the reply to the initial call to ATC is not “radar contact, cleared as filed” but is any of following:

1. N12345, Boondock Approach, you are below my radar coverage and below the MEA; you’ll have to climb VFR to [1000 above the base of the solid overcast] before I can issue a clearance.

2. N12345, Boondock Approach, unable to accept additional traffic, expect one-zero minute delay, remain clear of Class B airspace and maintain VFR.

3. N12345, Boondock Approach, radar contact, cleared to [an intersection you never heard of] via [a route you neither filed nor planned], turn left heading [directly into a maturing thunderstorm], climb and maintain [an altitude at which moderate rime/mixed ice is forecast], when receiving [a VOR station you can’t find on the L-chart] proceed direct.

1. Would not depart with 1,000 OVC.
2. Fly VFR.
3. Earn my paycheck.

 

[peerlesscowboy]

You definitely want to use the 888 to get your clearance. Calling FSS to cancel works fine.

Yes, I've called the 888# for my clearance many times coming off my ranch strip in low weather. Haven't used it before to cancel tho' since coming back in here with no IAP I have to be visual at MIA or above to cancel and I can talk to center on the radio at that altitude. Does the 888# work as well or better than the wxbrief# for cancelling as well as delivery?

 

[JasonM]

I think it's been available for 7-8 years now. Much faster since, if for no other reason, it's deducated. No long line of folks looking for a briefing on that widespread IMC day.

I have added it to my cell phone. I will be giving it a try next time for sure.

 

[Kritchlow]

Not for picking up a clearance, but for canceling I have often used a very simple method. I keep the last ATC freq and bounce my cancellation off another aircraft on the freq. I try not to do that if its a busy frequency because you could inadvertently cover an ATC instruction, but in a pinch it works well.

 

[poadeleted20]

Have to love the 888 number,hasn't failed me yet.

Doesn't always work. Tried that one in the NY area a few weeks ago and they just gave me the direct number to NY TRACON. Only problem was the reason I'd called the 888 number was that NY TRACON wasn't answering the phone (neither the commercial 516 number nor the toll-free 800 number). The LockMart folks said the way they got the clearance from NY was to call the TRACON on those phone numbers so they couldn't help. At that point, the only thing left was to take off and pick it up airborne -- which (after getting the clearance) elicited a "Why didn't you phone us before takeoff?"

Fortunately, it was excellent VFR weather and they were able to give us the clearance right away, although it we did get a completely different route than we'd filed -- good practice for my trainee reprogramming the KLN-94 in flight. She was glad she had an autopilot. :wink2: But if the weather hadn't allowed that option, we'd've been stuck on the ground until someone answered the phone at the TRACON.

 

[poadeleted20]

1. Would not depart with 1,000 OVC.

Didn't say 1000 OVC, I said they wanted you to climb VFR to an altitude 1000 above the bases. They often want you 2000 AGL or higher to pick up your clearance, and that means you need a ceiling of at least 2500 to get that high legally under VFR.

2. Fly VFR.

That's what the pilots in that Beechjet tried -- and failed, fatally.

3. Earn my paycheck.

I've never been paid enough in my civilian flying to fly into that sort of weather.

 

[FlatPiglet]

Another vote for the 888 number....

..until that time I dropped off an Angel flight passenger somewhere in Northern Maine...and discovered there was no cellphone coverage, the airport was unattended, there was no landline available. And with a ceiling of about 1000' I wasn't going to depart VFR. Eventually got 1 bar of reception standing in the rain on some storage bins...happy days.

 

[Banjo33]

Another vote for the 888 number....

..until that time I dropped off an Angel flight passenger somewhere in Northern Maine...and discovered there was no cellphone coverage, the airport was unattended, there was no landline available. And with a ceiling of about 1000' I wasn't going to depart VFR. Eventually got 1 bar of reception standing in the rain on some storage bins...happy days.

Yeah but now you've got a good story to tell!

 

[aterpster]

An instrument approach cannot be established unless there is reliable VHF communications with either ATC or FSS at the IAF(s). That can be a long way from the airport at some locations.

 

[peerlesscowboy]

An instrument approach cannot be established unless there is reliable VHF communications with either ATC or FSS at the IAF(s). That can be a long way from the airport at some locations.

Interesting, do they ever establish a minimum altitude at the IAF based on reliable VHF communications?

 

[aterpster]

Interesting, do they ever establish a minimum altitude at the IAF based on reliable VHF communications?

Good question. I don't know the answer but I suspect they do. Flight inspection could determine that altitude then the designers could raise the altitude provided descent gradient limits are observed.

Unicom can be used as well. But, the Unicom operator has to sign a letter of agreement with the FAA that sets forth the requirements. I suspect this isn't done very often except perhaps in Alaska.