Class C Question

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quitty123456789

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quitty123456789
Hi, I'm currently a student pilot and trying to learn the ropes of ATC communication and I have a couple of questions that you guys can hopefully answer.

1) My first question is about airports that are in close proximity to a Class C, but not in it. Just as an example, let's say I'm flying from Reno (RNO) to Sacramento Mather (MHR). On the sectional chart, due to the proximity of the Sacramento International Airport Class C airspace, it says to contact NorCal Approach on 125.4 within 20nm. Sacramento Mather is 16nm from Sacramento International Airport and 6nm from the outer ring of Sacramento International Airport's Class C. Do I need to contact NorCal Approach before landing at Sacramento Mather? Why or why not? If I need to contact them, what do I say? What if my airport is Yolo County (DWA), which is uncontrolled, unlike Sacramento Mather, which is controlled?

2) Using the same location as my first question, let's say I'm flying from Reno to Sacramento Executive Airport (SAC), which is 10nm to the west of Sacramento Mather Airport, and just south of the outer ring of Sacramento International's Class C. From the answer to my first question above, I'll know whether or not to contact NorCal approach. My question: is it possible to fly through the class D airspace of Sacramento Mather Airport and be handed off to Sacramento Executive Airport, or how would that work? Or should I just fly around the Sacramento Mather Airport Class D and just contact Sacramento Executive Airport because it's just less work and easier?
 
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You don't need to contact NorCal in either situation. You only NEED to contact NorCal on those frequencies if you intend to enter Class C.

As to your second scenario, you only need to contact Mather Tower if you intend to penetrate their airspace. It's easy to fly over or around Mather encounter to Executive.

Having said that, it's quite ok to contact NorCal in either situation. If you do, ATC knows your intentions further out and can advise and sequence you.

Hope this helps.
 
You should ask your instructor to teach you the ins and outs of flight following (AIM 4-1-17). When you are on FF the controllers take you through everything but Class B without you having to say a word.

Class C was established to give ATC a heads-up on traffic in their airspace, which extends far beyond the Class C marking on the sectional--about 30 miles from the primary airport. All they want to know is who you are, where you are, and your intentions. If you tell them that you want to just pass through on the way to somewhere else, they are cool with that because now they can change you from "unidentified target at xxxx feet, we're not talking to him" to a known target.

Bob Gardner
 
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Your choice,it's always better to work with ATC,rather than trying to avoid them. The more you work ATC the more confident you will be in your flying.
 
I fly out of KSAC and into and out of those other airports frequently. To answer your second question, if I am inbound to KSAC from the east and will overfly MHR, I will generally request flight following from norcal. They will hand you off to SAC at the appropriate time. I have also contacted MHR tower and then handoff to SAC but it was not smooth as just dealing with norcal.

The controllers in this sector are all very accommodating to GA traffic and I've never had a nasty experience with them even though I have mangled my share of radio calls to them.

At times there can be a fair amount of traffic in the area with Coast Guard and CalFire ops coming out of MCC, jets out of SMF, UPS and DHL jets from MHR, various med flight and police helis, and GA stuff coming from SAC. I almost always get flight following just for the additional situational awareness.
 
Your choice,it's always better to work with ATC,rather than trying to avoid them. The more you work ATC the more confident you will be in your flying.
Click to expand...

I agree, and the ATC folks are usually really nice. But, I always hate to bother them unless I really need to.
 
somorris said:
I agree, and the ATC folks are usually really nice. But, I always hate to bother them unless I really need to.
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Whoa!!!!

You are not bothering them!!!!
You are on their radar. They would rather be talking to you than wondering what you are going to do next!!

I REPEAT YOU ARE NOT BOTHERING ATC BY TALKING TO THEM!
YOU ARE HELPING THEM!!!

Edit: sorry to shout not intended to be rude.
I just used to feel the exact same way until I had my eyes opened during an ATC tour.

I posted my write up just now. Have a look at that thread maybe it will help. It was very eye opening. I had so many misconceptions about ATC prior to the tour.
 
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What does your instructor say? Probably a significantly better source than "I heard it on the internet"
 
somorris said:
I agree, and the ATC folks are usually really nice. But, I always hate to bother them unless I really need to.
Click to expand...

Tagging on to Bryan's post, controller's pay and position in the hierarchy are tied to traffic count, so every time you call a controller you are feeding his/her kids and keeping a roof over their heads.

Bob Gardner
 
somorris said:
I agree, and the ATC folks are usually really nice. But, I always hate to bother them unless I really need to.
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I think there have been some serious accidents and at least a few enforcement actions due at least in part to a desire to not "bother" ATC. I think it's somewhat related to not declaring an emergency.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Whoa!!!!

You are not bothering them!!!!
You are on their radar. They would rather be talking to you than wondering what you are going to do next!!

I REPEAT YOU ARE NOT BOTHERING ATC BY TALKING TO THEM!
YOU ARE HELPING THEM!!!

Edit: sorry to shout not intended to be rude.
I just used to feel the exact same way until I had my eyes opened during an ATC tour.

I posted my write up just now. Have a look at that thread maybe it will help. It was very eye opening. I had so many misconceptions about ATC prior to the tour.
Click to expand...
This is the way i was taught at my flight school:
If we didn't need ATC they wouldn't have a job. In a sense they work for us, but don't treat them like that. They've helped me out a lot!
Plus It's kinda cool to hear them talk to me at 5,500 and then someone at FL300.
 
KA550 said:
What does your instructor say? Probably a significantly better source than "I heard it on the internet"
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As of right now I've texted my flight instructor with no response yet. I know the Internet isn't the best source, however, everyone so far sounds like they know what they're talking about and aren't making stuff up. Also, just because what my flight instructor tells me what to do doesn't mean everyone does it and I just wanted a well-rounded idea in what to do with different opinions, if that makes sense. Everyone on here has been great giving their opinion.
 
You dont HAVE to talk to Nor Cal, but talking to them will make things easier for you and them as well. I know I can always hear a little bit of frustration in the voice of the SoCal controllers when they call traffic on a plane that isn't talking to them, but is close to someone who is. It's safer for everyone if they know who everyone is and is talking to them. The radio may sound busy, but they would prefer to have a ton of people ON frequency than a bunch who aren't.

The answer to your question is that you dont need to talk to anyone if you are staying outside of the class C/D airspace. The reality is that you should get comfortable talking to them though. I love having them watching over me, and also keeps me alert and entertained when I'm flying alone.
 
bobmrg said:
Tagging on to Bryan's post, controller's pay and position in the hierarchy are tied to traffic count, so every time you call a controller you are feeding his/her kids and keeping a roof over their heads.

Bob Gardner
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Plus, even if you *WERE* bothering them, dealing with an extra voice on the radio is << dealing with midair.
 
StinkBug said:
The answer to your question is that you dont need to talk to anyone if you are staying outside of the class C/D airspace. The reality is that you should get comfortable talking to them though. I love having them watching over me, and also keeps me alert and entertained when I'm flying alone.
Click to expand...

Yup. It's kinda like wearing a seat belt.
Maybe uncomfortable at first but eventually it becomes a part of the process and you may even feel naked without it.

I really do feel like I am working w/o a net when I am not on FF
Once in awhile I do it but no reason not to call em up.
 
quitty123456789 said:
Hi, I'm currently a student pilot and trying to learn the ropes of ATC communication and I have a couple of questions that you guys can hopefully answer.

1) My first question is about airports that are in close proximity to a Class C, but not in it. Just as an example, let's say I'm flying from Reno (RNO) to Sacramento Mather (MHR).
Click to expand...

Are you based in Reno? I did my training in Reno and this exact route was one of my first dual XC trips with my CFI (with a landing at Auburn each way too). We had Flight Following so we talked to Norcal and Oakland Center but basically went directly to the tower at Mather side we never entered the Sacramento Class C.
 
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