Class G and Class E airspace Qs

[kicktireslightfires]

I feel a little dumb asking this but I think I have some confusion between G and E because I thought G goes up to 1,200 AGL and then Class E takes over from there up to 17,999 MSL, at which point Class A takes over. In looking at an airspace reference chart, I see that Class G goes up to 14,500 MSL in some areas. Where? Where is G 700 feet, where is it 1200 feet, and where does it extend up to 14,500?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Generally speaking, what you thought is correct. Except there are exceptions. LOL

Do you have a sectional? Do you see all those magenta circles around a bunch of uncontrolled (pilot controlled?) airports? That is where uncontrolled airspace drops from 1,200 feet down to 700 feet. The reason for that is to have Class E weather requirements down to a lower altitude around airports with a published instrument approach procedure. That supposedly protects an airplane flying an instrument approach in less than 1,000 and 3 weather to a lower altitude. Did that make sense?

There is not much Class G airspace to 14,500 feet anymore. You would find that out west where there is not much population and not much traffic.

 

[luvflyin]

I feel a little dumb asking this but I think I have some confusion between G and E because I thought G goes up to 1,200 AGL and then Class E takes over from there up to 17,999 MSL, at which point Class A takes over. In looking at an airspace reference chart, I see that Class G goes up to 14,500 MSL in some areas. Where? Where is G 700 feet, where is it 1200 feet, and where does it extend up to 14,500?

Thanks in advance!

It helps to look at it from the top down instead of the bottom up. Everything above 14,500 is Class E. Look way to the left in that pic. That’s done by regulation and is not Charted. See AIM 3-2-6 c. and d. Now start working down. Where does it go lower(which is just about everywhere nowadays) and what does it look like. In areas surrounded by blue shaded vignette, it goes down to 1200. Magenta shaded vignette, down to 700. Areas where there is Surface Area, well, self explanatory. There are some exceptions where it’s higher and they are Charted with what some call ‘zipper’ lines. See the pic below. You can see where it goes down to 2000, 1700, 1200(although not readily apparent, you’d have to expand out), 700 and the surface. There is Class C, D and E Surface Area.

 

[Larry in TN]

There is a lot of world out there that isn't the 48 contiguous United States.

In the 48 CONUS, there used to be a lot of areas where Class G extended upward to 14,500' MSL, particularly west of the Front Range. The widespread implementation of RNAV, specifically GPS, in aircraft operating under IFR created a need for more off-airway controlled airspace to accommodate more off-airway direct routing. The result was the near-elimination of uncontrolled airspace above 1,200' AGL in the CONUS.

Controlled airspace descends below 1,200' in the vicinity of airports in order to support instrument approach operations, keeping them in controlled airspace for the majority of, if not all off, the instrument approach.

I've operated IFR from an airport (FJDG) over which uncontrolled airspace extended upward to, but not including, FL245. Stuff like that is still out there, but you aren't going to see it flying around California or Indiana.

 

[RRAT]

Where is G 700 feet, where is it 1200 feet, and where does it extend up to 14,500?

The 14500 foot level is almost entirely eliminated in the U.S. by expansion of Echo. You can see one example on the Seattle Sectional, just off the NW coast. Look for the fuzzy faded blue line. That is G going up to 14500. There is supposedly another example in the SW U.S. somewhere, but I have yet to find it.

 

[AggieMike88]

Not much "up to 14,500" Class G left in the US.

One space I like to use to stump my students is in the Big Bend area of Texas. Find the 1E2 airport (Teralingua Ranch) and look east.

Bonus question for you.... What is the defining item that makes some airspace Class E and the nearby airspace Class G?

For more help with airspace, the various topics on www.Boldmethod.com are really good.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

There is supposedly another example in the SW U.S. somewhere, but I have yet to find it.

Western NM. Look due west from Socorro. A fairly large block which just touches AZ. Just to the east of it is the VLA.

There used to be some slivers of it just SW of Page AZ and tiny slivers to the SE of Blythe CA in AZ, just north of the R areas, but these were eliminated about 2 years ago.

 

[luvflyin]

Not much "up to 14,500" Class G left in the US.

One space I like to use to stump my students is in the Big Bend area of Texas. Find the 1E2 airport (Teralingua Ranch) and look east.

Bonus question for you.... What is the defining item that makes some airspace Class E and the nearby airspace Class G?

For more help with airspace, the various topics on www.Boldmethod.com are really good.

Do you mean this?

 

[kicktireslightfires]

Not much "up to 14,500" Class G left in the US.

One space I like to use to stump my students is in the Big Bend area of Texas. Find the 1E2 airport (Teralingua Ranch) and look east.

Bonus question for you.... What is the defining item that makes some airspace Class E and the nearby airspace Class G?

For more help with airspace, the various topics on www.Boldmethod.com are really good.

Is that flipped Florida looking piece of airspace Golf up to 14,500?

 

[kicktireslightfires]

Is this also Golf up to 14,500 just west of Van Nuys airport in southern California?

 

[luvflyin]

Is that flipped Florida looking piece of airspace Golf up to 14,500?

Yes

 

[luvflyin]

Is this also Golf up to 14,500 just west of Van Nuys airport in southern California?

No. If you expand way out, like to the Canadian and Mexican border you will see Blue Vignette that shows what’s on the other side of that Magenta Vignette is 1200 foot floor E. When 700 foot E is adjacent to G, it says Class G on the Chart.

 

[dtuuri]

Is this also Golf up to 14,500 just west of Van Nuys airport in southern California?

Heh.. What you see there is V38(?) running along a magenta (700') border. Looks like blue tint, but not.

 

[luvflyin]

Heh.. What you see there is V38(?) running along a magenta (700') border. Looks like blue tint, but not.

It’s 386. But the airway has nothing to do with what he asked. Betcha he didn’t even notice it. @kicktireslightfires ???

 

[Shawn]

Honestly as PPL I never got my head around the difference and logic between G and E UNTIL after I both got my IFR ticket and started flying paramotors under part 103...G is clear of clouds, E is 152...G is 1200' pretty much by default except around airports that have an instrument approach where it drops down to 700' so that when an IFR plane pops out of the clouds there is not another VFR plane or 103 operator playing just clear of the clouds. Protects the IFR approach airspace a bit more.

 

[Marshall Alexander]

Honestly as PPL I never got my head around the difference and logic between G and E UNTIL after I both got my IFR ticket and started flying paramotors under part 103...G is clear of clouds, E is 152...G is 1200' pretty much by default except around airports that have an instrument approach where it drops down to 700' so that when an IFR plane pops out of the clouds there is not another VFR plane or 103 operator playing just clear fo the clouds. Protects the IFR approach airspace a bit more.

My thoughts exactly. You explained it very clearly......thank you.

 

[farmrjohn]

G is clear of clouds, E is 152...G is 1200' pretty much by default except around airports that have an instrument approach where it drops down to 700' so that when an IFR plane pops out of the clouds there is not another VFR plane or 103 operator playing just clear of the clouds. Protects the IFR approach airspace a bit more.

Well, except most of Southern California, is almost all 700' E

 

[luvflyin]

Well, except most of Southern California, is almost all 700' E

Lotsa airports makes for lotsa 700. But almost all is a stretch. Depending on your definition of Socal. There are huge chunks of 1200 by most definitions of Socal

 

[flyingron]

.G is clear of clouds, E is 152...

During the daytime. It's 3 and 152 at night.

 

[TommyG]

Let’s not forget Class E surface based.

 

[farmrjohn]

Lotsa airports makes for lotsa 700. But almost all is a stretch. Depending on your definition of Socal. There are huge chunks of 1200 by most definitions of Socal

I should have been more specific-most of "habitable" Southern California. Starting from Ventura and extending down to the Mexican border is mostly all 700' E with the exception of Camp Pendleton and the San Mateo Canyon Wilderness Area. With the built up areas makes a special VFR clearance out of any of the controlled fields pretty difficult without at least a 1500' ceiling.

 

[Shawn]

During the daytime. It's 3 and 152 at night.

Good lord...and yeah, Part 103 that I referenced can not part at night as well...do we really need to spell out ever possible scenario and if/then scenario in the FARs when making a point?

 

[EdFred]

Good lord...and yeah, Part 103 that I referenced can not part at night as well...do we really need to spell out ever possible scenario and if/then scenario in the FARs when making a point?

As long as there is someone named Ron on the board, yes. This one is picking up the slack for the last one.

 

[luvflyin]

I should have been more specific-most of "habitable" Southern California. Starting from Ventura and extending down to the Mexican border is mostly all 700' E with the exception of Camp Pendleton and the San Mateo Canyon Wilderness Area. With the built up areas makes a special VFR clearance out of any of the controlled fields pretty difficult without at least a 1500' ceiling.

Some would say all of California is uninhabitable Not sure what your getting at with the 1500' ceiling thing. SVFR only applies where the floor of Controlled Airspace is the surface. Could be B, C, D or E although it's usually prohibited in B's and C's, but not always. Clear of Clouds and 1 mile Visibility is all you need.

 

[farmrjohn]

Some would say all of California is uninhabitable Not sure what your getting at with the 1500' ceiling thing. SVFR only applies where the floor of Controlled Airspace is the surface. Could be B, C, D or E although it's usually prohibited in B's and C's, but not always. Clear of Clouds and 1 mile Visibility is all you need.

Yes, that's why I put the quotation marks around habitable. Yes, for the SVFR you would get that clearance from a tower. If you transition into G airspace you just need the 1 mile and clear of clouds but still need to avoid the built up areas by 1000'. If the bottom of E is at 700', now you need the 500' below the clouds, hence 1500' ceiling: 500' below plus 1000' above. If the 700' E was just associated with a single airport then went back to 1200' rather than a blanket approach like SOCAL it would be possible (perhaps not wise) to go VFR clear of clouds in G.

 

[luvflyin]

Yes, that's why I put the quotation marks around habitable. Yes, for the SVFR you would get that clearance from a tower. If you transition into G airspace you just need the 1 mile and clear of clouds but still need to avoid the built up areas by 1000'. If the bottom of E is at 700', now you need the 500' below the clouds, hence 1500' ceiling: 500' below plus 1000' above. If the 700' E was just associated with a single airport then went back to 1200' rather than a blanket approach like SOCAL it would be possible (perhaps not wise) to go VFR clear of clouds in G.

Ah. Gotcha.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Clear of Clouds and 1 mile Visibility is all you need.

If you have a medical. Under sport pilot rules you need 3 miles.
More exceptions and quirks than you can shake a stick at.

 

[luvflyin]

If you have a medical. Under sport pilot rules you need 3 miles.
More exceptions and quirks than you can shake a stick at.

How'd medical get into this? 3 miles for what? All the time in G, even daytime? How does it figure with SVFR? I think soon I'm going to be posting,..... ah hell, I'm gonna do it know. Substitute FAR 61 for drugs

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

How'd medical get into this? 3 miles for what?

61.305 What are the privileges and limits of my sport pilot certificate?
(c) You may not act as pilot in command of a light-sport aircraft:
(12) When the flight or surface visibility is less than 3 statute miles.
(13) Without visual reference to the surface.

As a private pilot, which set of rules apply depends on if you have a medical or not.

 

[luvflyin]

61.305 What are the privileges and limits of my sport pilot certificate?
(c) You may not act as pilot in command of a light-sport aircraft:
(12) When the flight or surface visibility is less than 3 statute miles.
(13) Without visual reference to the surface.

As a private pilot, which set of rules apply depends on if you have a medical or not.

My brain hurts

 

[Marshall Alexander]

How'd medical get into this? 3 miles for what? All the time in G, even daytime? How does it figure with SVFR? I think soon I'm going to be posting,..... ah hell, I'm gonna do it know. Substitute FAR 61 for drugs

Anywhere 1 mile vis is stated in the FAR's.....it's three miles for SP.

 

[luvflyin]

Anywhere 1 mile vis is stated in the FAR's.....it's three miles for SP.

I didn’t think you even needed to be able to see 3 miles for SP.