Class Bravo PHX Questions

dtbecker

dtbecker

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May 1, 2020
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Chandler
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dtbecker
Hello,

I'm a recent Private Pilot and just have a few questions. These are scenarios that I have just thought of for training purposes and help me learn more (I'm not going to actually fly it). This is regarding the Phoenix Class Bravo airspace overlying Phoenix Sky Harbor (KPHX).

1) Phoenix Approach has designated multiple Approach/Departure frequencies based on the heading. First, is this true course? Or is this a magnetic heading in the Chart Supplement? Also, the Chart Supplement lists specific altitudes, so does this mean I need to be at these altitudes before contacting approach?

2) Can you get permission to fly the VFR Transition route and clearance into the Class Bravo on a single transmission? Lets say I were to go from Phoenix Deer Valley (KDVT) to Chandler Municipal (KCHD) (with the Bravo transition).

I'm just mainly confused because there are multiple approach/departure frequencies.
 
Magnetic course.

Don't worry too much about the frequency. They'll switch you if you are on the wrong one.
 
Larry in TN said:
Magnetic course.

Don't worry too much about the frequency. They'll switch you if you are on the wrong one.
Click to expand...

Oh interesting. What about the altitudes? The Chart Supplement says "Below 7,500" or "7,500-12,500". If I find a frequency that corresponds to my magnetic course, but not my altitude, then do I still use that frequency? I know I'm probably overthinking this.
 
Agreed about the frequencies. Just raise them on one that works and is roughly appropriate to the area.

To request the transition you should be in the air and on frequency with approach. It usually involves multiple transmissions.

When approaching from the north or south you will say VFR with request. They will give you a transponder code. You put that in. A while later they will say radar contact and the location where they see you, usually followed by ‘say request’. You then tell them what you want, like “transition the Phoenix bravo in route to Chandler”.

They may deny it but almost always grant it and tell you to fly the east or west route (know where these are and how to find them from the chart) and assign an altitude for the transition.

Note they must say the words “cleared through the Phoenix class Bravo” before you can enter and you must acknowledge having received that clearance.

You fly that while in contact with them.

Afterwards they will tell you you are leaving the bravo and may tell you to change to code 1200 and resume own navigation or they may follow you to near the airport and then hand you off to tower.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Agreed about the frequencies. Just raise them on one that works and is roughly appropriate to the area.

To request the transition you should be in the air and on frequency with approach. It usually involves multiple transmissions.

When approaching from the north or south you will say VFR with request. They will give you a transponder code. You put that in. A while later they will say radar contact and the location where they see you, usually followed by ‘say request’. You then tell them what you want, like “transition the Phoenix bravo in route to Chandler”.

They may deny it but almost always grant it and tell you to fly the east or west route (know where these are and how to find them from the chart) and assign an altitude for the transition.

Note they must say the words “cleared through the Phoenix class Bravo” before you can enter and you must acknowledge having received that clearance.

You fly that while in contact with them.

Afterwards they will tell you you are leaving the bravo and may tell you to change to code 1200 and resume own navigation or they may follow you to near the airport and then hand you off to tower.
Click to expand...

Oh ok this makes sense. Thank you for the reply.

I figured a pilot could basically say "Phoenix Approach, N24D, VFR with a request"

Then respond "N24D is over Deer Valley, 7500 ft, requesting clearance through the Class Bravo AND the VFR transition enroute to Chandler."

This does make for a rather lengthy request. I could divide this into two calls and make it shorter though. I do know I need a specific clearance to enter the Bravo. I doubt I could be cleared for the transition but not cleared through the Bravo (because that wouldn't even make sense).
 
You learn what approach frequencies are correct for your area reasonably fast.

From Deer Valley it's generally 120.7, known as the "Biltmore" sector.

From other airports, they're different, as they're laid-out like pieces of a pie.
 
I'd shorten it up a bit.

"Phoenix Approach, N24D, Over Deer Valley at 4,100 wanting the transition to Chandler."

One call - done. Oh and if you're over DVT at 7,500 without a prior bravo clearance you're already in trouble. Just sayin'.
 
Where are you based? What are you flying?

Comanche at FFZ here.
 
Rgbeard said:
I'd shorten it up a bit.

"Phoenix Approach, N24D, Over Deer Valley at 4,100 wanting the transition to Chandler."

One call - done. Oh and if you're over DVT at 7,500 without a prior bravo clearance you're already in trouble. Just sayin'.
Click to expand...
Thank you. Everyone has been so amazingly helpful. I also chose a random altitude so 7,500 would not work. Would you happen to know where I could find these sector maps? I know the sectional chart has the frequencies based on the magnetic courses, but I want to see exactly where visually the frequencies change. For example, what area does the Biltmore sector have jurisdiction over.
 
Also - don’t over complicate things as people tend to do with Class B operations... ;)
 
dans2992 said:
Where are you based? What are you flying?

Comanche at FFZ here.
Click to expand...
Based in Chandler. Trained at Riddle up in Prescott, then switched to Scottsdale when our flightline closed. Flying the C172 G1000.
 
Here's the real answer, just not pretty.

Source: https://www.airnav.com/airport/KPHX

PHOENIX APPROACH: 119.2 ;319-057 7500 FT & ABV 120.7 ;319-057 BLW 7500 FT 123.7 ;119-138 BLW 7500 FT 123.7 ;139-191 BLW 8500 FT 124.1 ;119-138 7500-14500 FT 124.1 ;192-263 7500-12500 FT 124.9 ;058-118 BLW 10500 FT 126.8 ;058-118 10500 FT & ABV 126.8 ;119-138 ABV 14500 FT 126.8 ;139-191 8500 FT & ABV 126.8 ;192-263 ABV 12500 FT 128.65 ;340-079 ABV 5500 FT
PHOENIX DEPARTURE: 119.2 ;319-057 7500 FT & ABV 120.7 ;319-057 BLW 7500 FT 123.7 ;119-138 BLW 7500 FT 123.7 ;139-191 BLW 8500 FT 124.1 ;119-138 7500-14500 FT 124.1 ;192-263 7500-12500 FT 124.9 ;058-118 BLW 10500 FT 126.8 ;058-118 10500 FT & ABV 126.8 ;119-138 ABV 14500 FT 126.8 ;139-191 8500 FT & ABV 126.8 ;192-263 ABV 12500 FT 128.65 ;340-079 ABV 5500 FT
 
Wouldn't a Phoenix Class B chart be a lot more detailed than a regular sectional? If you don't have one already, it might be wise to get one for flying around the area.
 
dtbecker said:
Oh ok this makes sense. Thank you for the reply.

I figured a pilot could basically say "Phoenix Approach, N24D, VFR with a request"

Then respond "N24D is over Deer Valley, 7500 ft, requesting clearance through the Class Bravo AND the VFR transition enroute to Chandler."

This does make for a rather lengthy request. I could divide this into two calls and make it shorter though. I do know I need a specific clearance to enter the Bravo. I doubt I could be cleared for the transition but not cleared through the Bravo (because that wouldn't even make sense).
Click to expand...

Don't worry about brevity or taking up air time. The AIM (4-2-1b) says "Use whatever words are necessary to get your message across." Plain English works just fine.

Bob Gardner
 
There are a huge number of students flying around PHX airspace due to the volume of flight training here. I’m guessing you’ll sound pretty good compared to what they’re used too! :)
 
Magnetic course, or sector around PHX? One is the way you are flying, the other is where you are with respect to the airport. There is quite a difference.
 
champ driver said:
Wouldn't a Phoenix Class B chart be a lot more detailed than a regular sectional? If you don't have one already, it might be wise to get one for flying around the area.
Click to expand...

bobmrg said:
Don't worry about brevity or taking up air time. The AIM (4-2-1b) says "Use whatever words are necessary to get your message across." Plain English works just fine.

Bob Gardner
Click to expand...

I looked over the chart some more and I know what to do now. Once I got that it was magnetic course and to reference the Chart Supplement based on the course and altitude I know who to contact. Of course, if you contact the wrong person they will give you the correct frequency, but it saves the controllers time if I know who to contact the first time. I have the updated Phoenix TAC Chart and the updated sectional. Thanks to everyone who responsed. Maybe this thread will help someone who also wants to learn more about the Phoenix Class Bravo.
 
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