Clearance / Delivery at Class D Airfield

Bman.

Bman.

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jul 20, 2014
Messages
171
Location
Springfield, Missouri
Display Name
Display name:
Bman.
The family and I took a jump over to St. Louis today. It was a great day trip for everyone and I got the side benefit of going for a flight. I was going to go flying any way so we might as well had gone to a destination. The flying was great but I botched my radio calls a bit at KCPS.

Question about C&D at Class D airfields. I've read that if the frequency is listed, use it. At my local airfield, ATIS tell you to call C&D. So, I called C&D and told them where I was, where I was going with information Lima. I received a departure frequency, no code... but the controller included taxi instructions. It didn't sink in. I called up ground ready to go and the controller was pretty short as they had to repeat the taxi instructions. Duh. It was the same person and I should have taken a clue that since I received taxi instructions from C&D that it would have been the same ground controller.

So, the question is, do you always call C&D for VFR departures at Class D airfields? Should the controller told me to contact ground in lieu of giving me taxi instructions on the C&D frequency? In general, it made for a confusing event. Even the wife was like "You screwed that one up!".. ha.
 
Last edited:
Listen to the ATIS. They'll usually tell you what to do. There's no set answer.
 
Unless I know the specific local custom which can vary, I will always start with CD if there is a CD frequency unless otherwise instructed to start with ground by ATIS or AF/D.

You said local airfield...if is it is somewhere you go into to once in a while I personally would have no problem asking them on frequency which THEY prefer for VFR call up so you know next time.
 
When I say local field, I am talking about my hometown KSGF. They always say to contact C&D on the ATIS.
This was my first trip into KCPS. ATIS didn't mention it but it was listed on the AF/D so I called them up first. The whole taxi instruction from C&D was what threw me off. Not a big deal though, I just went to ground and heard the same instructions, from the same controller and away we went.

(EDIT) - Why give taxi instructions on C&D ..ever. It's not like you are going to skip ground control just because C&D said to go via.
 
Bman. said:
EDIT) - Why give taxi instructions on C&D ..ever. It's not like you are going to skip ground control just because C&D said to go via.
Click to expand...

He should have added something to the effect of "...and monitor ground" if he did not wanna hear from you again otherwise you were correct in calling up ground as you described it.
 
Bman. said:
When I say local field, I am talking about my hometown KSGF. They always say to contact C&D on the ATIS.
This was my first trip into KCPS. ATIS didn't mention it but it was listed on the AF/D so I called them up first. The whole taxi instruction from C&D was what threw me off. Not a big deal though, I just went to ground and heard the same instructions, from the same controller and away we went.

(EDIT) - Why give taxi instructions on C&D ..ever. It's not like you are going to skip ground control just because C&D said to go via.
Click to expand...

To start with it's CD, Clearance Delivery, not C&D. Often they will combine positions, in this case GC with CD, so that is why the controller issued you taxi instructions on the CD frequency. But as Shawn mentioned above, the controller should have added "monitor ground".
 
Last edited:
did they say anything like "advise when ready to taxi"? if they did and u confirmed, then they gave u taxi instructions, I think it should have been a little clearer.
 
Yeah, you talk to CD its the guy. Same guy on ground. Same guy on tower. But hey, they are the bigtime right?
 
To echo what's been said, depending on the size of the airport or how busy they currently are, ground control will take care of the clearance in many cases. Always listen to ATIS beforehand and it'll tell you all you need to know. If there's a specific CD freq they'll list it.
 
At my home field, KORL, CD is done on ground. But the ATIS says this so you know.
 
jsstevens said:
At my home field, KORL, CD is done on ground. But the ATIS says this so you know.
Click to expand...

If there's a dedicated CD position the frequency will be published. If approach control is on the airport also sometimes they will have CD there, also on a dedicated frequency.
 
Bman. said:
So, the question is, do you always call C&D for VFR departures at Class D airfields? Should the controller told me to contact ground in lieu of giving me taxi instructions on the C&D frequency? In general, it made for a confusing event. Even the wife was like "You screwed that one up!".. ha.
Click to expand...
In general listen to the ATIS and do what it says. There might be a CD freq listed, but if you're VFR you generally don't need to call (unless the ATIS says to), you can just call up ground and get taxi for your VFR departure. Class D airports with a lot of IFR departures will often have a separate CD freq to avoid clogging up the ground freq (on airports without a CD freq the IFR departures will be asking for their clearance from ground).

For Class D VFR departures you can sometimes get flight following setup on the ground by asking on the CD freq or ground but it can be hit and miss and you likely won't find any published material telling you who does this and who doesn't so you just have to ask if you're unfamiliar--worst case they'll just give you a frequency to contact after departure.

There can be similar unwritten rules and expectations on Class D arrival. I flew with a friend into Class D KHPN (Westchester County) over the summer and inbound the airport operates like a Class C in that it's local custom that you're supposed to call up approach and get a code for radar sequencing before being handed off to tower. The frequencies in use can change sometimes on a daily basis. You won't find any of this written anywhere... it's just the sort of thing the locals know. You'd think the ATIS would say something like "inbound VFR traffic contact NY Approach on XXX.XX within 20 miles for a transponder code" but it doesn't.
 
Unless ATIS tells me to call CD, I have never called CD at a Class D airport for a VFR departure. That includes some of the busiest Class Ds in the US.

Unless ATIS tells me not to call CD, I have always called CD at a Class C airport for a VFR departure.

So far, it's worked out for 26 years I've been flying. Sorry, can't tell you how many of the 177 different airports my logbook says I've been to were towered, but I'd guess 30-40.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Unless ATIS tells me to call CD, I have never called CD at a Class D airport for a VFR departure. That includes some of the busiest Class Ds in the US.
Click to expand...

Is there a distinction between VFR with Flight Following or just a VFR departure with no FF when deciding to ping CC for not?

No FF at a Delta with CD, ground seems like a fine place to start.
 
rocketflyer84 said:
There can be similar unwritten rules and expectations on Class D arrival. I flew with a friend into Class D KHPN (Westchester County) over the summer and inbound the airport operates like a Class C in that it's local custom that you're supposed to call up approach and get a code for radar sequencing before being handed off to tower. The frequencies in use can change sometimes on a daily basis. You won't find any of this written anywhere... it's just the sort of thing the locals know. You'd think the ATIS would say something like "inbound VFR traffic contact NY Approach on XXX.XX within 20 miles for a transponder code" but it doesn't.
Click to expand...
CYS Cheyenne WY is similar. The tower is staffed by the Air Force so you get the full treatment. It's not like they are busy or anything but it is the state capital so I suppose they think they rate approach control.
 
Shawn said:
Is there a distinction between VFR with Flight Following or just a VFR departure with no FF when deciding to ping CC for not?
Click to expand...
None I have noticed. It may be a more efficient way to obtain and relay a squawk code but separating Clearance Delivery is mostly for the more lengthy dialogue involved in, well, Delivering Clearances and Class C departure instructions.

Of course, as others point out, there are local practices. Some published, some not.

I can see a very busy Class D that regularly assigns FF codes deciding to move that to CD but if they don't like pilots calling Ground for that, they should say something.

@Clark1961 mentioned KCYS. When Pueblo KPUB had its own Approach controllers, it was SOP for Ground to assign a squawk to all VFR departures unless you specifically declined it. Still no CD involvement, though. (I don't know if that has changed since Denver Approach took over)
 
Last edited:
Just a comment on PUB. It has one of the Air Force's contract flight intro programs which means there are a whole bunch of DA-20s around. Of course the Air Force wants the whole experience with full ATC coverage for their students. Also anybody going there will want to be talking to ATC because of all the training flights. The AF/D mentions the training activity and lists freqs for Denver Approach or Denver Center depending on time of day.

It's sorta weird talking to Denver Approach at PUB when flying from Denver. Ya talk to Den Approach leaving Denver then talk to Springs Approach and then Denver Approach again. Were the powers that be concerned that a guy setting in Denver would forget he was working PUB and couldn't say Pueblo Approach?
 
Clark1961 said:
Just a comment on PUB. It has one of the Air Force's contract flight intro programs which means there are a whole bunch of DA-20s around. Of course the Air Force wants the whole experience with full ATC coverage for their students. Also anybody going there will want to be talking to ATC because of all the training flights. The AF/D mentions the training activity and lists freqs for Denver Approach or Denver Center depending on time of day.

It's sorta weird talking to Denver Approach at PUB when flying from Denver. Ya talk to Den Approach leaving Denver then talk to Springs Approach and then Denver Approach again. Were the powers that be concerned that a guy setting in Denver would forget he was working PUB and couldn't say Pueblo Approach?
Click to expand...
It's not only Pueblo that is "remote". Grand Junction is also handled by Denver Approach.
 
Bman. said:
The family and I took a jump over to St. Louis today. It was a great day trip for everyone and I got the side benefit of going for a flight. I was going to go flying any way so we might as well had gone to a destination. The flying was great but I botched my radio calls a bit at KCPS.

Question about C&D at Class D airfields. I've read that if the frequency is listed, use it. At my local airfield, ATIS tell you to call C&D. So, I called C&D and told them where I was, where I was going with information Lima. I received a departure frequency, no code... but the controller included taxi instructions. It didn't sink in. I called up ground ready to go and the controller was pretty short as they had to repeat the taxi instructions. Duh. It was the same person and I should have taken a clue that since I received taxi instructions from C&D that it would have been the same ground controller.

So, the question is, do you always call C&D for VFR departures at Class D airfields? Should the controller told me to contact ground in lieu of giving me taxi instructions on the C&D frequency? In general, it made for a confusing event. Even the wife was like "You screwed that one up!".. ha.
Click to expand...
It literally does not matter. It's gonna be the same guy 90% of the time unless you're in a crazy busy east- or west-coast airport. I'd call them first, but if taxi instructions are included, you don't need to call ground.
 
If the atis says call up CD, I call it. If it doesn't I just contact ground to taxi and they'll either give me my clearance or tell me to call CD at runup.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top